rt4wd converted to rwd can it be done?! what is needed?!
jdmeg1618
Band Wagon
i want to convert from awd to rwd i know it can be done
i have heard a few diffrent ways to do this.
i know you plug up front axles and will need a one piece drive_shaft
after that im not sure what to do about strengthen the rear end, axels, joints etc.
anyone have ideas or acutally have a rear drive set up.
Jaker I know does he has helped a bit but hasn t gotten back to me
on some other questions i had. i wanna drift my wagon and just need to really
beaf up the rear. I was thinkin using some crv components might help out with durablitity
and wear and tear from sliding does anyone agree and think that they can even be used?!
After that the transfer case and diff are the only other things to worry about,
i was thinkin of running welded diff, great for sliding but a paint to daily when your makin turns haha but that wont
bother me. One last thing the trasfer case i have no idea what to do but something probably will need to done or made up to hold in firmly in place....? Just get back to me with any help at all im a new noob and dont have much wagon info lol!! thanks guys, jeff
i have heard a few diffrent ways to do this.
i know you plug up front axles and will need a one piece drive_shaft
after that im not sure what to do about strengthen the rear end, axels, joints etc.
anyone have ideas or acutally have a rear drive set up.
Jaker I know does he has helped a bit but hasn t gotten back to me
on some other questions i had. i wanna drift my wagon and just need to really
beaf up the rear. I was thinkin using some crv components might help out with durablitity
and wear and tear from sliding does anyone agree and think that they can even be used?!
After that the transfer case and diff are the only other things to worry about,
i was thinkin of running welded diff, great for sliding but a paint to daily when your makin turns haha but that wont
bother me. One last thing the trasfer case i have no idea what to do but something probably will need to done or made up to hold in firmly in place....? Just get back to me with any help at all im a new noob and dont have much wagon info lol!! thanks guys, jeff
Comments
the answer is simple really just put in a s2k drive train lol jk good luck!
also please dont type all caps in your title.
also, it wont be done "cheap". thats a given.
jeff
jazzyjeff013@aol.com
941 779 5817 feel free to call with any help
or info!
I don't think you are going to get any links to anybody who has done this though. Most of us are content with snow drifting our 4wd wagons.
how much you wantin for the whole ca swap im acutally intersred if it wont work
bc im gettin an e30 that has custom mounts for a ca swap i just have the shell and need a motor
for that so let me know give me all the specs on motor and all is it a complete swap?!
thanks again jeff 941 779 5817 feel free to give me a call im out of fl!!
i acutally was thinkin about doin the ca swap with 240 rear or something like that
You can't easily use the rear end from the S2K or Nissans because the FD ratio (ring and pinion in the rear diff) will be out of whack for the CRV or Wagovan transmisssion. The internal gearing for the transfer case of both Honda 4wd trannies is set around the 2.529/2.533 ratios of the Wagon/CRV rear diffs. You'd end up running in 3rd gear to approximate the speed you'd get in 2nd with all the Honda stuff.
The Wagovan RT4WD rear diff will easily accept the OBX and most other LSDs with a few modifications. The only issue will be the inner joints of the axles. The FWD D series LSDs have a slightly longer spline on the driver's side than the passenger side, and the Wagovan rear axles are the same length. So effectively, the Wagovan axle on the driver's side will not be long enough to seat the clip on the end of the inner joint. I had a custom set of axles made by DSS for a couple reason:
1st was this problem with the inner joint length, 2nd is the fact that the Wagovan axles are rather dimunitive in their dimensions, and likewise in strength. 3rd, the outer joints on said axles are too small as well. My axles are D series FWD inner joints, with FWD Civic/Integra outer joints (much larger than the CRV/Wagovan outer joints) and custom length axle shafts. I also had wheel speed rings attached to the inner joint (instead of the outer) as there was no room inside the hub area on the trailing arms for the ring.
EDIT
Turns out the above info is wrong. What the rear axles need for inner joints is the longer stub of the driver's side FWD axle on both sides of the rear axles for the OBX diff (and probably any other FWD diff) in the RT4WD rea diff housing.
I am using CRV rear bearing/hubs on the Wagovan trailing arms (bolt on) to accomodate the larger spline on the outer joints (Civic/Integra outer joints). There was some minor mods necessary to bolt the part of the Wagovan casting that goes to the inside of the trailing arm.
I am using a 1 piece CF driveshaft (86 1/4 inches long), as my chassis is a 2WD, and I did not want to deal with mounting a center bearing (only way to do a driveshaft this long in anything but CF).
My biggest concern is also the transfer case. I am not worried about the rear diff. The way I see it, the FWD drag guys are putting 600+ horsepower through gears that are very similar in size to the gears in my rear diff (Wagovan stuff), and my diff is held in with iron caps into an iron housing. Theirs is mounted in an aluminum housing (transmission case).
