RT4wd EF carrier bearings / center bearings / driveline vibration SOLVED

Hi Everyone.

As anyone who owns an RT4wd wagon is probably aware, driveline vibrations are the devil. Luckily Rockford Driveline came to the party and now sell replacement U joints (430-10C is the part number), however that only solved part of the problem.

First, a bit of an explanation of what's going on. This 3 piece prop shaft is designed to be inline, where there is no designed angle of the U joints. Over time, this causes the needle bearings inside the caps of the U joint to wear a notch on the point where they spend all of their time positioned. This isn't a big deal, until you consider that the carrier bearing housings also sag over time, or in more extreme cases can tear. This creates an angle at the U joint, which means the u joint no longer spends all of its time on center, instead it 'pops' in and out of its worn center position and creates a nasty vibration. Also if the center bearing has sagged to the point where it's no longer suspended by the rubber (instead the inner section is touching the outer section) then the vibrations become much more noticeable.

Here's an example of a worn out carrier bearing housing:

47895616001_390afc963e_z.jpg

So there's two things here. Replace the U joints to remove the worn needle bearings, and replace the carrier bearing housing to re align your prop shaft angles. Unfortunately your only option for the carrier bearing housing was to find another used less clapped out example, now you have the choice to instead buy a set of these:

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To purchase a set, please see below sale thread:

https://www.civicwagon.com/showthread.php?21001-EF-RT4WD-carrier-bearings&p=237705#post237705
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Comments

  • superhatchsuperhatch Moderator
    I'm in. Let me know about payment.
  • OneBadRT4WDOneBadRT4WD Band Wagon
    I am in as well. Do you have any clue how much shipping would be to the United States? I know things can escalate quickly with customs / duties / etc.
  • mr_sp33mr_sp33 Wagonist
    Shipping to the US will be approx 60$.

    I'll update this post with payment details when they're in stock and ready to ship.

    Thanks for the interest!
  • truckslammertruckslammer Moderator
    I am interested as well. Great work!
  • arries289arries289 Wagonist
    I would def be in on a set as well. I am pretty sure mine are worn as well. Please update when available. Thank you for making this effort!
  • mr_sp33mr_sp33 Wagonist
    First batch of the CNC'd center housing arrived on Friday:


    47938394716_6f2e9b9585_z.jpg


    47938371717_b04dc1d918_z.jpg


    Still waiting on a couple more bits but they're coming along... :)
  • superhatchsuperhatch Moderator
    Yay! Love to see innovation for the wagons. This is a great thing you're doing for the community and I for one am super excited!
  • arries289arries289 Wagonist
    Super cool!
  • mr_sp33mr_sp33 Wagonist
    Last of the parts are in. Time for assembly :)


    47968427687_559366bd3b_z.jpg
  • OneBadRT4WDOneBadRT4WD Band Wagon
    Awesome! Looking good man!
  • mr_sp33mr_sp33 Wagonist
    Please see first post for UPDATE. Due to the amount of interest, I'm now taking pre orders so people can guarantee their set.

    Also, housing assembled... Off to powdercoat next:

    47982720217_728598fd2b_z.jpg
  • OneBadRT4WDOneBadRT4WD Band Wagon
    PM sent, let's do this!!!
  • arries289arries289 Wagonist
    PM sent for shipping quote~
  • mr_sp33mr_sp33 Wagonist
    Pm's replied :encouragement:
  • mr_sp33mr_sp33 Wagonist
    Another set sold, post updated.
  • mr_sp33mr_sp33 Wagonist
    Outer housings back from powdercoat:

    48015352446_a143b23bc7_z.jpg
  • ThefakecalebThefakecaleb Band Wagon
    Pm sent! Please check inbox!
  • mr_sp33mr_sp33 Wagonist
    Pm sent! Please check inbox!


    No probs, i've sent you a PM.
  • mr_sp33mr_sp33 Wagonist
    Updates:


    My vacuum degassing chamber arrived. Set it up and had a go and worked good. This is to remove some small bubbles i was noticing that rose to the surface of the prototype ones i did early on while it was setting.


