oxbeards steering issues (ball joints)

oxbeard

so i noticed some play in my steering and a little bit of knocking noise turing and decelereting. i thought oh... tie rods. so i bought some. which was a pain in the ass, and everything so far i had to order or go to the dealer to get.

anyway. ive changed tie rods on my eg sedan before using channel locks. pretty much no problem. i tried to replace them on the wagon today... could not get the inner tie rods to budge for the life of me.
my sedan had flat sides so if i did have the special tool to remove them i could use it. but on the wagon they are completely round. the moog replacements i bought have 6 sides so you can use a wrench

anyone had this problem? how did you get those bastards off??

one more thing i was looking to see if the play was actually in the tie rods. it looks like it may be in the steering rack itself. would i need a whole new rack?

both boots for the rack were ripped in half. you do have to have grease in the rack right?

ogwagon

Not sure about about the inner tie rod ends being round. I helped my friend replace his on his EF hatch several months ago and they were hexagonal and pretty straight forward to replace. I believe all EF/EE vehicles w/manual racks use the same part#. So maybe your rack has aftermarket tie rod ends? As far as play in the rack is concerned, you don't need to replace the whole rack. Just part#10 in the picture. It's called the rack end bushing.

BrakeExpert

Tie rod ends SUCK to change. For my EK I had to drop the LCAs. I ended up buying a big ass adjustable wrench from Sears. I know a regular wrench is fine, but the p/s rack for the EK at least required a 32mm wrench, which i used to grab the end with. I still don't know how to get that wierd washer off without destroying it, so plan to buy two new ones just in case. Now I know your rack will be smaller, but the idea is the same. The biggest pain in the ass is when you put the new boot back on, and have to put on that ...damn circlip thing thats made of aluminum and you gotta sort of...I can't explain it this late, but it sucks, so plan to spend a lot of time getting frustrated. Small hands help more than tools!

oxbeard

something else is, where the tie rod connects to the rack its turned at a downward angle. like it was crossthreaded or bent? or maybe thats just how they are idk. they werent that way on my eg.

can someone post a pic of how theirs looks? lol might be a pain in the ass since the boot is in the way. but if you happen to have a pic that would be great. something seems wrong with mine.

i was wanting to switch to power steering anyway. trying to shift, turn the wheel, and smoke a cig with manual steering is pretty straining lol

and one question wasnt answered. do i need to put grease in the rack?

doitdub

I always have a pain in the ass time with inner tie rods, I end up dropping the rack and just doing them on the bench.

oxbeard wrote:

and one question wasnt answered. do i need to put grease in the rack?

Yes....lightly coat it.

Not sure if these pics will help, but I just recently swapped out power steering for manual rack, and replaced the rack end bushing and inner/out tie rods so I snapped a few.












Hope those help a little?

oxbeard

IM EVEN MORE CONFUSED!! lol shit!
from the pics it looks like theres 2 ball joints on the inner tie rod...?
and it looks like you can take a wrench to the farthest inner part of the tie rod?
i didnt see anything hex shaped when i was looking before. just the round part. ill check again

and how about those rack bushings? i have nooo clue where they even go lol

so since you switched to manual you got some power steering stuff for me?

doitdub

oxbeard wrote:

IM EVEN MORE CONFUSED!! lol shit!
from the pics it looks like theres 2 ball joints on the inner tie rod...?
and it looks like you can take a wrench to the farthest inner part of the tie rod?
i didnt see anything hex shaped when i was looking before. just the round part. ill check again

and how about those rack bushings? i have nooo clue where they even go lol

so since you switched to manual you got some power steering stuff for me?

Check out this diagram...

#10 is the rack end bushing...you can only get that from Honda. I'd recommend going through Majestic Honda if you have a few things you need to get to save on shipping. That diagram should also help show you what's where and connect the dots.

The inner tie rod is held onto the rack by a lock washer (you'll want to replace these) that's crimped down on the nut. The third pic shows using a punch to flatten out the lock washer, then you can undo the nut with a wrench. Also helpful...


It's tight in there, and that's why I always just remove the rack to to do inner tie rods, and rack end bushing. I can never finnagle it while on the car, but plenty of people do. Here's some shots to show you where the rack end bushing is...it's in there good and takes some work with a small flat screwdriver and needle noses to work out.





















Hope these help man. PM me about the power steering stuff, I still have it and I'm sure we could work something out if you're interested.

oxbeard

you are the fucking man for taking so many pics!
yea i think i have a pretty good idea now. although i spent most of the weekend working on things on the house and didnt have time for the car. i had sewage draining into my back yard... ::cringe:: fun

doitdub

Tie rods being assholes, and shit floating in the backyard. Sucks dude!

ogwagon

Great pics Do it Dub and great little write up you got there! You can try and explain till your fingers are bloody from typing but those pics and accompanying text are truly eye opening especially for someone who has never attempted this repair. Someone should sticky this.

oxbeard

i still havent gotten to fixing the bushing and i still have shit floating in the back yard. i unclogged it but it clogged again. the pipe might be crushed or broken. and that means i might have to dig up my back yard... EVEN MORE FUN!!!!

how hard is it to remove the rack? ive never done it before

when installing power steering.... how do i do that? lol
does it need to be bled somehow like brakes or what?

i figure it might be cheaper to pick a rack up at the junk yard than shipping it to me. hopefully ill have time to go to the junkyard this weekend.

vtecn8ive

Thanks for those pictures. Getting ready to do this (while its in the car) on my Crx tomorrow! I guess the only good thing for me is that its from California (no rusted bolts) and has new tie rods (inners/outters). God that doesn't look fun.

oxbeard

let me know how it goes. ill be doing it saturday or sunday

oxbeard

UPDATE!

i took out the manual steering rack and the old bushing. then tried getting the tie rods off with the rack out of the car... still pissing me off so i decided fugit ill just go pick up power steering shit at the junk yard. got everything for $70. i was putting it on today and realized that the framing where the rack goes has a smaller indention for the manual rack to fit in. fuuuuck...
so i gotta go back to the yard and get that tomorrow. this has been a real pain in the ass. my car has been sitting on jacks for 5 days now. IT SUCKS!!!

so anyone who wants a manual rack its up for sale. new boots and new end bushing included.
ill be putting it in the marketplace soon.

