"Sorry that the car did not meet your expectations. I told you everything that was asked, I have only owned the car for about 5 months so did not know how much stuff was wrong with it. I never said that the car was 100% in working order and didnt feed you any lies when we discussed this car.
The car was sold as is. it is a used car so you cannot expect the conditions of a brand new car.
Hope everything works out for you"
I shouldn't "have to ask" if the windshield washer components are in place. I've purchased and sold a lot of cars before and always placed the responsibility of divulging problems (serious or minor) on the seller.
The windshield was a hazard, and the valve cover bolt was something he obviously knew about since it was tapped, and he had just done work on the motor.
My reply is that I'm taking him to small claims court. For the first time ever when buying a used vehicle I feel like I was really swindled, and I'm not going to let him get away with it if possible.
Yes I know I should have given the car a better once over and possibly negotiated there on the spot but Friday for me was literally up at 3am fly from Baltimore to Milwaukee, drive an hour into work, do 3h of paperwork, drive an hour home, pack, fly from Milwaukee to Seattle (which was delayed) and drive an hour to pick up the car. I was relying on the word of the owner which was "one of the nicest ive personally seen." and it had "receipts for new head gasket, valve cover gasket etc.[engine work]". This is why I feel like I am 50% to blame for being duped. :oops:
Anyway, time to start fixing stuff. I'll post updates as I get the car road worthy again.
Nice pics . Sucks you had to find out about all that after you bought it . But hey , you got yourself an RT 4WD wagon and she looks great . Just would've been nice (and honest ) if you would have been given a heads up about the issues from the get go . Luck with her . Diggin the wheels big time .
Well I've run 205/15x6.5/7's on all my Si's and this is the same motor with a little more driveline loss, so Im assuming that she'll roll just fine. Granted shes only been run on 3 cylinders so far, so I don't really know for sure.
I got an email back from the sellers mom (yeah, he was only 17...which I didn't know until I showed up at his garage) and she was pretty blunt and said the deal was done. I wrote her back a wall of text email that really explained the entire situation from my point of view and how if not deceit, then inexperience in what to disclose when selling a used car had caused our issues. It's a rather good letter if anyone wants to read it I'll post it. Well see how she replies.
The car is parked until the glass is fixed (cant find anything local, 3 local shops quoted all over $400), suspension is replaced (omni power coils?), and the valve cover bolt and temp gauge situation are sorted out. I really felt like I was taking a risk, and it was rather unsafe to drive back, but I really had no choice. Now that I can make the choice it's gonna stay parked until it's safe to drive.
I just made my first attempt at removing the broken valve cover bolt. I first found that the 10mm "nut" was stripped. Win. Then I found this thread on H-T.
Just as an update use a 5/64 drill bit. This is the size that the package of the #1 EZ out said to use.
I used a 1/16 first (without looking at the EZ out package) and the #1 wouldn't fit in. I had another EZ out that would fit, but that snapped off. Then a 5/64 cobalt drill bit to drill out the broken EZ out broke off. So now Im down to a really big vice grips and a pry bar.
Which lead to no pressure on the spark plug gasket which =
New hardware (2 of the nuts were non oem, replaced them all):
The temporary "gasket" I made at a truck stop in Montana just to keep oil inside the valve cover:
The bad bolt after removal (total pita):
All better:
Had the kid who sold me this, just mentioned this...just once...I would have had it fixed before leaving on my 1600 mile road trip back home. Shane, if you read this...thanks buddy. :roll:
Ordered some new Koni red's which should go on this Friday, new thermostat is inbound, and new windshield should be installed tomorrow. Then I think I'll be ready to actually drive it on the road.
Damn I remember this ad on CL kid made it seem to be a near perfect wagon. It's a shame he jewd you like that considering the journey you were taking. Hey if it makes you feel any better I'm going to be in Seattle this weekend and if you want I can go beat the shit out of him haha.
