You won't see any drift action from this buggy. It's being built as a "grip" car. I'm actually installing Race Logic traction control to help keep the drivetrain in 1 piece. Spinning tires, and bouncing wheelhopping tires are what lead to the easiest destruction of the drivetrain.
The 1st 2 can be somewhat easily dealt with from under the car. Sure it would be a pain in the ass to check the shimming. I spent about 3 hours getting the shimming just right, and that was with the tranny on the bench. Under the car would be a biatch. But that 3rd pic means I'll be able to do it on the bench once again, since that's the tranny case thats cracked as well. Motor/tranny's gotta come out. Fuck me.
I was driving the car up to the Honda dealership to show it to the guys in parts that have helped me a ton over the last year, getting me all kinds of Wagon parts that are either discontinued, or backordered to Japan. My son and i were at a set of lights. I decided to lean on it on the green. 1st gear rolled away nicely to about 5mph, and then I rolled the throttle to the floor. The rears started spinning, just like they always do, but this time I got wheel hop! After 1st, I floored it in 2nd and held it up to about 8,000. I then calmly drove it the remaining 5-6 blocks or so to the dealership. I did detect some gear whine which was speed dependant (not engine rpm dependant). I thought I might have hurt the rear diff. It seemed to be coming from further back.
After being inside the dealership, I came back out to the car to find a rather large puddle of oil under the front end. Right away, I knew what had happened. I only hoped that the tranny case was intact. No such luck. Matt, I'm glad I scooped up all those spare parts from you. The gears themselves are still whole. They may have some "new" wear on them from them not being closely meshed due to the split case, but it still drove properly to go up my driveway off the flatdeck when it came home, and I did drive it probably a mile or so from the incident location to the dealership parking lot.
:?
can the case be repaired ..?
or do you need to take all the gears out and get an all new case ..???? whats the chance you could strengthen the case..?
I absolutley have a ton of spare parts, so I can swap the parts to something different. That's not an issue. However, I do need to address the weakness, so kylerwho, I am interested in what you propose. Are you 100% sure that this could be done without distorting the aluminum, or will I have to have the bearing pockets and other machined surfaces re-machined to put everything back into alignment/trueness/roundness?
I suspected that the transfer case would be the weakness, but I always though the gears would strip. Upon the next incarnation of the build, the traction control will most definitely be installed and operational. Sorry guys, no more smokey (ha, ha) burnouts!
Oh, and thanks for all your well wishes guys. I was somewhat prepared for this, but it's still a minor kick in the nuts.
i can weld it without distorting it. i have welded a few b16 heads where the quench pad is on the b18c5 heads with no warping so i dont think a transmission will be a problem. i figure i could weld a few gussets where the cracks are since they are true signs of where all the stress is located.
The busted parts are out. The 1st pic I showed above was not in fact a crack. It is just a casting ledge. BUT, I was shocked at what I found when I opened things up. The gears are in really good condition for what transpired. I was expecting worse. I will not re-use them, but if you hadn't seen them when I put the transfer case together initially, you wouldn't know there's anything unusual about them.
The transfer gear bearing housing (the part that holds the shaft that the driveshaft bolts to) is FUBAR'd. Its broken in 2. I was not expecting that at all. So transfer case housing with a big crack in it, corner of the bellhousing busted off, and the transfer gear bearing holder busted in 2.
Jaker,
is this piece solid or hallow... :shock:
wondering why this all didnt bust while pushing it during the auto-cross..... at least during the spin out .. :roll:
good luck on the rebuild/Upgrade...
yeah didnt i sell u a spare t-case? it would be dope to have a t-case built out of billet alluminum that cast aluminum doesnt take much to break.... theres a shop here that has an EK that has a custom built tranny, the inner case that attaches to the motor was built from a solid hunk of alluminum it looks insane.
Time for a CNC'd transfer case. It would have to be ground out and welded at every crack and then be machined anyways if you wanted to repair. Material would be spendy and machining would be a good chunk of change but damn it would be sweet.
