Car starts up but immediately stops. Need some ideas
I've only had my car back since saturday.
Drove it the last three days to work.
All three days have been hot, humid, and rainy.
All three days at some point, starting the car, it will start up but stop immediately or within a second.
Couple of patient tries then she fires up and runs like a champ.
Last night on the way home I lost power and the car stopped.
Had my wife's forester pull me home since I was almost there...
Now it's time to get a game plan together.
One friend suggested spark as being the culprit, blaming the coil or ignition in some way.
Another friend claims it could more likely be fuel, since the car set for 5 months the fuel filter could very well be clogged or the fuel pump might have gone out.
My Haynes manual suggests to check ignition parts and connections for failure first, then check fueling components, specifically fuel filter and fuel pump, then lastly intake maniford or throttlebody gasket.
I want to get a gameplan together.
I was gonna pickup a few things at autozone or advanced this evening.
Air Filter, new plugs, coolant to top of the resevour, and most importantly a new fuel fiter since all these components are very very old i figure replacing them is a must and doing the fuel filter might actually solve the problem.
If replacing those does not solve the problem, i'm was planning on checking all electrical connections then pulling the dizzy cap to check for moisture.
Listening to the fuel pump to make sure it's on.
Then, maybe pressure testing the intake manifold...
What does everyone think, what could be wrong and what do i need to check or replace in what order?
Thanks for the support as always!
Drove it the last three days to work.
All three days have been hot, humid, and rainy.
All three days at some point, starting the car, it will start up but stop immediately or within a second.
Couple of patient tries then she fires up and runs like a champ.
Last night on the way home I lost power and the car stopped.
Had my wife's forester pull me home since I was almost there...
Now it's time to get a game plan together.
One friend suggested spark as being the culprit, blaming the coil or ignition in some way.
Another friend claims it could more likely be fuel, since the car set for 5 months the fuel filter could very well be clogged or the fuel pump might have gone out.
My Haynes manual suggests to check ignition parts and connections for failure first, then check fueling components, specifically fuel filter and fuel pump, then lastly intake maniford or throttlebody gasket.
I want to get a gameplan together.
I was gonna pickup a few things at autozone or advanced this evening.
Air Filter, new plugs, coolant to top of the resevour, and most importantly a new fuel fiter since all these components are very very old i figure replacing them is a must and doing the fuel filter might actually solve the problem.
If replacing those does not solve the problem, i'm was planning on checking all electrical connections then pulling the dizzy cap to check for moisture.
Listening to the fuel pump to make sure it's on.
Then, maybe pressure testing the intake manifold...
What does everyone think, what could be wrong and what do i need to check or replace in what order?
Thanks for the support as always!
Comments
Getting a new cap.
My shopping list is made up:
Fuel Filter
NGK Plugs
Air Filter
and Dizzy Cap! :-)
I bet mine is cracked or something, looks pretty old and nasty, better now than later.
I'll make sure the rotor is rust free, thx again!
My sister had that problem with her 2wd wagon.
I'll not count it out, we'll see.
That might indicate burnt ignition switch contacts.
I'll update you after I work on it tonight for sure.
replaced dizzy cap
fuel filter
coil
then was going to replace the plugs and when i pulled the 2nd closest plug wire to the dizzy it was full of oil!
yuck...
I guess this is probably why she's not running...
will pick up valve cover gasket and new SPARK PLUG gromets before continuing with replacing my plugs.
I will keep everyone updated.
cylinder 3 seems to be a culprit to everyone when it comes to this problem.
except me.
i have it in all 4 cylinders
It's cool though, gonna use this weekend to pull the valve cover, sand and repaint it.
It was ugly and chipping anyway.
lol, was starting to look like the clear coat on a dodge neon!
I'll put new valve cover gaskets, spark plug groments, plug wires and then install my new plugs.
At least she'll be nice and tuned up.
Got it back together put on new plugs and wires, and she fired right up a bit of smoke out the exhaust, i suppose to burn off the oil since every plug i pulled was ABSOLUTELY SOAKED IN OIL!
Anyway ran like a champ, let her idle then took off to work, 3 or 4 miles later and she lost power just like before and left me on the side of the road... felt exactly like before.
I haven't pulled the plug yet but i wonder... COULD OIL BE GETTING ON THE PLUG FROM SOMEWHERE ELSE???
Maybe a crack in the head... is that possible... when she runs she feels great.
This is such a bummer.
Would love some feedback.
I had to leave her on the side of the road, i'll drag her home this evening and pull her plugs when i get a chance.
The oil in the spark plug hole is either the tube seal on the valve cover or the rocker o-rings. Regardless, both are relatively easy fixes.
Hope you get the ol wagon back to its previous condition.
You are a freak'n hero dude!
Thanks for responding so quick... a guy mentioned earlier about the main relay, i didn't even know where it was located.
Don't know much about fixing honda's of all the one's i've owned this is the only one that ever didn't run.
Go Honda!
Anyway, thx again to everything i'm gonna do some investigating this even and i'll let everyone know what i came up with...
Thought i was gonna need a new motor for a sec there and was kinda freaking out inside.
Thx everyone!
I can hear what seems to be the *click* from the main relay so I guess it's fine...
But I did pull the plugs, wet with oil everyone and fouled out...
So... I pulled the valve cover and checked to make sure the plug seals were seated correctly, they didn't look deformed at all, so i cleaned em off and put it back on being careful not to over tighten.
I put new plugs it, same deal, wouldn't even start, pulled the plugs, all of them had oil on the threads but the 2nd plug from the dizzy was soaked in oil...
