Random steering wheel shake, please help!

5280Wagovan5280Wagovan Band Wagon
in Suspension, Braking & Wheels
So I recently got some mst MT05 15x8 et20 off craigslist, the tires on them are 195/50. With my winter tires I didn't really feel any sort of shaking when driving but after putting on the new summer set up I got a wicked steering wheel shake starting around 45-50mph. I have had the tires rebalanced, got a new tie rod end because one was bad, and also got hub centric rings to get the rims to center better but still shakes, not all the time tho either. Sometimes while at highway speeds the steering wheel doesn't shake for awhile then starts back up. The rims don't look bent or anything but that wouldn't account for the randomness of the shaking going away. I am lowered on BC coilovers and I'm sure my alignment is off but I'm not any lower then I was with the winter tires so I have no idea where to go from here. Any help would be AMAZING!! Thanks in advance.



P.S. I'll get some pictures of how the cars looking now up soon.

Comments

  • 503Wagon503Wagon moderator
    so....lets start with what kind of car you have.
  • 5280Wagovan5280Wagovan Band Wagon
    Sorry about that, I have a 1990 Honda Civic RT4wd manual. I also put it back in 2wd for the summer, the shake was there in 4wd and is also in 2wd.
  • 503Wagon503Wagon moderator
    have you checked your axles lately? also check your u-joints, if one is getting stiff it can cause a vibration.
  • 5280Wagovan5280Wagovan Band Wagon
    I do have a torn boot on the outside passenger side. No clicking or popping around turns tho. The U-joints on the drive shaft to the rear right?
  • 5280Wagovan5280Wagovan Band Wagon
    So after driving it more I think it's just isolated to the steering. When my steering wheel shakes the rest of the car feels fine. I'm so lost haha

    Could going from a 60series winter tire to a slightly stretched 50series tire just be showing a problem I had that the winter tires absorbed?
  • Dj HentaiDj Hentai Wagonist
    Check the steering rack bolts and bushings.
  • 5280Wagovan5280Wagovan Band Wagon
    Got under the car last night, replaced the passenger side CV and shook everything that I think would shake the steering wheel, and everything felt tight. Then I went on the test drive and the shake is still there. I've rotated tires and that didn't help either........ I think the shake is getting worse.
  • skittlenipsskittlenips Wagonist
    Does the shake happen only at certain speeds or anything like that? While braking? Where does it feel like it's coming from?
  • Dj HentaiDj Hentai Wagonist
    When you had the tires balanced, was it everyday balancing or did they force-balance them?

    Sometimes tires have a nasty heavy spot and there's almost no way to balance for it. Force balancing can make it a little better, it's a bit more involved than normal balancing. You have to move the tire around on the wheel, etc. until the weight is just right and all.
  • skittlenipsskittlenips Wagonist
    And sometimes shops just suck ass at balancing...see below:

    http://www.civicwagon.com/showthread.php?17327-Vibration-gremlin-I-m-ready-to-crush-the-car/page2
  • quartersquarters Council Member
    If the winter tires didn't do it, then it's your rims or tires. That's the only change you made, that's the problem.

    Here's what you do...
    - put in steady 2wd mode
    - jack front up, put on stands.
    - put 1 tire on the FR, start the car up and get it up to speed that it vibrates. if nothing, then repeat on FL side. if nothing, then something is only happening under load. like bearing or something. The difference in offset can be causing more stress on the bearing. It's scary doing the high speed burns with the car in the air, make sure you are safe.

    i've had a vibration on my wagon for 7 years that i can't solve, i gave up and bought a new wagon. I replaced EVERYTHING you can think of, it's well documented on this board.
  • quartersquarters Council Member
    I ended up chalking it up to having a VERY HARD 564,000kms, rocker panels probably don't exist anymore under the plastic cover. It can be a nightmare diagnosing, hang in there!
    Try another balance shop, with a Hunter Road Force Balancer (you can google shops in your location that have one, they have a database) and INSIST on watching them while they do it and are actually doing a full road force. I busted some rookie claiming a road force and he didn't even bring the pressure wheel down. Fucker. I've had wheel weights fly off 100meters after balance. U turn, shake fist. Sounds like a rock hitting under your car. PPPTTTTTIIIINNNGGGGG..
  • quartersquarters Council Member
    Does it do it only under acceleration, or at a constant speed? does it change at any point changing direction?
    You REALLY need to dial in the diagnosis.

    Dr. Quarters: Ph.D Vibrationology
  • 5280Wagovan5280Wagovan Band Wagon
    Belive me I'm trying to track down when and why this is happening. Today while driving to work the shake started to be noticeable around 30mph, then on the highway it shook up to 65 for awhile. At one point out felt like the shake was in the car like an imbalanced wheel but then came back to the steering wheel. Then in the drive home it was fun from 0-80 for miles then the shake came back. I think it happens more with turns and sometimes on decel. I'm almost at a complete loss. I'm gonna try to get my hands on some different tires tomorrow and go from there. Thanks for all the ideas. I'll definitely look into the force balancing.
  • 5280Wagovan5280Wagovan Band Wagon
    So I put the winter tires back on and went for a drive and while paying closer attention I think that shake is still there but the side wall and softness of the winter tire is hiding it. Bring me back to I have no idea what's wrong with my car. I'm about to go pull a manual steering rack from an EF civic and swap it in just to see if that would fix anything. Before I do that I want to put on a performance-based (summer tire stiffer side wall, not like race slicks) set of rims and tires that are known to be balanced and true and see if that shake it's still there. Then I can rule out my current rims and tires and before I start trying to trade those or getting a new steering rack
  • 5280Wagovan5280Wagovan Band Wagon
    Ok so I jacked up the front and tested the tires by driving the front wheels, one rim at a time, pairs, different combos of both summer and winter sets and it shook around 50-55+ every time so I don't think it's rims and or tires. What to do next??
  • quartersquarters Council Member
    That's how my car was reacting as well. Did you try without any tires at all? use lug nuts to secure brake rotor.

    turn the steering wheel all the way to the left, grab the right side shaft of your steering column and try to shake it around, see if there is play. If so, the dreaded rack-end bushing needs doing. But... i doubt that's your problem.
    You may have a bent axle.

    It's one of the hardest things to diagnose. Good luck.
  • AbideAbide Council Member
    mine was doing the same at 65-75 ended up being something lose in the rack. never found out what because it destroyed everything on its way out.
  • 5280Wagovan5280Wagovan Band Wagon
    I'm gonna do the other axle this weekend, the brakes, and I have a manual steering rack that's good that I might toss in as well. See if one if those fixes it and they need to be fine anyway. I'll keep you all updated. Thanks for the advice.
  • 5280Wagovan5280Wagovan Band Wagon
    So quick update, replaced both cv axles, pulled the power steering rack and put on a manual rack but the shake is still there. I think it's mostly on acceleration or deceleration around 70mph is most noticeable but it's also there if I push the clutch in. The thing is, if I have my car up on jack stands and no wheels on it and got it up to 55+ it still shook. Does that leave the transmission to be the culprit? I'm about ready to put things back to stock and sell it. I don't want to but I can't drive a shaking car forever.
  • AbideAbide Council Member
    radius rod bushings maybe?
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