where to get a carb. brown top zc?

if someone could let me know where i can get one of these motors for a reasonable price, ive asked several motor places about them and none of them carry it. gomotors said they get them but only once in a while.

Comments

  • akiraboyakiraboy HondaCivicWagon.com Founder
    sorry, only black tops by me

    but there was a guy sellin a rebuilt 86-89 teg motor either in Wis or in Minn

    Davens had a carb kit
  • I got my carb'd dohc zc from Go Motors.
    It took awhile to find though. I think more places have them, but the idiots answering the phones don't know any better. I think I talked with a dozen places.
    Here's the typical conversation:
    Them: 'ello
    Me: Yes, I'm looking for an engine for my car...but its kind of rare.
    Them: Okay, whatcha lookin for?
    Me: It's a Honda dohc ZC but-
    Them: Yeah we gots 'em. They're $xxx.
    Me: I need it to be the earlier browntop ZC and-
    Them: Hold on, lemme check...Yeah we gots 'em. Browntops.
    Me: It also has to be carb'd. The came as a dual side-
    Them: These jdm engines ain't CARB approved
    Me: *sigh* Yes I know. It needs to be carbureted. It came as a either a single downdraft or dual sidedraft. I'll take either at this point.
    Them:-
    Me: Hello?
    Them: There's no such thing
    or
    Them: We gots sohc zc that have carbs. That it?
    Me: No, there is a browntop dohc zc that came carb'd. It was available in the Honda Quint around 1985-86. If you don't have one, what are the chances of special ordering one?
    Them: *click*

    So keep looking...the alternative is to get a usdm D16a1 or browntop ZC and buy a Weber carb kit for it. That's what I ended up doing anyway.
  • HaydzHaydz Moderator
    Do the carb kit...
    Can't you use the 84-87 injected brown top zc with D16A1 carb manifold and dual DCOE 40/45's? I think the dizzy would need to change as well..
  • The browntop dizzy is fine...its carb friendly vacuum advance.
    The blacktop is electronic advance and requires the ecu and mpfi.
  • HaydzHaydz Moderator
    Ahh i see, cool bananas, makes it even easier..
  • Fresh86Fresh86 Band Wagon
    i called gomotors again...they dont have any at the moment, and they dont know when theyll have some in next. hopefully soon, my 215k motor is starting to crap out.
  • Like I said, don't get hung up on getting specifically the carb browntop.

    Your other options:
    JDM fuel injected browntop ZC + Weber kit
    USDM 86-87 browntop D16a1 + Weber kit

    A good place to find D16a1 stuff cheap is the gen 1 teg group: http://www.g1teg.org/phpbb/

    Also, I'm actually considering doing a conversion from carbs to fuel injection. If I do this, my browntop carb manifold and Weber will be for sale.
  • Fresh86Fresh86 Band Wagon
    i think im actually gonna go with a jdm d15b sohc vtec obd1 swap. a shop here in phx says theyd supply everything and install it, including the carb to fi conversion, for like 2200. eventually i want to switch to a gsr swap, and my car will already be obd1 with hydro tranny, which i think will make it alot easier when the time comes :twisted: .
  • Interesting. Is this something this shop has done before?
    I only ask because you never want to be someones guinea pig and since our platform enjoys little to no aftermarket support, most places don't know much about them.
    I'm not telling you what to do...but I'd clarify a few things with the shop before taking the plunge.

    1. The newer D-series engines do not bolt into the pre 88 chassis. The main reason this is problematic is that the wagon tranny won't bolt to the d15b engine. So they use the d15b hydro tranny, which means all the mounts will need attention. We're talking engine mount fabrication(no one makes kit that I'm aware of). These custom mounts will probably involve hard welding, making your plans for a B-series swap later (which there are bolt in mount kits) a lot harder since all four stock locations have been modified. And while it may sound like your wagon will be converted to run any hydro type transmission, its not. Its still a cable actuated, just with an adaptor assembly that actuates the hydro parts. And I'm not 100% sure that adaptor can be transplanted between a D-series and B-series engine.

    2. The wiring is not like your typical engine swap wiring (moving pins, adding wires etc). Its even more work than a DPFI to MPFI swap. You'll need to install several obd-1 parts - like sensor assemblies, fuse box, speedo assembly etc that didn't come in the wagon. This is both a lot or work and money. The best route for doing this usually involves a whole parts donor car. I wonder if they have factored this into their price quote?

    3. The entire fuel system basically has to be replaced. There is some debate as to reusing anything from the old system because its designed for 5-6 psi, not 40-60psi like on fuel injected apps. And this is particularly important because any fuel "issues" have a strong likely hood of turning into a car consuming fire. Make sure they know exactly what they are doing.

    4. With all this custom work, get a concrete timeframe for completion with some accountability for delays. Its not unusual for a hard swap or problem to get pushed to the side of a shop while they figure stuff out...then other jobs come in and their focus gets sidetracked. Days turn to weeks, weeks into months. This is especially true for swaps that they quoted too little $ on for the amount of labor involved.