My dad helped me pull the car home last night.
This morning I called my friend, he says unless those seals are not sealing correctly, it almost sounds like a crack in the sleaves themselves, he said it would seem unlikely though becuase that is very very rare and that i should clean them out so they are oil and moisture free, then do my best to visually inspect them for cracks.
He said It might be a good idea to source a new head or motor with the amount of miles mine had 230,000 on what appears to be an original motor.
What does everyone think, it's almost like there is standing oil in that one cylinder, i can tq the plug down and pull it right away not even trying to start the car and it'll have oil on it.
My suggestion is to completely clean the spark plug tubes. Get some brake clean from autozone etc and spray it down in the plug tube(not too much though). Reinstall everything and start the car. Check which plug is oil soaked and remove the injector harness and spark plug from that cyl. Grab a helping hand and have someone else start the car (it'll run rough on 3 cyl's)while you look down the spark plug hole with a shop light (watch out for oil spray). This may give you a better idea where the leak is coming from. hth
Got it all apart, had brake cleaner and cleaned everything but didn't have time to reinstall.
I'll keep you updated, might have a bit of time tomorrow morning before work to play with it.
I just hope i messed something up before and everything will be fine when it's back together, but somehow i really doubt it.
Thx for your time and help.
Had 2 qtz of oil too much in it, yikes!
No I didn't do it, but I fixed it.
Cleaned and redid gaskets with honda bond, no more oil on my plugs! yay!
Blowby from too much oil???
Verified every plug was getting good spark.
Figured out that the main relay really was bad, pulled the lower dash out and located the relay, a couple of soders look bad to say the least, i'm ordering a new one today should be in within a few days.
Hopefully she'll run and all this talk of a new motor will fad away and we'll be pulling our parts car home soon *fingers crossed*
down near the air intake box there is a couple of relays or plugs against the fender wall between the intake box and the headlight assembly on the pass side, looks like there might have been a small electrical fire down there, didn't notice it before.
I thought those were for the ac but i wonder if it's related, maybe it messed up a ground or something...
any thoughts??? what are those wires for???
G1 is the large ground cable that goes from the negative battery terminal, bolts to the inner fender, then ends bolted to the clutch cable bracket on the transmission. This one is really important!
G201 is right in the very front corner of the car on the passenger's side, right by where the sheet metal of the fender meets the bit of metal that runs along the top of the headlight. It is a large bundle of black ground wires for: All of the passenger side front lights, windshield wiper motor, fan switch, AC switch light, and purge cut-off solenoid valve. Nothing that would keep your car from running....
G281 is one single ground wire that bolts to the bulkhead radiator support beside the headlight, it is for: condenser fan motor, radiator fan motor. Nothing that would keep your car from running.
But definitely fix this stuff! If there was some type of fire, you should double check all of the fuses in the engine and dash fuse boxes.
Here's some helpful pictures
i might be picking my parts car up soon and will be using it to mend the wiring damaged by the fire, these pix will be so important to that process, just gets things in my head straight for what goes to what.
Maybe one of these is the cuprit
i'm gonna try and pick up some starter fluid tonight and spray it in the throttlebody while trying to start they car so see what's up with the fuel, if fuel in fact is my problem.
Has almost everything I was looking for.
We got our fence up so as of last night the garage was clean to put my wife's forester in and jump the battery on the wagon and play around with it a bit.
I'm wondering if it's not the fuel pump now.
I sprayed starter fuild in the throttle body with the plate open then got in the car to start it and it started up after a few tries and pumping the gas pedal but even with the gas pedal down I couldn't keep the car for dying.
I looked in at the fuel filter and it seemed to seeping some fuel out and looked on my parts car and the fuel filter had the bleeder bolt on the out side instead of the in... now i don't think it doesn't matter but it's obviously at least not tq down right so i took it off and swapped the bolts making sure things were tq down right this time.
Here's what i noticed though, the fuel filter was full of fuel and both in and out lines were full, makes me wonder if I've got an injector problem instead.
I got it to start again just for a few seconds when my foot was pegged on the gas but it dyed.
I'm thinking about getting a fuel pressure gauge so i can see how much pressure is building in the line, if not much maybe the fuel pump is going out.
Any thoughts???
:-)
You rock.
I guess fuel pump it is.
If it's not then at least i'll not have the problem down the road.
I'm told its a pain to swap the fuel pump, have to drop the tank.
I'm going with this pump as long as you think it'll work and they still have them in stock, my budget is pretty blown right now so i'm taking a cheaper route than a honda pump... i know i know...
http://treperformance.com/i-678-honda-c ... -1991.html
need to get my car rolling i hate it setting in my garage and not coming out to play.
At least i've got some time to work on it now.
If you've got the parts car can you just take the pump out of it? In my opinion it's not very hard to get the pump out, I've done it a few times now. All you REALLY need to do is: jack the car up as high as you can, level. Take the back left wheel off. Take off the little plastic covers so you can see all of the lines and whatnot. Undo the two 12mm nuts that hold on the tank straps, but don't undo them all the way, you want the tank to hang. Loosen the straps until the tank is hanging as low as you can get it without stretching the crap out of the lines. Now you should be able to look in through the wheel well and get to the fuel pump. Still a little hard to get to, but it's totally possible. It is much easier to get the pump out if you remove the tank completely, but I feel that messing with all of those old lines is an easy way to mess something up if you're not careful.
I think i might just swap the pumps since it would be at least free, but if the pump coming out of the parts wagon is nasty mcnasty i'll order a new one.