Lol! As much as that would make me happy, I've been nothing but civil with him and his family in hopes they realized that their kid asked way more than the car was worth, and we could come to an agreement about the price.
I think they (him and his parents) are just ignoring me in hopes that they don't have to confront the situation. :?
Costs so far:
*Needed, but upgraded over OEM replacement
**Needed
Car - $3600
Wheels - $175* (15x7 Momo Mille Milgia)
Tires - $480* (Dunlop Z1 star spec 205/55/15)
Struts - $331* (Koni reds)
Glass - $260** (From the junkyard - installed)
Nardi - $300* (Replaced 310mm woodgrain "go-kart" wheel...omg that thing was small, had used hub)
Repairs - $100+** (Valve bolt + Thermostat, possibly heater core and exhaust in future)
So roughly $1600 so far just to get her road worthy. Id say I spend an extra $600 to get quality parts rather than replace the worn stuff with cheap junk. Also I still have an engine light that I need to diagnose. Haven't checked codes yet.
When were you driving through Billings area (If you did)? It may not have been you, but a friend told me he had seen a wagon roll through town dumped with HID's, and was thinking it could possibly have been you - it was probably just over a week, possibly two ago now...
When were you driving through Billings area (If you did)? It may not have been you, but a friend told me he had seen a wagon roll through town dumped with HID's, and was thinking it could possibly have been you - it was probably just over a week, possibly two ago now...
I would assume that was me. We went through Billings on the evening of the 14th, after our failed attempt to drive through Yellowstone.
That NARDI steering wheel is the ISH . Glad you fixed the VC deal . Back where I'm from , somebody does that kind of ISH . First you ask them nicely to remedy the situation . If that doesn't work . Then you ask not so nicely :twisted: .
yea i saw this car on the CL add too... i remember the owner saying some shit about the wagon price if u didn't like it or not... but at least you got it and a really owner can take care of it... looks clean... can't wait to see more pics...
Yeah, he was very firm about the price, "Don't lowball me" "One of the cleanest I've seen" etc. He used all the right words w/o ever talking about any problems. Granted...the body is in 'good' shape (some dings and scrapes), but the mechanics were rough.
your wagon looks nice, but I don't get why you would pay so much for the car without seeing it. I dig my wago, but I barely paid 1k for it. I wouldn't pay anymore for one in any better shape...
I think it's BS that the seller was shady with you, but in the end, it all on you bro. It's a used car, you bought as is. What do you expect the previous owner to do anyway? give you some money back?! Don't hold your breath.
Looks like you have some nice plans for the car and the body looks clean. I'd just chalk it up as experience and forget about the goon you bought it from.
Finding a super good RT4WD is a challenge, much less finding a super clean one. I combed through every forum, CL and ebay post for almost a month before I settled on this one. It was within my price range, RT4WD, out west (which allowed my gf and I to take a well deserved road trip/vacation), and the seller answered all the questions the correct way.
Because I live in Wisconsin almost all of the 4th gens here are rusting, if not severely, at least mildly, so we HAVE to travel to get good older cars. This is the 5th car I've traveled over 1000 miles for. I know the procedure, I know what questions to ask, I select these transactions very carefully so when I do fly across the country to buy them, they are what I expected.
Sadly this time I ran into a liar and a thief. I understand the blame falls partly on me, but to say it's ALL on me totally relinquishes any blame from the seller. That's just a shitty way to look at things, bro. And yes, I expected the seller, after ripping me off and me calling him on it to give me some money back. Yes it was -as is- but considering the circumstance (me flying to pick it up), he should have been more forthcoming about the condition of the car. While I didn't mind spending the money to fly there, rent hotels, and pay to drive the car back. I didn't have money just to fly there and check it out. So when I showed up and there were some minor issues, I overlooked them for the bigger picture (a clean, straight body and frame). Then as the days wore on I found more and more problems (which I wouldn't have found on a test drive). I think at the very least the previous owner should have had the balls to have a discussion about it with me. The even shittier thing is that he let me drive across the country with these known issues. THATS what really pisses me off.