The hammering from the wheel hop, even though it was only for maybe a second or so was just too much for it. When I spun at autocross, the tires were just sliding along the asphalt, not the hopping, pounding that happened on Monday. I agree that a billet case would be sweet, and I'm visiting that possibility. In the meantime, I'll put it back together with the OEM stuff, and install the traction control to stop the tires spinning so violently. I'm tryin to have it back together in time for an autocross on the 4th of July.
Kyler, I don't think I'm going to proceed with the welding/bracing. Thanks for your input though.
Matt,
What's the name of the shop with the EK? Speed Factory?
and was shocked to see this:
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Look at how bloody thick that casting is. I guess it really got hammered by the wheel hop. If I do get it made out of CNC'd billet, and keep the dimensions the same, it'll be indestructable. I've got my irons in the fire on a couple of fronts right now for making these from billet.
Just cause it is billet doesnt mean it will be indestructable. it all depends on what type of material you make it out of. Personally i would try have it made from a piece of 4130. it will cost more than regular steel but will hold a huge amount of stress.
My Race Logic is the universal one with digital adjuster and launch control.
The exhaust is full 3" from the flange at the front of the engine by the dipstick all the way to the tailpipe.
Cheers for the insight on your build.
Gutted to hear what has happened to it
I'd be in for some billets if you go for a group buy / mass production.
I've seen the Racelogic in action in a 400bhp CRX both on the 1/4 and the street.
It's just one of those things that really you need to buy once you pass a certain power level as it adds so much driveability to the car.
Looks like the forum is gonna help you out with this one. Props to the HCW community
Jaker, where exactly did you get those flares? all the ones i could find were like 3-5" extension...and yours look less.
if ya could share, id truly appreciate it. gotta cut the rust outta my new wagon (turbo_tegs old CRV/GSR) and was thinking of using flares instead of completely remolding the fenders/wheel wells...
They're not a total bolt on. I massaged them with the Dremel using cutoff wheels, sanding drums, etc... Originally they had a much wider stance, but with careful trimming I got them to look the way they do now.
I am looking at the possibility of having some CF front fenders made from a mold off these fenders. That's something for the cold winter months though. Probably sometime in the new year.
I can't believe how easily that ripped apart. :shock: GL with the rebuild, and if you do plan on a mass production of the billet parts I will be interested as I am planning something special .
damn dude. I'm new here and read this thread from beginning to end. and man that sucks. jaker, you got a clean ass wagon. best of all though is it looks like you know your shit. can't wait for the updates. if you decide to get a batch of cases made, I would also be interested in one. bound to happen to me too. cheers
I am going ahead and getting the case done in billet. At this point I have no idea what the extra cases are going to cost. I am fully expecting to pay about 1K myself for the 1st one, and expect that multiples will be at least $500, maybe more. If you guys are sincerely interested, even at those prices, I'll let the guy that's doing the work know, and maybe we can get a deal worked out.
Since a few of you may be needing to do this work in the near future, and some of you already are looking for this info, here are some scans of the pages from the Helms manual on setting the lash of the gears in the transfer case. I have only scanned the pages that I personally use, since my selection of shims is rather limited, and I don't have the special tools that the Helms calls for. I pretty much focus on the tooth contact and the backlash of the output flange. This did me well on the last transfer case (the gears didn't fail), so I'm pretty happy with my methods (so far).
If anyone needs more pages, let me know. No idea when I'll get around to scanning them, but I'll do it eventually. Oh, and before someone asks, Prussian Blue is sold by Permatex in a small tube for about $5. I've used the tube I have to shim 2 transfer cases now, and I still have at least 2/3rd's of the tube left. It's also known as machinists blue, but you want the stuff that does not dry.
Comments
Your car deserves a proper photo shoot when you're finished painting it. The flares/wheels/black is crazy sexy!
i love the 'rubber' in the last pic.
how were your times from auto-cross?
Remember this quote from the RWD thread:
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But this one's the heartbreaker:
The 1st 2 can be somewhat easily dealt with from under the car. Sure it would be a pain in the ass to check the shimming. I spent about 3 hours getting the shimming just right, and that was with the tranny on the bench. Under the car would be a biatch. But that 3rd pic means I'll be able to do it on the bench once again, since that's the tranny case thats cracked as well. Motor/tranny's gotta come out. Fuck me.