The Braile Auto RWD Drift Integra used the CRV drivetrain with a B20Vtec Supercharged engine, and with the welded rear end (no diff or viscous coupling) the only thing they were breaking is rear axles, and the was right from the horses mouth: one of the mechanics that followed the car around to events, and did most all of the wrenching. I have yet to open up the extra CRV transfer case I have to see how the size of the gears compare to the Wagovan ones. Once I do that, Ill be a little more sure of my situation.
Ill type more a little later on. I have to get back to work.
thanks for the info jaker,
wagon..............4ever.......................
As you already mentioned, I sealed up the holes in my transmission where the driveshafts come out, as well as the hole where the 2WD/4WD selection shaft goes in. I used an aluminum plate on the inside of the case with a couple screws going in from the inside for the axle holes so I effectively had a little bowl with some screws in the middle of it, and then I poured Devcon Liquid Aluminum (2 part epoxy like aluminum compound that has very similar properties to aluminum when hard) into the bowl and let it harden. This seals up the holes very cleanly and semi permanently should I ever decide I really do want to go with 4WD.
The shaft that carries the gears for the output to the transfer case, as well as where the 2WD/4WD selection takes place was also modified. The selector sleeve is just like a regular gear selection sleeve for say 2nd or 3rd gear, except that there are no synchros. The sleeve engages little teeth on the gear, and the total output of the engine goes through these little tiny teeth. I was not comfortable with this. I had a professional aircraft welder weld the gear to the shaft so there would be no possibility of the little teeth failing under the load.
The exhaust is next, but I'm still in the planning stages there. I have all my supplies: 3" tubing, both stainless and regular steel, straight pipe and mandrel bends, 3" cat, 3" Coast Fabrication lightweight round muffler for resonator duties, 3" in/out oval Magnaflow muffler for the back, 3" ball/socket setup for the flex joint at the OEM location, and some V-band clamps for everywhere else. I will also set it up with a section of straight pipe to replace the cat and resonator for sites that don't have noise limitations (our local site has a sound limit of 92db). This is where the V-bands will come in really handy. I can't start welding up the exhaust until I have the motor/transmission/driveshaft/rear diff in the car. I may even wait till I've mocked up the rear sway bar so I don't have to do anything over gain once I know for sure if I'll need a rear sway bar or not.
I've had my shocks rebuilt by Ground Control (Advance Design aluminum bodied coilovers that are seperatly rebound and compression adjustable) and I had the rears re-valved for softer springs. I'm starting out with 550lb front springs and 350 lb rear springs. Rear wheel drive typically needs softer rear springs that front wheel drive. I have about 4 different rear spring rates to try and 5-6 different ones for the front. I'm also starting out with a Suspension Techniques 24mm front sway bar with the possibility of a couple other sizes depending on the handling, and I'm going with no rear sway bar till I've had the chance to drive the car in anger on an autocross course to see how it handles.
Enjoy some pictures:
Rear Tire
light, camera
aannd action...
we'll be watching
: )
helped me out so much!! also in the pics your running drum brakes for the
rear correct?! will it be ok to slide on drums in the rear?!
where did you buy that set up?1 and or get your studs extended that long
i will be running a 16x10 +38 bbs rs 3 piece wheel with im guessing a 1 inch spacer to clear
all components in the rear.
Wher are you located how much would you charge to re create this set-up.
im out fl. if anything can you give me a list of all the parts needed and the prices
of everything i will need to make this work for my wagon. every shop i call say it cant be done
and i know thats not true so thanks again for your write up this is great info!!
jeff your my wagon hero haha!! love your wheel set up,!! baller
I don't think I'll be in a position any time soon to re-create this setup for anyone. I'm getting enough grief as it is from my wife about the time I'm spending to finish my own build, and I'm not getting it done very quickly at all. I will certainly do a write up on the build sometime in the future, but I'm making no promises at all about the timeliness of this endeavour.
The studs are ARP extended studs for Honda/Acura. You may be able to retain the drums brakes in the back with a little fabrication/manipulation of the CRV or Wagon drum backing plates. I considered doing this, but had worries about the offset of the backing plate versus the hub face and didn't want to deal with it. I am going with discs in the back. You can look here for more info and pictures of how I'm doing it:
viewtopic.php?f=8&t=5748
With that exact dimension of wheel (16x10, 38mm ET), you could probably get by with a 1/2" spacer. My wheels are 18x10.5 with a 6" backspace, and I'll be running them with no spacers.
pls keep us posted. thanks
wagon.........................4ever.........................
Quoted for awesomeness.
x2
wagon..................4ever............................
Man how did I miss that one
I would hazard to guess that you'd be back to some issues with understeer, the same as FWD if you had the front LSD and the rear LSD. That seems to be the case with some of the older AWD cars. Once the technological wizardry came along to electronically vary the torque split front to rear, then they were able to make the AWD cars handle much better. I'm not in a position to implement that sort of technology on my car, and I don't want the weight penalty of AWD (2,500 lbs) imposed by the class I race in, so I decided the simple solution was RWD (2,200lbs).
Here are the adapters to bolt the North American Iron U-joints to the Honda flanges. Unfortunately they got them wrong, so they're re-doing them for me.