British Build! - RT4WD Time Attack Build! - TWIN CHARGED

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Comments

  • PrennroPrennro Council Member
    Cheers Back to ya. Can't comprehend how the jackson blower will keep up with the boost from turbo, but I'm sure the technicalities is over my head anyway. Cool pics from the show tho. I do know ur gonna need a starter. ;)
  • Apologies if it was touched on already, I haven't scoured through all of the thread yet, but I'm wondering is there going to be some sort of bypass setup built for all of this or are they both going to be running all the time, though with the compact nature of stuff, plumbing on that might be a bit difficult. Just seems like heat management will be a large concern here.
  • klumklum Senior Wagonist
    so much yes in this thread im so surprised i see i share insane wagon goals with someone on here! i hope to catch up to you now that i got my life back on track cheers mate
  • Prennro wrote: »
    Cheers Back to ya. Can't comprehend how the jackson blower will keep up with the boost from turbo, but I'm sure the technicalities is over my head anyway. Cool pics from the show tho. I do know ur gonna need a starter. ;)
    Apologies if it was touched on already, I haven't scoured through all of the thread yet, but I'm wondering is there going to be some sort of bypass setup built for all of this or are they both going to be running all the time, though with the compact nature of stuff, plumbing on that might be a bit difficult. Just seems like heat management will be a large concern here.

    It will work fairly well. The Data graphs will look like it has a sort of "Twin Turbo" Setup. The Charger will take care of the low RPM Range up to about 4000rpm, then the turbo will take car of the 4000rpm range and up. So the charger will peak at about 8 psi (currently setup for 10psi - but will dial it back) at around 3500rpm, then the turbo will take over and peak at 14psi.

    The compressed air thats forced into the charger will just be re-compressed again. so 8 psi from the charger, 14 psi from the turbo - should see 22 psi. I already understand the charger will be the restricting part - at which point, we just force more air through it!

    plumbing it is fairly easy. JRSC Kits from factory came with the MAP Sensor located on the throttle body, before the charger, So the ECU Sees Vacuum. My Map Sensor has been re-located to the plenum after the charger - so it sees boost. So there really is no issue there. it will just appear to be a boost spike in the Data Logs when the turbo begins to spool.

    BUT! i aim mainly doing this to "Be Different". Its amazing how much i have been challenged by "Tuners" Who say i would make more power with just a Turbo. But this method will get rid of any turbo lag and just been hella responsive
  • I am not a turbo guy but I doubt that 22 PSI math thing. If your turbo is getting air at vacuum or at 8 PSI I think still it makes 14 PSI and no more. Turbo guys comment?
  • PrennroPrennro Council Member
    Thx for the explanation and I love the reason justification "just to be different." I applaud the commitment on the build and can't wait till its finished and see the data on power curve, boost, intake temps and overall feedback on driveability. Keep at it!
  • I am not a turbo guy but I doubt that 22 PSI math thing. If your turbo is getting air at vacuum or at 8 PSI I think still it makes 14 PSI and no more. Turbo guys comment?

    Nope, Gizmo is pretty much right. The math is a little funky in a twincharger setup, and the setups are rare enough that you don't see as much data out there as with just a supercharger or a turbocharger. But basically you're feeding compressed air into the supercharger which is gonna compress it even more, like Gizmo said, though honestly I wouldn't be surprised if he sees more than 22psi out of it because it's not just straight math like that either. A 10 psi turbo feeding a 10 psi supercharger nets more than 20psi. That depends on efficiencies and such but yeah since he's not doing a bypass on them he's gonna have hella boost when it gets up there. I just hope the internals can take it. And man I would so be running that on some ethanol just for fun. At least for a dyno pull and a few laps around the track.
  • OK thank you for the explanation. That is good to know.
  • Nope, Gizmo is pretty much right. The math is a little funky in a twincharger setup, and the setups are rare enough that you don't see as much data out there as with just a supercharger or a turbocharger. But basically you're feeding compressed air into the supercharger which is gonna compress it even more, like Gizmo said, though honestly I wouldn't be surprised if he sees more than 22psi out of it because it's not just straight math like that either. A 10 psi turbo feeding a 10 psi supercharger nets more than 20psi. That depends on efficiencies and such but yeah since he's not doing a bypass on them he's gonna have hella boost when it gets up there. I just hope the internals can take it. And man I would so be running that on some ethanol just for fun. At least for a dyno pull and a few laps around the track.

    Yes, it does get a little Funky! Im sure the Math and Data that will eventually be collected will clear this up. But a tuner i spoke to said, basically, if the charger produces for example 10psi, turbo produces 10psi, you should see at least 20psi! it all gets very funky aha! But i cant wait to get it sorted and running.

    I am planning to run Water/Meth injection (Providing it doesn't mess with the rotors!) E85 is a VERY rare thing in the UK currently, the nearest place that stocks it is a 2.5 hour drive from me - so not that easily accessible. so Race Fuel might have to be an option.
  • Awesome, glad to see you'll be running some water/meth in there. If everything holds together you should see some fun results.