Anyway. Struts arrived on Friday, installed tomorrow, and then she'll be on the road.
I hear ya tho. really. Not trying to be a downer.
I am just a real bastard to sellers when it comes to cars. I never pay asking price, and I am always weary of EVERY seller.
I wish I didn't have to be and sellers should disclose all information that they posses about a vehicle in the buying/selling process. But the truth is, they don't.
That's why I say it's all on the buyer. Ultimately, you are agreeing to give someone your hard earned money.
I've lived in AZ, TX and the south my whole life, so I guess I am a little spoiled when it comes to buying cars with good bodies. At least you and your girl had a good time. and you got a clean wago outta the deal!!
When I bought mine, I took it for two test drives. The car was running well, but I could tell that someone had just attempted a valve cover re-seal. It was done piss-poor and oil was leaking from the vc. Not a huge deal at all, but that was red flag number one. As I asked questions, they told me that the AC was working perfect a few months ago but then "all the sudden" it stopped working. I checked the lines, and they were empty. I began to suspect that during the vc repair, they may have had the engine bay disassembled more than just what a vc repair calls for. Enough so that they had to disconnect the AC. Red Flag 2.
I talked them down pretty well on the price and could tell they just wanted to get rid of the car. When I paid them they wanted to take me to change the title right then and there, even tho I was already late for work. Red Flag 3.
So I knew something was up with the car. Sure enough, on the way home, the car overheated. I blew the head gasket. When I took it apart to fix it, I could tell the head gasket had JUST been repaired (or attempted to be repaired). They didn't bother to deck the head and there were scratches on the surface from a screw-driver when the pryed the head off before. F-in jokers!
I was really glad I negotiated as well as I did, there are always things about a used car that the owner doesn't want to tell you. ALWAYS.
If you can catch on to what they might be, you'll see the price drop lower than you expected. That's my hustle anyway.
Anyway, glad yall are back safe.
Enjoy the wagon, can't wait to see some updated pics!
Yeah, sadly what I have learned is not to trust people. Which is always a sad lesson to learn. I've got my eye on a 510 as my next project after this one is done so Ill take the lessons learned here into account when searching for a good 510.
It seems I mistakenly ordered Tokico blues rather than Koni reds. Not quite sure how that happened. Rather than send them back I verified that they only charged me for blues, then impatiently threw them on RB.
I raised her up another .5" or so, and in conjunc, tion with replacing blown strutsthe ride is much, much smoother. I should have full coils on sometime this summer, so this is a good temporary solution.
Also, I came out of a store this weekend to find that someone had reached across my hood to put some paris hilton perfume sample cards under my wiper. In the process they leaned into my fender and dented it. So pissed. I think it will all pop out.
Mines got a broken VC bolt as well. It's in the middle closest to the exhaust manifold. One of these days I'm going to fix it.
What are you doing in the mean time to keep pressure on all the gaskets?
My head is a D16Y8 so it has a few more VC bolts than your D16A6. So it's alright for now. It leaks a tiny bit of oil, but not alot to be concerned about.
Comments
"Sorry that the car did not meet your expectations. I told you everything that was asked, I have only owned the car for about 5 months so did not know how much stuff was wrong with it. I never said that the car was 100% in working order and didnt feed you any lies when we discussed this car.
The car was sold as is. it is a used car so you cannot expect the conditions of a brand new car.
Hope everything works out for you"
I shouldn't "have to ask" if the windshield washer components are in place. I've purchased and sold a lot of cars before and always placed the responsibility of divulging problems (serious or minor) on the seller.
The windshield was a hazard, and the valve cover bolt was something he obviously knew about since it was tapped, and he had just done work on the motor.