    48027489976_b68e852b1f_z.jpg


    Couple of pics of it pulling bubbles out of the urethane:


    48027608862_e33e160aac_z.jpg


    48027518456_c6588824d6_z.jpg


    I've got a retaining ring that needs to be welded to the CNC'd inner housings which has been delayed (was hoping to get them done this weekend, but the tooling broke unexpectedly and i'm getting them laser cut instead).


    So casting will start this time next week instead of this weekend as expected.


    Apologies guys!
  • OneBadRT4WDOneBadRT4WD Band Wagon
    No problems on the delay; I would rather have them right than have them quick!!! I am happy to see a vacuum chamber being used, that was actually a concern of mine. Top notch work mate!
  • mr_sp33mr_sp33 Wagonist
    While we're waiting patiently i thought i'd post up some photos of the R&D that went into selecting the right urethane compounds and bonding agents.

    If you're not aware, polyurethane will bond to just about anything, but the quality of the bond depends on a lot things. Through trial and error and getting feedback from various companies tech staff, I've managed to achieve a bond that exceeds the strength of the polyurethane.

    Of course, this is only part of the design. Both the inner and outer housings are overmolded in such a way that they both have mechanical bonds which also secure the molded urethane to each housing.

    48075231223_9bd0f1d57d_z.jpg

    48075295902_3b87f43d43_z.jpg

    48075192076_b5212a11d1_z.jpg

    The first two images show a less successful bond, where the urethane is stronger than the adhesion which means it can be delaminated by pulling it off. The last image shows the bond strength is better than the urethane and can not be removed without destroying the urethane. This was achieved by careful surface prep of the steel, a bonding primer, a bonding agent and then laying the urethane over the top.
  • mr_sp33mr_sp33 Wagonist
    I've got everything now and have started casting.

    Here's number 1:

    48094347576_f10509724b_z.jpg

    48094452522_46f2b11234_z.jpg

    The urethane takes about a day to set enough to de mold, so i'm casting about 1 per day from now. First 2 sets to be shipped next Monday, and the third a couple of days after that.

    Watch this space :)
  • bam-bambam-bam Council Member
    Nice work, man. I stay away for a couple years, now look what you guys are into!
  • OneBadRT4WDOneBadRT4WD Band Wagon
    Awesome!!! Still looking good! They almost look too good to put on the car haha!
  • arries289arries289 Wagonist
    I can't wait to hear some user feedback on this! Great job.
  • thestzathestza Wagonist
    amazing work -- interested in a set of these if there is still room / some available
  • mr_sp33mr_sp33 Wagonist
    bam-bam wrote: »
    Nice work, man. I stay away for a couple years, now look what you guys are into!
    Awesome!!! Still looking good! They almost look too good to put on the car haha!
    arries289 wrote: »
    I can't wait to hear some user feedback on this! Great job.

    Thanks guys, pretty happy with how they're turning out. Looking forward to sending them out.
    thestza wrote: »
    amazing work -- interested in a set of these if there is still room / some available

    Sure is, check the first post and shoot me a PM with your address and i can get you a quote with shipping. :cool:
  • mr_sp33mr_sp33 Wagonist
    Starting to get some momentum. First set will be shipped this arvo if i can get to the post office before it closes.


    One thing i'll note is that there are still a few small air bubbles that seem to be introduced when it's poured and rise when it sets, i just can't seem to avoid them (even with degassing). They're only small so they wont affect performance but you'll notice them on the top side of the casting.


    48116665392_3b02ce32c3_z.jpg


    Super keen to send these out :)
  • mr_sp33mr_sp33 Wagonist
    First two sets shipped.:cool:
  • arries289arries289 Wagonist
    mr_sp33 wrote: »
    First two sets shipped.:cool:

    I can't wait to get some feed back from these folks on fitment, etc.!
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