    For some further info on twin charging, the pressure ratios multiply, instead of it just being an addition of the straight PSI numbers. So if you know your pressure ratios you can figure out your PSI from there. Feeding 14 into that 8 though, I'd bet you see 30lbs out of that supercharger, and it'll definitely be working to smash down that heavier air. So the cooling you have in mind will definitely be needed.

    I'm sure you'll know more once you get it all together and start with tuning. It'll definitely be interesting to see what the various combinations can do. For instance if you lessen the turbo and have more supercharger off the line, just how it'll perform. I guess as far as your max boost, that's just gonna be what it is, but there's definitely some fun in this setup to further control where it comes in. Can't wait, tremendous work you're doing here.
  • AbideAbide Council Member
    http://www.d-series.org/forums/forced-induction/217609-d16z6-crx-twincharge-build-buick-m62.html when it's done right it can be magical, this is one of my favorite builds on DSO and it looks like a monster to drive. I think you might be after a little more power though, should be awesome.

    I'm curious how that wagon on wagon action was towing? Speeds/hills/braking/power?
  • Abide wrote: »
    http://www.d-series.org/forums/forced-induction/217609-d16z6-crx-twincharge-build-buick-m62.html when it's done right it can be magical, this is one of my favorite builds on DSO and it looks like a monster to drive. I think you might be after a little more power though, should be awesome.

    I'm curious how that wagon on wagon action was towing? Speeds/hills/braking/power?

    Ill hold my Hand up...I didnt actually tow the wagon to the show. Due to Legal reasons and UK Road laws etc and not wanting to risk my fully clean license. I had a family member with the correct license to tow the Wagon to the show, But because of how the show worked...I had to tow the wagon into to the show using my other wagon! So it turned LOTS of heads as i rolled in which was awesome, which is why the wagon is hitched to the wagon....

    I did however beginning of the year Tow the wagon to be welded, a good 20 miles from home. and it towed perfectly fine! (as in this video - https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xsh2vFNy4ng) i also give the towing wagon a review aha! could do with a Low blow boost setup to help it get up to speed as its a big slow...


    BUT! i do plan to get the correct license next year, which should then legally allow me to tow the wagon with the wagon!
  • Well ill be Damned. The wagon got picked for number 1 out of the top 3 cars t the JAE Show last weekend...

    https://www.heavyset.co.uk/japanese-auto-extravaganza-2015/

    Not bad for a car that has no brake lines, fuel lines, wiring aha
  • Congrats! I totally agree and I cannot wait to see what this will put out on the dyno!
  • GizmoGizmo Wagonist
    Small mention and picture in the latest copy of Banzai...


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  • Excellent! And above a random pickup truck!
  • GizmoGizmo Wagonist
    Got the bulkhead fittings in.


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    Also started to fit the main fuel feed line. using AN6 fittings and PTFE Fuel line.
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    :top:


    So i want to Bin the massive heater boxes from behind the dash, but i still wanted to run a heater for demisting purposes. So i looked at lightweight kit cars heater boxes, but for £120 for one that would be suitable for my needs.


    So cue this...


    £5 Tin Lunchbox
    £5 Aprillia RSV Cooling Fan
    £15 Mini Cooper Heater Matrix
    £10 in Misc Fittings


    Equals. £30 Kit Car heaterbox!


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    Still to finish it...
  • That's some badass DIY right there.
  • AbideAbide Council Member
    That's pretty flippin fantasic. there's a ton of room to be gained just by swapping the evap core for the normal duct. I cant imagine what kind of room you have to put stuff with that much removed now.
  • GizmoGizmo Wagonist
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  • GizmoGizmo Wagonist
    More updates on the heater...


    My goal was to make this a "Weld Free" build. So that provided some challenges to keep it Low-Cost.


    I plan 5 ducts on my box, 3 to feed the windscreen (Center, Left and Right) and 2 vents to feed the far left and right vents that service the front door window.


    So after a trip to several DIY Stores, I found some suitable couplings for the ducts, but in a rather small 32mm side. I really wanted 2". So, i decided to use 2" plumbing waste pipe, then using some L Brackets from some Alloy angle stock i had in the metal bin. Unfortunatly, my hole cutters where made of utter cheese! so i had to resort to cutting the holes out with a die grinder...


    Riveted in place, and then covered in 2-3 layers of Foil tape to keep it air tight.


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  • AbideAbide Council Member
    Gaffer taped! Now it's a real race car.
  • GizmoGizmo Wagonist
    Heater 99% Finished.


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  • Sexy DIY!!
  • GizmoGizmo Wagonist
    Heater Mounted...


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  • So wee! So cute! Like a little lego head toaster to keep you warm. Now if only AC and Texas worked the same way.
  • GizmoGizmo Wagonist
    Did some more work on the fuel lines.


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  • 90civich90civich Band Wagon
    So wee! So cute! Like a little lego head toaster to keep you warm. Now if only AC and Texas worked the same way.
    Lego Head Toaster this just made my day...
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