I was driving the car up to the Honda dealership to show it to the guys in parts that have helped me a ton over the last year, getting me all kinds of Wagon parts that are either discontinued, or backordered to Japan. My son and i were at a set of lights. I decided to lean on it on the green. 1st gear rolled away nicely to about 5mph, and then I rolled the throttle to the floor. The rears started spinning, just like they always do, but this time I got wheel hop! After 1st, I floored it in 2nd and held it up to about 8,000. I then calmly drove it the remaining 5-6 blocks or so to the dealership. I did detect some gear whine which was speed dependant (not engine rpm dependant). I thought I might have hurt the rear diff. It seemed to be coming from further back.
After being inside the dealership, I came back out to the car to find a rather large puddle of oil under the front end. Right away, I knew what had happened. I only hoped that the tranny case was intact. No such luck. Matt, I'm glad I scooped up all those spare parts from you. The gears themselves are still whole. They may have some "new" wear on them from them not being closely meshed due to the split case, but it still drove properly to go up my driveway off the flatdeck when it came home, and I did drive it probably a mile or so from the incident location to the dealership parking lot.
Back to the drawing board.
can the case be repaired ..?
or do you need to take all the gears out and get an all new case ..???? whats the chance you could strengthen the case..?
i know you'll get it solved/fixed, but the down time sucks.
I suspected that the transfer case would be the weakness, but I always though the gears would strip. Upon the next incarnation of the build, the traction control will most definitely be installed and operational. Sorry guys, no more smokey (ha, ha) burnouts!
Oh, and thanks for all your well wishes guys. I was somewhat prepared for this, but it's still a minor kick in the nuts.
The transfer gear bearing housing (the part that holds the shaft that the driveshaft bolts to) is FUBAR'd. Its broken in 2. I was not expecting that at all. So transfer case housing with a big crack in it, corner of the bellhousing busted off, and the transfer gear bearing holder busted in 2.
is this piece solid or hallow... :shock:
wondering why this all didnt bust while pushing it during the auto-cross..... at least during the spin out .. :roll:
good luck on the rebuild/Upgrade...
Kyler, I don't think I'm going to proceed with the welding/bracing. Thanks for your input though.
Matt,
What's the name of the shop with the EK? Speed Factory?
Well I took it apart tonight,
and was shocked to see this:
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Look at how bloody thick that casting is. I guess it really got hammered by the wheel hop. If I do get it made out of CNC'd billet, and keep the dimensions the same, it'll be indestructable. I've got my irons in the fire on a couple of fronts right now for making these from billet.
wasnt sure if it was thick like that or a hallow design...
Cheers for the insight on your build.
Gutted to hear what has happened to it
I'd be in for some billets if you go for a group buy / mass production.
I've seen the Racelogic in action in a 400bhp CRX both on the 1/4 and the street.
It's just one of those things that really you need to buy once you pass a certain power level as it adds so much driveability to the car.
Looks like the forum is gonna help you out with this one. Props to the HCW community
if ya could share, id truly appreciate it. gotta cut the rust outta my new wagon (turbo_tegs old CRV/GSR) and was thinking of using flares instead of completely remolding the fenders/wheel wells...
thanks man!
They're not a total bolt on. I massaged them with the Dremel using cutoff wheels, sanding drums, etc... Originally they had a much wider stance, but with careful trimming I got them to look the way they do now.
I am looking at the possibility of having some CF front fenders made from a mold off these fenders. That's something for the cold winter months though. Probably sometime in the new year.
Since a few of you may be needing to do this work in the near future, and some of you already are looking for this info, here are some scans of the pages from the Helms manual on setting the lash of the gears in the transfer case. I have only scanned the pages that I personally use, since my selection of shims is rather limited, and I don't have the special tools that the Helms calls for. I pretty much focus on the tooth contact and the backlash of the output flange. This did me well on the last transfer case (the gears didn't fail), so I'm pretty happy with my methods (so far).
If anyone needs more pages, let me know. No idea when I'll get around to scanning them, but I'll do it eventually. Oh, and before someone asks, Prussian Blue is sold by Permatex in a small tube for about $5. I've used the tube I have to shim 2 transfer cases now, and I still have at least 2/3rd's of the tube left. It's also known as machinists blue, but you want the stuff that does not dry.