Looking to but '79 CVCC Wagon advice please

Hey guys and gals-
Have an opportunity to buy a 1979 Honda Civic CVCC wagon with 66,000 original miles. Super clean inside and out, small bits of rust under paint not through and only in a few spots. All original, including factory AM radio! All lights, wipers, turn signals, etc. work. Owner states brakes need bled and choke adjustment needs done. Asking $2,500.00 as is to someone who wants to tinker with it...he's retired and moving on from some of his toys. He's second owner,bought in 2000 and then it had 55,000 miles so he put about 11,000 over 5 years. Last time it was driven was November 2014.

So, I checked it out he had engine running and it didn't buck, smoke, kick or make clicking/clacking/clanging noises. No leaks on ground I could see. He thought points needed adjusting because it ran rough last year, but after it ran for about 10min it evened out and sounded good.

Brakes : Master cylinder reservoir had fluid in it, but very little pedal. I pumped them about 6 times, no change just soft down to floor and spring back up....never got hard. Would this indicate dead master cylinder? Emergency brake works.

Since I can't drive it down the road, is there anything I can do to help diagnose transmission problems?

What else should I be checking out?

He's out of town until Sunday, so I have a week to think on this but of course there are 4 other people in line to buy it, I currently have 1st chance. He said it runs fine, clutch is newer with not many miles on it....I'm just afraid of buying a money pit, but if it's just master cylinder or even all new brake lines I feel the price is a good deal.

Any help is appreciated.

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Comments

  • jpciiijpciii familEE
    Well, I can think of a whole bunch of negatives: It's old and it's been sitting, so the low miles is almost meaningless as far as the amount of maintenance it will need. It would be foolish to believe that all it will need is brakes bled and a carb adjustment. Kinda goes without saying, but if you intend to pay a shop to work on it, it will absolutely be a money pit. Furthermore, it's highly unlikely you will ever get your money back out of it, even if you do all the work yourself. I think you said in your other thread that you have experience with old Honda motorcycles and air-cooled V-Dubs. There are millions of those vehicles across the globe that are still in operation. Parts for them are still being manufactured - they're plentiful and cheap. This Civic is much more of a rare oddball. Rust on old Hondas is ALWAYS worse than what the eye can see... hard to tell from the pics, but it may have an old cheap paint job on it? Best case scenario - the mileage is correct, it's been fairly well maintained, the body is original... IMO, the price would still be too high since it's not even drivable.

    So, now that I've pissed all over your dreams, I'll say something positive. I think these little cars are super cool in their utilitarian homeliness. They're simple and easy to work on, etc... I've wanted one for a long time. If you're willing/able to make a labor-of-love/hobby out of keeping it going (and can get it at a cheaper price), then by all means, go for it.
  • VeedonfleeceVeedonfleece Band Wagon
    Thanks for bringing me back to earth! I didn't even know I wanted this until I saw it, which is a bad way to start haha. The local Honda dealership shop said they would inspect it for $100.00 if I tow it in, so I should probably do that and make an offer after that or just walk away all together. If it IS just brakes, the body is solid, etc. and the owner decides to up the price then so be it....
  • HaydzHaydz Moderator
    You'd be a fool to share the report with the owner. Your money, your report - if he wants to garner information from it then he can pay you for the report. :P
  • LowFlyin'LowFlyin' Moderator
    Buying a car this old is not like buying a 5-10 year old used car. You buy it KNOWING you will have to put a bit of time and money into it.

    I think the $2500 that he is asking is fair, regardless of what is wrong with it. You just need to buy it knowing that you are going to spend an addition of at least what you paid for it over the next year or two.
  • VeedonfleeceVeedonfleece Band Wagon
    Thanks for the replies guys. I'm able to look at it again this Sunday. Please entertain a few amateur questions.

    Since the master cylinder is holding fluid , but the brakes won't stiffen up after pumping (but the emergency brake works, no fluid leaking,) am I correct in assuming the master cylinder is shot?

    Is rust the only thing that will destroy brake lines or do brake lines go bad in other ways?

    My plan is to crawl underneath to look for rust on frame and floors, try and determine if the clutch feels right by shifting through gears when engine is off (not sure if that will tell me anything), check fluids, etc. and make an offer.

    He was driving the car in November 2014, pulled it back out to sell in May so it has been sitting for 6 months, that doesn't seem like a long time to me....with my '74 VW after winter storage it starts right up but that's a very different car I know :)

    I don't mind having a car I need to make a labor of love and have some hair pulling frusrtating Sat afternoons in the garage, I just want to check everything I can on Sunday to make the best informed decision possible.
  • LowFlyin'LowFlyin' Moderator
    A non-leaking MC with soft pedal likely means the internal seals are not solid. A rebuild kit would likely solve that.

    Also, check for loose drum brakes. The soft pedal could be that the drums are not automatically tensioning, and the soft feel is just additional travel before the pads engage the drum.
  • jb2wheelsjb2wheels Wagonist
    I think that car would be a lot of fun and a lot of frustration. Years ago I passed on the opportunity to buy a couple of similar vintage hatches. I still wish I had them.

    But after reading this thread, one thought came to mind: if you have to pay a dealer for a used car inspection, a 36 year old oddball is not the car for you.

    $2500 seems like a lot for the car but I have not shopped for old Civics in a long time.
    The car's been sitting a lot - plan on $500 in brake parts and replace everything master/calipers/cylinders/HW/drums/rotors/bearings/hoses. Not a big deal.
    What about all the other rubber hoses - like the entire cooling system and the vacuum system?

    Could be fun. Could be a PITA. Could be a money pit. You pay your $$ and you take your chances.
  • VeedonfleeceVeedonfleece Band Wagon
    jb2wheels wrote: »

    But after reading this thread, one thought came to mind: if you have to pay a dealer for a used car inspection, a 36 year old oddball is not the car for you.

    I agree I do not know a lot, or maybe not even much at all, about these cars. I have worked on a 1974 Nova in High School, minor things like replacing brakes, setting the timing, oil changes, fuel pumps and master cylinder, and I currently have a 1974 VW that I do valve adjustments/oil change and basic maintenance. I'm a musician and have learned to work on old Hammond B3 organs and tube amplifiers and vintage synthesizers, so maybe I can learn to work on this, too.

    I'm a single guy with no wife and kids, so I have more free time than most guys my age lol. In my town, we have a local Japanese auto shop with a guy who's been there 35 years. Having him put this up on a lift so I can really see it well, and letting him see/hear the engine running is worth $100 to me since he has experience with the CVCC Hondas.
  • arries289arries289 Wagonist
    Actually, soft brakes are generally caused by air in the system, which MAY be due to leaking lines, fittings, etc. The entire brake system needs to be checked for leaks first, then properly bled of air. The rear drums need to be checked for proper adjustment. I would replace any lines that appear deteriorated or cracked, or hard lines that are heavily rusted. Soft lines naturally deteriorate with time. I would say if they are more than 12-15 years old, replace them. This is something you can do yourself. If you are not a 'mechanic', there is no harm in learning and digging in. Lots of good info on the interweb nowadays to guide you. But, I would have a mechanic (or someone knowledgeable) check your work just to be sure. IMO, the car is worth $2500 if there is not much rust. Bodywork is where you will spend your money. Mechanics are pretty simple.
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