yo my RT wagon kills fuel too. i think its cus theyre awd maybe
I thought the same thing too, but it's not all that much more imo. My hwy mpg has shown the greatest improvements overall. Make sure that your rt4wd system is working properly, check your rear differential fluid levels(and tranny fluid). Last but not least, check your brakes and make sure they aren't stuck.
I just completed some pretty extensive maintenance. I'm already getting just under 35 mpg all city. No special driving techniques; although I must be fair and say that my morning commute at 3AM is no traffic and mostly 45mph hitting maybe 2-3 red lights each way. It's a completely stock 88 RT. AWD engaged. This weekend I'm going on a 1500 mile road trip. I'll post the mpg results when I get back.
So far so good.
I drive 80 miles a day to and from work. It's wednesday and so far I am at a little over half a tank(filled up on monday morn).
Before I would be below half a tank by tuesday so I know for a fact that the mpg performance has improved.
I also got rid of the oem exhaust piping that connected the cat to the DC axle back muffler. So i hope it opened up a little more flow. At the very least it got rid of the nasty rattling that the heat shield was producing.
If you guy think you have it bad I've been getting 20mpg in my 88 rt4wd. I think I found the source of the problems with deflated wheels but then I took it on a 300 mile trip to the beach with 2 other people and a kid, full trunk, and load warrior with shit on top too I got 21 mpg. My engine is rebuilt with about 3k miles on it. I don't know what I need besides fixing my exhaust because there's a hole in it somewhere. Also, I have an intake but I don't see how that could considerably affect my mpg. So what could be my problem? I like my wagon by I'm getting sick and tired of getting shitty fuel mileage when one of the biggest reasons I bought it was for fuel economy. help me!
The winow sticker for my 1991 rt4wd read 24 city 26 hwy. First full tank I got 32.7 mpg. I have disengaged the 4wd now to see if the mileage gets any better. Running my tires at 36 psi also.
Bringing this thread back to life because I'm getting a little annoyed with my "low" mpg. I've got a 90 RT with about 250k on the stock a6. I was getting 24-26 mpg with about 80% freeway miles at an average of 73 mph. I changed the fuel filter and o2 and things pretty much stayed the same. I now have it supercharged and still get 26mpg pretty much every tank. I run synthetic oil, changed all the tranny and diff fluids, replaced the wires, dizzy is pretty new, rotor and everything looks good. I've got it in 2wd with the stock steelies and some michellins. Tires pressure is always at 34 and allignment has been done. I know I may not hit 30mpg with the SC now but even before I could never figure out why I couldn't get close to 30 mpg especially driving pretty much all highway miles. I'm currenlty using 91 octane although I may try 89 soon.
I run 4wd and put on 150+ miles per week on Pennsylvania hills and I average 26 MPG. I think you lose most of your fuel economy on your average speed of 73 mpg. What is your RPM difference between 55 MPH and 73 MPH?
I've toyed with this big time over the past few weeks. My largest gains in MPG have came with a couple simple things.
1. Minor tune up. When I say minor I mean buy some good spark plugs. I went with NGK platinums. I also upgraded my plug wires to the MSD 8.5 super conductors. Lastly I had my work do a fuel system cleaning. It consists of cleaning the throttle body. Putting a drip style detergent cleaning agent into the vacuum line right after the throttle body, letting the whole bag drip through the line while running the car at 2,500rpms as well as a detergent poured straight into your fuel tank.
2. Driving style. DO NOT EXCEED 65mph in your RT4WD wagon or you will destroy your mpg. 60-65mph is our little motors sweet spot. When accelerating don't mash the gas. Ease in and out, do not use your engine to slow you down, use your damn brakes. Which costs more, a clutch and fuel, or pads and rotors?
I personally don't drive Jane nicely. Infact I mash pretty much any time I can. So I don't drive gently but after my minor tune up my mpg have gone up 5mpg. I'm at a solid 27mpg. Keep in mind I'm running high compression pistons and premium fuel.
do not use your engine to slow you down, use your damn brakes. Which costs more, a clutch and fuel, or pads and rotors?
engine braking will however turn off your injectors hopefully decreasing consumption, but like you said. is it worth it for the fuel savings? thats a personal choice
engine braking will however turn off your injectors hopefully decreasing consumption, but like you said. is it worth it for the fuel savings? thats a personal choice
You sure about that? This is the first time I've ever heard of this.
