Lifting a wagon for dummies

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  • NobiZeroNobiZero New Wagonist
    Finally bought some '03 Civic 15x6 steelies and some 205/65 Firestone Winterforces with them. I'm loving the end result. The ride is so much more stable with more rubber on the road. Everyone that sees it loves it. Only rubbing I've got is on the front fender liners at full lock. I plan on fixing that with a heat gun and some persuasion later on. Here's the only pic I have so far:
    https://fbcdn-photos-c-a.akamaihd.net/hphotos-ak-xpf1/v/t1.0-0/997067_10100542817541585_8501183298139990079_n.jpg?oh=e87b4aa97d7c3cade93041a6779e3dcf&oe=54C63DAC&__gda__=1421312198_ce71cb6ee2ffe847672069990131311c
  • NobiZeroNobiZero New Wagonist
    Not sure if anyone else already discovered this yet, but first-gen CR-V's appear to have the same diameter springs as our wagons. Not sure on the height as I just took a quick peek at a '99 that came into the shop today. Another interesting tidbit, the gas tank looks very similar, and the tank straps look identical. Maybe this could be made to work for those looking for replacements.
  • I did a 1" strut spacer in the front for nearly 2" of lift up front. Then flipped and swapped left to right the rear lower control arms for a 1" lift in the rear.

    With a 195/75r14 that leaves me with a 5" fender gap in the rear and a 4" fender gap in the front. The pinch weld along the bottom of the door says I have 1/2" rake front to rear.

    Alignment came back all in spec. They said the rear is at the limit for toe adjustment. Keep in mind that the rear trailing arm bushings are shot as are most of the rest of the bushings on a 25 year old car.

    I will see what I can do about some pictures of the car.

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  • Picture of said lift.

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  • lookin good!
  • SkeletorSkeletor Band Wagon
    Ryanthegreat1 did you have to use adjustable upper control arms in the front or a camber kit in the rear?
  • No special parts needed for camber adjustment. Stock upper control arm in the front and stock upper link in the rear.

    Debating on adding adjustable parts to gain some negative camber.
  • bam-bambam-bam Council Member
    Lookin good! I only have rear adjustable upper control arms. At about 3 1/4" lift in the rear, i have to run a little bit of positive camber to keep toe straight. I've bought SPC toe adjusters but haven't installed, since I plan to add another inch-and-a-half to the lift. Waiting to do it all together.

    By the way, at 1.5" spacer in front my alignment is perfect with stock UCAs.
  • fml, i somehow stumbled upon this thread then i went through all if your page Bam and then Scrappy..i should be sleeping! but i do plan on lifting my wagon early next year and im trying to go about this without having to do tooo much mods to achieve this. i believe i'll be doing the accord/integra combo. but what im really more confused on is tire size.

    the Red RT above looks great but i want to maybe mount on like a 15x8 +0 offset to steer away from hitting the control arm if any. additional lift maybe with the extension of the top hat mod if i wanted to go any higher. dont mind cutting fenders or bumper. but i want to stay away from having to cut anything related to the 1/4 panel (comes down to tire size) definetely a lot more to read about but the tires are where im stuck at right now. any help or recommendation is appreciated!
  • MY_EEWagon wrote: »
    fml, i somehow stumbled upon this thread then i went through all if your page Bam and then Scrappy..i should be sleeping! but i do plan on lifting my wagon early next year and im trying to go about this without having to do tooo much mods to achieve this. i believe i'll be doing the accord/integra combo. but what im really more confused on is tire size.

    the Red RT above looks great but i want to maybe mount on like a 15x8 +0 offset to steer away from hitting the control arm if any. additional lift maybe with the extension of the top hat mod if i wanted to go any higher. dont mind cutting fenders or bumper. but i want to stay away from having to cut anything related to the 1/4 panel (comes down to tire size) definetely a lot more to read about but the tires are where im stuck at right now. any help or recommendation is appreciated!

    If you're going about it the way I did. (accord/integra suspension) That is as high as you can go without doing custom axles. they're pretty much stretched to the limit, I ripped a couple apart due to the severe angle they can achieve when off road.
  • NobiZeroNobiZero New Wagonist
    I'm running 205 Firestone Winterforce tires on 15x6 steelies from a '00 Civic with no rub with the Integra/Accord lift.
  • 503wagon, practically doing what you did. its just the tire size is where i hit a brick wall. im not doing any like mad offroading but i do go camping a lot or drive through snow or rain when going on my trips to like nevada. but i do want something that looks pretty mean/beefy. 15x7 is probably what im going to stick with now because i have 2 sets of those sizes.

    Nobizero: i might have missed it, what lift are you on? your car looks great just as it is in that photo. high enough off the ground for me!
  • NobiZeroNobiZero New Wagonist
    I've got the Accord/Integra lift. I went a bit more extreme in the rear by putting early 90's accord wagon front springs in the rear. It has a nose down rake and the rear is STIFF, but when I haul stuff in the back (aside from a winter car, what I primarily use my wagon for) it levels and smooths out. I got wheel spacers for the rear as well because the wheels were sticking in way too far with the lift and the handling was awful. Make sure your tie rods are good, as that was what was causing my rubbing issue I was having in the front. Once I fixed that, I have no rubbing issues at all with 205/65 r15 rubber on it. We haven't had any significant snowfall here in Southeast Mass, so I have no clue how the Winterforce tires I chose handle the elements, but for day-to-day, they're not bad. Not too noisey and seem to hold the road decently for such a chunky tire.
  • MY_EEWagon wrote: »
    503wagon, practically doing what you did. its just the tire size is where i hit a brick wall. im not doing any like mad offroading but i do go camping a lot or drive through snow or rain when going on my trips to like nevada. but i do want something that looks pretty mean/beefy. 15x7 is probably what im going to stick with now because i have 2 sets of those sizes.