    6. This last point is more of a personal opinion, so take it with a grain of salt.
    The d15b is somewhat of a darkhorse in the swap world. People run it because (A.) its about the least expensive jdm engine available and (B.) its rated at a very competitive sounding peak 130hp. My problem with the vtec d15b is that its even more gutless before vtec then the more typical d16z6. If you want to go anywhere, you need to rev up into vtec...which hits hard, but only being able to develop that 130hp in a very narrow, peaky range is kind of annoying.

    Now don't get me wrong...Fuel injection, a workable ecu and the potential for easier future upgrades have their appeal. To get these features and be a little less work, I would actually recommend an 88-89 blacktop D16a1. You'll still have to deal with points 2 and 3 (and 4 really applies to any shop swap) but at least it bolts in and will have a much fatter, useable torque curve. You'll give up a little at the very top of rpm band but you won't have to go there all the time to get anywhere. With the blacktop D16a1, you'll have converted to obd-0 and can run either a pg7, pm7 or even a pm6 ecu. And an obd-0 to obd-1 conversion is mostly just wiring related and can be handled with a simple conversion harness wheever you're ready.

    Whatever you decide, stay on top of the shop. Get the answers/explanations and make sure they're not promising more than they can deliver.
  • SiWagonSiWagon Council Member
    8) Sorry got to the party late.:DI'd say stay with the 86-87 D16a1 like Davens mentioned earlier.

    1)It's a straight drop in:D
    2)NO Wiring and NO complete fuel system overhaul:D:D
    3)The 88-89 only has only 5 more hp than the 86-87
    4)Lots of speed parts for the 86-87(for the 88-89 too).
    5)The 86-87 D16A1 is virtually identical to the "brown top ZC" that blessed the 1st Generation JDM CRX Si.and the only DOHC D series engine to ever make it to the US. :twisted: :twisted:
  • 1)It's a straight drop in:D
    >>Physically speaking...True

    2)NO Wiring and NO complete fuel system overhaul
    >>The 86-87 D16a1 was fuel injected. He either has to find a replacement carb system or convert to fuel injection...which is still a lot of wiring/fuel system modifications

    3)The 88-89 only has only 5 more hp than the 86-87
    >>Yes, but the 86-87 ecu is not chippable while the 88-89 can run a chipped PM6 and making it much easier to convert to obd-1 at a later date.

    4)Lots of speed parts for the 86-87(for the 88-89 too).
    >>I don't know about lots, but sufficient

    5)The 86-87 D16A1 is virtually identical to the "brown top ZC" that blessed the 1st Generation JDM CRX Si.and the only DOHC D series engine to ever make it to the US.
    >>I don't know why, but one was rated a 113hp and the other at 133hp. Something is different.
  • HaydzHaydz Moderator
    Yeah browntop ZC is actually an almost completely different motor... ;)
    On a forum over here they took one of each motor, stripped them down and compared them.. alot of the parts are interchangable but thats about where the similarity ends...
  • Fresh86Fresh86 Band Wagon
    i talked to ANOTHER place here in phx...supposedly nation-renowned superior racing and development, they only work on hondas. they gave me a firm install price of $1000 for any d-series install including carb to fi, and $1500 for a b-series with same. they said they can get the 88-89 blacktop zc eng, trans, ecu for $1000. they also said a b16a1 front clip with lsd trans would run about 2250. i have to move cross-country in a few months, and i have to drive the wagovan, thats why im strssing over this motor thing. im moving from phoenix back to buffalo, ny, which is where i am originally from. i talked to every single swap place in buffalo, and they all refuse to do carb to fi, so i have to get it done in the 4 months i have left here. i would love the b16. id be switching to a b-series later anyway, and 3750 isnt bad for a package deal, plus they said theyd make me a custom intake.
  • SiWagonSiWagon Council Member
    Please check this guy's site.It should answer most all your D16a1 swap questions.PLUS a lot more ideas for your Wagon.
    http://muller.net/sonny/crx/
  • SiWagonSiWagon Council Member
    Had to go to Basement. :evil:
    Check out another 1 of our lost members 87 Wagon(rwpq). :twisted: :twisted: With a D16A1 @ this link:
    http://p196.ezboard.com/fhondacivicwago ... D=14.topic
    More pics of rwpq's wagon:
    http://p196.ezboard.com/fhondacivicwago ... D=17.topic
  • HaydzHaydz Moderator
    $1000 is WAY too much to pay for a blacktop, even if it does include transmission, ecu, harness etc.
  • Fresh86Fresh86 Band Wagon
    $1000 is WAY too much to pay for a blacktop, even if it does include transmission, ecu, harness etc.
    anyone have suggestions as to where in the us i could get a decent zc swap for cheap, carb or fi?
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