The next time you slow down (say an off ramp) leave the car in 5th gear and let it coast, watch your tach, when it hits ~1000 rpm you will feel the ECU cut the fuel back in. Then press the clutch in before it dies (if you're coming to a complete stop). Also by leaving it in one gear you aren't wearing the clutch anymore than if you used the brakes.
Will this get you better mileage? Theoretically yes. Will you actually be able to notice at the pump? Probably not, because there are too many other variables, and having the ECU cut fuel for at most a few minutes a day isn't going to save you much fuel.
2. Driving style. DO NOT EXCEED 65mph in your RT4WD wagon or you will destroy your mpg. 60-65mph is our little motors sweet spot. When accelerating don't mash the gas. Ease in and out, do not use your engine to slow you down, use your damn brakes. Which costs more, a clutch and fuel, or pads and rotors?
It's actually somewhat difficult/unsafe to drive 60-65 on some of the freeways in SoCal. The speed limit on my 26 mile stretch to work is 70mph and is heavily used by semi trucks and gravel haulers. When you drive 60 in the slow lane faster semi trucks have to pass you, or you end up getting sand blasted by some dump truck carrying gravel you're following. If you drive 60 in the middle lane all the cell phone talking IDGAF about speed limit people going 90 will run you over. There are times when it's doable so I will make an effort to slow it down and see how it effect my mpg.
I've did a major tune up after I got the car 4 months ago; fuel filter, O2, plugs, wire, rotor, dealer done fuel system cleaning, everything.
I've read up on a lot of hypermiling techniques and while i'm not expert I drive very conservative about 80% of the time. I also used my boost gauge now to judge engine load based on the vacuum level. I've noticed when I drive 60-65 on the freeway 4th gear can get quite inefficient with any sort of incline it seems.
engine braking will however turn off your injectors hopefully decreasing consumption, but like you said. is it worth it for the fuel savings? thats a personal choice
I've been trying to get some solid answers about this for a while, but this topic probably deserves it' own thread. There's a debate about whether coasting down a big hill is more fuel efficient than leaving it in gear, as leaving in gear while coasting turns off the injectors. Ive also heard that it can change whether you have OBD1 or OBD 2.
9/10 when people claim MPG, they have no documentation to back it up. This pisses me off to no end.
I'd also like to see some proof on injectors 'shutting off'. I still don't believe this. I understand they won't be at full load when the throttle is off. But I fail to understand how a motor can stay on with injectors 'off'. Someone please provide PROOF, not hearsay...
I'd also like to see some proof on injectors 'shutting off'. I still don't believe this. I understand they won't be at full load when the throttle is off. But I fail to understand how a motor can stay on with injectors 'off'. Someone please provide PROOF, not hearsay...
If the stuff about "decelleration fuel cutoff" is true it might save more fuel to stay in gear down a long grade vs. coasting in nuetral. I don't know how to prove whether the injectors can turns off though.
Here's some of our conversation about your question Charb.
it looks like the behavior is true http://reviews.cnet.com/2300-10863_7-10009562-3.html
you'd have to make sure your car has it the car has much more mass and much more interia when at speed than the engine does when you add gravity to the equation as you would in a downhill situation the force attempting to make the motor move while there is no fuel combusting is even higher and gravity is a big force so you could keep the engine moving and over come it's friction by the force exerted on the car by gravity going dowhill so that would get u better gas mileage but still it's a parlor trick more than anything else. it will get you 0.1 to 0.2 mph more in the right situations if you drove to the top of I-15 in san bernardino and reset your MPH then coasted down in neutralk and did the same thing and reset your MPH at the top then coasted down in gear i would expect something significant but over an average tank i would expect very little and really the more important thing is engine braking
This is from the Wiki: "When coasting with the engine running and manual transmission in neutral, or clutch depressed, there will still be some fuel consumption due to the engine needing to maintain idle engine speed. While coasting with the engine running and the transmission in gear, most cars' engine control unit with fuel injection will cut off fuel supply, and the engine will continue running, being driven by the wheels. "
Of course I guess this is still all hearsay but I think the concepts make sense. I don't know how to prove it.
Tires and an alignment can make a huge difference.