    I ran 215/75/14 tires.....I had to do some "massaging" in the fender wells to make them clear. But they cleared.
  • Any more pics of this ?! I'm into how simple of a lift it is and how good it looks, I may follow suit here once I get enough time off from work. Esp with the nice alignment specs
  • 503Wagon : how necessary is it for the spacers on the trailing arm bushings? the only thing i saw that could be binding is the bushing itself if it was stock that it would twist and rip it apart faster. im running the ES bushing insert and the wishbone just spins in there when the rear is lifted. is there something else i should be worried about?

    (this is being done on my brothers car by me) i did the accord and DB rear. ive only done the 2 fronts and driver rear. i notice when i drove the car prior to the rear and at turns the front would clunk or something but i havent checked it out yet. the rear, i skipped the spacer trick, DA LCA and the notching part. has wagon rear lca and it doesnt touch when the car is lowered/compressed. i have camber kits front and rear, but the front is maxed out with a little positive camber still..maybe my eyes are crooked lol. but ill know more when it hits the alignment rack. has all new bushings and bearings + tie rods. camber arms front and rear.

    heres a pix of the front..

    157.jpg
  • Clunking in the front is probably the steering knuckle hitting the spring. That is why I did not go the Accord spring route.
  • at first when i lifted just the front and not the rear, the knuckle would hit the spring. now that the rear has been lifted, i dont hear that clunking noise anymore on turns. i finished the car today and off to alignment tomorrow.

    i skilled the DA LCA and grinding it. i also skipped the rear spacer for the trailing arm. ive driven the car around the block a few times and havent notice anything wrong..yet. ordering tires soon.

    162.jpg
  • bam-bambam-bam Council Member
    Do NOT spacer the rear pivot unless you are moving all of the suspension mounting points the same amount.
  • I'm planning on machining some strut spacers to give myself a lift similar to what Ryanthegreat1 did. Something like this:

    12.png


    Any advice is much appreciated. Thinking of doing these at about 3/4" to 1" thick. I was leaning towards flipping the rear LCAs and just using a spacer up front, but now I am considering doing spacers for all 4 corners. Anyone have any thoughts?
  • bam-bambam-bam Council Member
    You'll need roughly twice as much spacer on the rear. If you add an inch to the front strut, you'll see about two at the wheel. To get the same two inches at the rear, it will take about two inches of spacer.

    The lift in the rear from flipping the LCAs is roughly 1.25-1.5.
  • Let's not forget that the rear on an RT is already 1-2" taller than the front.

    I personally like a small amount of rake on the wagon but 2" is too much. I think I have .5-.75" of rake.
  • bam-bambam-bam Council Member
    With my current setup, I have 1.5 inch tophat spacers in the front.

    In the rear, there's a total 3.25 inches of strut lift, plus flipped lower control arms. Given the offset of the strut eye on the LCA, that's about 4.5 inches total. I only recently did the flip trick because the rear was lower than the front. That's nearly 3:1 front/rear.

    YMMV
  • Ryan you said you have been having issues with CV joints due to your lift.

    I'm wondering what the ideal lift height would be to not run into premature CV joint failure...hmmm....
  • MY_EEWagonMY_EEWagon Wagonist
    alright guys after running into a few issues (still a few ticks) but i was finally able to get my brothers car up and driving again!!

    i used this method posted here.

    stock 90-93 Accord front shocks fitted into 2 bolt top hats with DC forks. fortunate enough to find them at the pick n pull with new shocks haha. ($30)
    stock 90-93 rear shock assembly ($30)
    front no name Camber kit ($40)
    Rear SpecD camber kit ($70)
    all new front to rear ES bushing set. ($104)
    i skipped the spacing on the rear trailing arm
    i flipped the Rear LCA and did left to right, right to left. to achieve the extra lift since the car was reversed raked
    modified the front camber kit to allow more negative camber since i had a huge problem with positive camber. (still has a little bit)
    14x6 on 195/75/14 all terrain T/A BFG ($530 + mount and balance + shipping )

    tomorrow it will be going into alignment and i hope it gets it somewhat specs.

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  • Those wheels make the tires look so much bigger than they are! I am running the same setup but the white wheels seem to look smaller.
  • bkmc24bkmc24 Senior Wagonist
    Anyone try stuffing a 205-70-15 winterforce under theirs? Once we move, I plan to lift my RT so I can use the new KYB struts to lower the 2WD.
  • G.dedmoreG.dedmore Band Wagon
    i will be trying to put that tire on jane here when i get the cash
    1.jpg~original
  • Will integra dc suspension lift the Wagon 1" all around?

    I think I read that some place but I can't find it.

    I want to run 195/75/14 with about 2" lift.

    The accord suspension was too stiff for my liking on my old wagon.

    1" front spacers and flipping rear lca's is my other option.
  • Double post delete this
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