My reply is that I'm taking him to small claims court. For the first time ever when buying a used vehicle I feel like I was really swindled, and I'm not going to let him get away with it if possible.
Yes I know I should have given the car a better once over and possibly negotiated there on the spot but Friday for me was literally up at 3am fly from Baltimore to Milwaukee, drive an hour into work, do 3h of paperwork, drive an hour home, pack, fly from Milwaukee to Seattle (which was delayed) and drive an hour to pick up the car. I was relying on the word of the owner which was "one of the nicest ive personally seen." and it had "receipts for new head gasket, valve cover gasket etc.[engine work]". This is why I feel like I am 50% to blame for being duped. :oops:
Anyway, time to start fixing stuff. I'll post updates as I get the car road worthy again.
I got an email back from the sellers mom (yeah, he was only 17...which I didn't know until I showed up at his garage) and she was pretty blunt and said the deal was done. I wrote her back a wall of text email that really explained the entire situation from my point of view and how if not deceit, then inexperience in what to disclose when selling a used car had caused our issues. It's a rather good letter if anyone wants to read it I'll post it. Well see how she replies.
The car is parked until the glass is fixed (cant find anything local, 3 local shops quoted all over $400), suspension is replaced (omni power coils?), and the valve cover bolt and temp gauge situation are sorted out. I really felt like I was taking a risk, and it was rather unsafe to drive back, but I really had no choice. Now that I can make the choice it's gonna stay parked until it's safe to drive.
http://www.honda-tech.com/showthread.php?t=2580443
Which helped out a lot, except:
Updates when it gets fixed.
Which lead to no pressure on the spark plug gasket which =
New hardware (2 of the nuts were non oem, replaced them all):
The temporary "gasket" I made at a truck stop in Montana just to keep oil inside the valve cover:
The bad bolt after removal (total pita):
All better:
Had the kid who sold me this, just mentioned this...just once...I would have had it fixed before leaving on my 1600 mile road trip back home. Shane, if you read this...thanks buddy. :roll:
Ordered some new Koni red's which should go on this Friday, new thermostat is inbound, and new windshield should be installed tomorrow. Then I think I'll be ready to actually drive it on the road.
I think they (him and his parents) are just ignoring me in hopes that they don't have to confront the situation. :?
What are you doing in the mean time to keep pressure on all the gaskets?
New glass is in at last! Also have a Nardi wheel and NRG quick release ready to go in, but I got the wrong short hub shipped. Grr. :?
I'll put up some pics tomorrow, probably wont be installed till next weekend.
*Needed, but upgraded over OEM replacement
**Needed
Car - $3600
Wheels - $175* (15x7 Momo Mille Milgia)
Tires - $480* (Dunlop Z1 star spec 205/55/15)
Struts - $331* (Koni reds)
Glass - $260** (From the junkyard - installed)
Nardi - $300* (Replaced 310mm woodgrain "go-kart" wheel...omg that thing was small, had used hub)
Repairs - $100+** (Valve bolt + Thermostat, possibly heater core and exhaust in future)
So roughly $1600 so far just to get her road worthy. Id say I spend an extra $600 to get quality parts rather than replace the worn stuff with cheap junk. Also I still have an engine light that I need to diagnose. Haven't checked codes yet.
Cell pic of Nardi
I would assume that was me. We went through Billings on the evening of the 14th, after our failed attempt to drive through Yellowstone.
I think it's BS that the seller was shady with you, but in the end, it all on you bro. It's a used car, you bought as is. What do you expect the previous owner to do anyway? give you some money back?! Don't hold your breath.
Looks like you have some nice plans for the car and the body looks clean. I'd just chalk it up as experience and forget about the goon you bought it from.
Finding a super good RT4WD is a challenge, much less finding a super clean one. I combed through every forum, CL and ebay post for almost a month before I settled on this one. It was within my price range, RT4WD, out west (which allowed my gf and I to take a well deserved road trip/vacation), and the seller answered all the questions the correct way.