Pulling off a wider, heavier tire with a narrower, lighter tire will reduce rolling friction. It's physics.
The Bridgestone RE92 LLR tire was designed with MPGs in mind. It's not going to win you any autoXs, that's for sure.
I'll give a few points on the MPG scale in my post above to the improved aero he gained by putting the trays and other sealing plastics back underneath the front of the car that the previous own lost/broke.
So, it's 12-18 mpg by putting the car back to stock. 60-70mpg isn't unheard of for the 1st Gen Insights.
I wasn't saying you'd see similar results on a Wagon, but it definitely wouldn't hurt.
jasnall, It does. I installed a wideband on my completely stock rt in prep for tuning and a swap. it leans out to the upperlimit if i let the car decelerate in gear due to the lack of fuel. stock ecu, injectors, ect.
i managed 32 mpg on my s2k in the mountains in east tn doing this. where it gets 27 on flat highway and 24 in town and 18 autocrossing lol.
you're just using the engine's drag in gear and compressing of air with no combustion due to lack of fuel to slow the car. anyone that has hondata or netptune should be able to datalog it happening with the AFRs or injector duty cycle
Tires and an alignment can make a huge difference.
Pulling off a wider, heavier tire with a narrower, lighter tire will reduce rolling friction. It's physics.
The Bridgestone RE92 LLR tire was designed with MPGs in mind. It's not going to win you any autoXs, that's for sure.
I'll give a few points on the MPG scale in my post above to the improved aero he gained by putting the trays and other sealing plastics back underneath the front of the car that the previous own lost/broke.
So, it's 12-18 mpg by putting the car back to stock. 60-70mpg isn't unheard of for the 1st Gen Insights.
I wasn't saying you'd see similar results on a Wagon, but it definitely wouldn't hurt.
The RE-92 are old as dirt. Go with the new bridgestone ecopia ep422 if you want a low rolling resistance tire that is proven to improve mpg. look them up, they're the real deal.
Comments
I thought the same thing too, but it's not all that much more imo. My hwy mpg has shown the greatest improvements overall. Make sure that your rt4wd system is working properly, check your rear differential fluid levels(and tranny fluid). Last but not least, check your brakes and make sure they aren't stuck.
I just completed some pretty extensive maintenance. I'm already getting just under 35 mpg all city. No special driving techniques; although I must be fair and say that my morning commute at 3AM is no traffic and mostly 45mph hitting maybe 2-3 red lights each way. It's a completely stock 88 RT. AWD engaged. This weekend I'm going on a 1500 mile road trip. I'll post the mpg results when I get back.
I drive 80 miles a day to and from work. It's wednesday and so far I am at a little over half a tank(filled up on monday morn).
Before I would be below half a tank by tuesday so I know for a fact that the mpg performance has improved.
I also got rid of the oem exhaust piping that connected the cat to the DC axle back muffler. So i hope it opened up a little more flow. At the very least it got rid of the nasty rattling that the heat shield was producing.
wagon...............4ever...................................
What else is there to check?
Also, driving 73mph is making your little motor work too hard. Try doing 63 and watch your MPG go up dramatically...
1. Minor tune up. When I say minor I mean buy some good spark plugs. I went with NGK platinums. I also upgraded my plug wires to the MSD 8.5 super conductors. Lastly I had my work do a fuel system cleaning. It consists of cleaning the throttle body. Putting a drip style detergent cleaning agent into the vacuum line right after the throttle body, letting the whole bag drip through the line while running the car at 2,500rpms as well as a detergent poured straight into your fuel tank.
2. Driving style. DO NOT EXCEED 65mph in your RT4WD wagon or you will destroy your mpg. 60-65mph is our little motors sweet spot. When accelerating don't mash the gas. Ease in and out, do not use your engine to slow you down, use your damn brakes. Which costs more, a clutch and fuel, or pads and rotors?
I personally don't drive Jane nicely. Infact I mash pretty much any time I can. So I don't drive gently but after my minor tune up my mpg have gone up 5mpg. I'm at a solid 27mpg. Keep in mind I'm running high compression pistons and premium fuel.
engine braking will however turn off your injectors hopefully decreasing consumption, but like you said. is it worth it for the fuel savings? thats a personal choice
You sure about that? This is the first time I've ever heard of this.