Dom

So if I were to do a "rebuild" on my rack I could just order parts from an ef correct?

oxbeard

right. are you having the same problem with rattling steering?

Dom

Nope. Just rebuilding everything

oxbeard

another update because im bored and cant finish the car because its raining right now. and im sure no one cares butttt!

i got the frame for the steering rack. it was a son of a bitch. so much shit to take off at the junk yard, then had to do the same to my car.
i got everything put back together and when putting the rack back into the car i found that one of the holes where the rack is supposed to bolt into DOES NOT HAVE ANY THREADING IN IT!
looks like the nut that was welded inside the frame came loose...
i was worried about a solution until today i decided id just drill all the way through the frame and get a longer bolt and nut and just have it go all the way through the frame.
i drilled the hole then went to home depot for a long ass bolt. when i came outside it was frickin pouring down rain so my car is still out of commission.
the neighbors are bitching my car has been on jacks so long and a guy from the city came by and said i had to fix it in 2 days or ill get a fine... FUCK YOUUUU!!!

im starting to wonder if it was worth it. we'll see when i finally drive it again i suppose

vtecn8ive

Not that you want to hear it, but my replacement went smoothly :P

That sucks about your misfortune! Good luck.

doitdub

oxbeard wrote:

i got everything put back together and when putting the rack back into the car i found that one of the holes where the rack is supposed to bolt into DOES NOT HAVE ANY THREADING IN IT!
looks like the nut that was welded inside the frame came loose...

I'm trying to picture this, and I think the same thing happened when I did mine in the CRX. I ended up tapping the hole and using a bigger bolt. It sucked, but it's good now.

Good luck.

Swipe'd

ugh im so not looking forward to doing this swap. my passenger side has play in it, while im driving at higher speeds the wheel shakes... i think im going to be lazy and swap my rack from my crx shell (has brand new inner and out tie rods + a quaife quick ratio steering rack) < will it fit?

Jaker

The manual rack from my 1989 Civic Hatch (Quaife equipped) swapped into the Wagon manual subframe no problem. Can you say 2.4 turns L2L? It's now in the front of my Wagon using the power steering subframe with some minor mods so that should I decide I need power steering, at least I won't need to change the subframe.

oxbeard

car is done!!!

steering is smooth as eggs now. only have to use 1 hand to turn the wheels even at slow speeds. which is good because i need one hand to finger my pussy. lol

there is 1 problem though. it feels a little loose. i took it back apart and looks like the slack is in the outer tie rods. seems like the ball joint in it is ok. looks like it the bolt is moving around in the hole. i put it on pretty tight. whats the dealio?

B18C5-EH2

Dude I'm sorry I have no tech to offer, but I just had to tell you I was literally laughing my ass off with the shit that you say. The title itself made me click with great interest.

...and yes inner tie rod replacements are complete cumdumpsters. I'd rather swap all four corners of shocks/springs, install camber kits and align the shit rather than dick around with inner tie rods.

oxbeard

glad it was good for a laugh

oxbeard

i put new outer tie rods on today. much tighter

while doing so i noticed my ball joints are shit. i cant wait until everything is golden and brand new.

i did some searching and didnt find any how tos on replacing ball joints. so how do i replace those bitches??
doitdub, hook a nigga up with pics

another thing is, while driving i can hear a scraping, grinding noise. im thinking brakes but im not sure what is causing it. while putting the tie rods on i was turning the wheels while off the ground. it feels like the calipers arent letting all the way off. the calipers are brand new. i had this sound going on before right after i replaced the calipers then it went away. but now after doing everything with the steering its back.

how do i fix this?

ogwagon

oxbeard wrote:

i put new outer tie rods on today. much tighter

while doing so i noticed my ball joints are shit. i cant wait until everything is golden and brand new.

i did some searching and didnt find any how tos on replacing ball joints. so how do i replace those bitches??
doitdub, hook a nigga up with pics

another thing is, while driving i can hear a scraping, grinding noise. im thinking brakes but im not sure what is causing it. while putting the tie rods on i was turning the wheels while off the ground. it feels like the calipers arent letting all the way off. the calipers are brand new. i had this sound going on before right after i replaced the calipers then it went away. but now after doing everything with the steering its back.

how do i fix this?

Make sure the backing plate isn't making contact with the rotor as the wheel is turning. If it is, just bend it back.

leWolf

Good thing for me I only have one bad ball joint!

doitdub

oxbeard wrote:

i put new outer tie rods on today. much tighter

while doing so i noticed my ball joints are shit. i cant wait until everything is golden and brand new.

i did some searching and didnt find any how tos on replacing ball joints. so how do i replace those bitches??
doitdub, hook a nigga up with pics

Check out my build thread in member rides. Page 2 I think shows where I replaced mine. Hope that helps.

P.S.I Garage

This write up totally helped me today. I was in the process of replacing the inner tie rod, and stopped to check for info when I found your thread. Thanks oxbeard and doitdub for all the info. I have a new bushing on order with the local Honda dealer.

doitdub

Good to hear!