Because I live in Wisconsin almost all of the 4th gens here are rusting, if not severely, at least mildly, so we HAVE to travel to get good older cars. This is the 5th car I've traveled over 1000 miles for. I know the procedure, I know what questions to ask, I select these transactions very carefully so when I do fly across the country to buy them, they are what I expected.
Sadly this time I ran into a liar and a thief. I understand the blame falls partly on me, but to say it's ALL on me totally relinquishes any blame from the seller. That's just a shitty way to look at things, bro. And yes, I expected the seller, after ripping me off and me calling him on it to give me some money back. Yes it was -as is- but considering the circumstance (me flying to pick it up), he should have been more forthcoming about the condition of the car. While I didn't mind spending the money to fly there, rent hotels, and pay to drive the car back. I didn't have money just to fly there and check it out. So when I showed up and there were some minor issues, I overlooked them for the bigger picture (a clean, straight body and frame). Then as the days wore on I found more and more problems (which I wouldn't have found on a test drive). I think at the very least the previous owner should have had the balls to have a discussion about it with me. The even shittier thing is that he let me drive across the country with these known issues. THATS what really pisses me off.
Anyway. Struts arrived on Friday, installed tomorrow, and then she'll be on the road.
I hear ya tho. really. Not trying to be a downer.
I am just a real bastard to sellers when it comes to cars. I never pay asking price, and I am always weary of EVERY seller.
I wish I didn't have to be and sellers should disclose all information that they posses about a vehicle in the buying/selling process. But the truth is, they don't.
That's why I say it's all on the buyer. Ultimately, you are agreeing to give someone your hard earned money.
I've lived in AZ, TX and the south my whole life, so I guess I am a little spoiled when it comes to buying cars with good bodies. At least you and your girl had a good time. and you got a clean wago outta the deal!!
When I bought mine, I took it for two test drives. The car was running well, but I could tell that someone had just attempted a valve cover re-seal. It was done piss-poor and oil was leaking from the vc. Not a huge deal at all, but that was red flag number one. As I asked questions, they told me that the AC was working perfect a few months ago but then "all the sudden" it stopped working. I checked the lines, and they were empty. I began to suspect that during the vc repair, they may have had the engine bay disassembled more than just what a vc repair calls for. Enough so that they had to disconnect the AC. Red Flag 2.
I talked them down pretty well on the price and could tell they just wanted to get rid of the car. When I paid them they wanted to take me to change the title right then and there, even tho I was already late for work. Red Flag 3.
So I knew something was up with the car. Sure enough, on the way home, the car overheated. I blew the head gasket. When I took it apart to fix it, I could tell the head gasket had JUST been repaired (or attempted to be repaired). They didn't bother to deck the head and there were scratches on the surface from a screw-driver when the pryed the head off before. F-in jokers!
I was really glad I negotiated as well as I did, there are always things about a used car that the owner doesn't want to tell you. ALWAYS.
If you can catch on to what they might be, you'll see the price drop lower than you expected. That's my hustle anyway.
Anyway, glad yall are back safe.
Enjoy the wagon, can't wait to see some updated pics!
It seems I mistakenly ordered Tokico blues rather than Koni reds. Not quite sure how that happened. Rather than send them back I verified that they only charged me for blues, then impatiently threw them on RB.
I raised her up another .5" or so, and in conjunc, tion with replacing blown strutsthe ride is much, much smoother. I should have full coils on sometime this summer, so this is a good temporary solution.
Also, I came out of a store this weekend to find that someone had reached across my hood to put some paris hilton perfume sample cards under my wiper. In the process they leaned into my fender and dented it. So pissed. I think it will all pop out.
I'll have some updated pics this weekend.
My head is a D16Y8 so it has a few more VC bolts than your D16A6. So it's alright for now. It leaks a tiny bit of oil, but not alot to be concerned about.