This. Last time I checked if my engine stops getting fuel it stops running.
Will this get you better mileage? Theoretically yes. Will you actually be able to notice at the pump? Probably not, because there are too many other variables, and having the ECU cut fuel for at most a few minutes a day isn't going to save you much fuel.
I've did a major tune up after I got the car 4 months ago; fuel filter, O2, plugs, wire, rotor, dealer done fuel system cleaning, everything.
I've read up on a lot of hypermiling techniques and while i'm not expert I drive very conservative about 80% of the time. I also used my boost gauge now to judge engine load based on the vacuum level. I've noticed when I drive 60-65 on the freeway 4th gear can get quite inefficient with any sort of incline it seems.
I've been trying to get some solid answers about this for a while, but this topic probably deserves it' own thread. There's a debate about whether coasting down a big hill is more fuel efficient than leaving it in gear, as leaving in gear while coasting turns off the injectors. Ive also heard that it can change whether you have OBD1 or OBD 2.
Friend has a 1st Gen Insight and he was barely getting low-40 mpg's.
Switched the tires that came on the car when he bought it used to the factory Bridgestone RE-92 LLR tires and he is now averaging almost 60mpg.
Here is a link to that tire > TireRack.com - Bridgestone RE92 LLR 165/65-14
Agreed.
9/10 when people claim MPG, they have no documentation to back it up. This pisses me off to no end.
I'd also like to see some proof on injectors 'shutting off'. I still don't believe this. I understand they won't be at full load when the throttle is off. But I fail to understand how a motor can stay on with injectors 'off'. Someone please provide PROOF, not hearsay...
What are your thoughts on this article?
http://www.frugaldriver.com/driving-technique/frugal-tip-coast-in-gear-to-save-gas
If the stuff about "decelleration fuel cutoff" is true it might save more fuel to stay in gear down a long grade vs. coasting in nuetral. I don't know how to prove whether the injectors can turns off though.
Here's some of our conversation about your question Charb.
i mean
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fuel_economy-maximizing_behaviors
it looks like the behavior is true
http://reviews.cnet.com/2300-10863_7-10009562-3.html
you'd have to make sure your car has it the car has much more mass and much more interia when at speed than the engine does when you add gravity to the equation as you would in a downhill situation the force attempting to make the motor move while there is no fuel combusting is even higher and gravity is a big force so you could keep the engine moving and over come it's friction by the force exerted on the car by gravity going dowhill so that would get u better gas mileage but still it's a parlor trick more than anything else. it will get you 0.1 to 0.2 mph more in the right situations if you drove to the top of I-15 in san bernardino and reset your MPH then coasted down in neutralk and did the same thing and reset your MPH at the top then coasted down in gear i would expect something significant but over an average tank i would expect very little and really the more important thing is engine braking
This is from the Wiki: "When coasting with the engine running and manual transmission in neutral, or clutch depressed, there will still be some fuel consumption due to the engine needing to maintain idle engine speed. While coasting with the engine running and the transmission in gear, most cars' engine control unit with fuel injection will cut off fuel supply, and the engine will continue running, being driven by the wheels. "
Of course I guess this is still all hearsay but I think the concepts make sense. I don't know how to prove it.
Pulling off a wider, heavier tire with a narrower, lighter tire will reduce rolling friction. It's physics.
The Bridgestone RE92 LLR tire was designed with MPGs in mind. It's not going to win you any autoXs, that's for sure.
I'll give a few points on the MPG scale in my post above to the improved aero he gained by putting the trays and other sealing plastics back underneath the front of the car that the previous own lost/broke.
So, it's 12-18 mpg by putting the car back to stock. 60-70mpg isn't unheard of for the 1st Gen Insights.
I wasn't saying you'd see similar results on a Wagon, but it definitely wouldn't hurt.
i managed 32 mpg on my s2k in the mountains in east tn doing this. where it gets 27 on flat highway and 24 in town and 18 autocrossing lol.
you're just using the engine's drag in gear and compressing of air with no combustion due to lack of fuel to slow the car. anyone that has hondata or netptune should be able to datalog it happening with the AFRs or injector duty cycle
The RE-92 are old as dirt. Go with the new bridgestone ecopia ep422 if you want a low rolling resistance tire that is proven to improve mpg. look them up, they're the real deal.