Which D-series can I swap in and keep 4WD?

13

Comments

  • SonicSonic Band Wagon
    I have a D16Y8 installed in my 91 RT4WD wagon, has been there since 2001.

    To fit the intermediate shaft, the holes are there, I just drilled and tapped them to accept the intermediate shaft bolts.

    For the oil pan, I had to use the D16A6 part due to the 4WD section of the transmission

    I had to mix and match A6 and Y8 parts on a few things to make it work, but it fits right in, and the OBD0 distributor bolts on with all 3 bolts into the Y8 head.

    Pic to prove a Y8 can be done:
    515.jpg
    712.jpg
  • CharbCharb Administrator
    Cleaned up and added to quicklinks
  • After extensive research.... The Y8 can be swapped in a RT and still use the a6 pan IF you use either an A6 or Z6 oil pump and pickup. The Y8's oil dipstick is in the oil pump, and the Z6 has the external one. Which kinda sucks because I really like to keep an eye on my oil...

    Edit: Probably why the "proof" picture somebody posted has no dipstick :lol:
  • eddywright wrote:
    IF you use either an A6 or Z6 oil pump and pickup.

    The z6 pickup will not work with the rt pan, you have to keep the rt pickup.
  • SonicSonic Band Wagon
    eddywright wrote:
    After extensive research.... The Y8 can be swapped in a RT and still use the a6 pan IF you use either an A6 or Z6 oil pump and pickup. The Y8's oil dipstick is in the oil pump, and the Z6 has the external one. Which kinda sucks because I really like to keep an eye on my oil...

    Edit: Probably why the "proof" picture somebody posted has no dipstick :lol:

    Look a little harder at the "proof" picture. See the little orange handle on the driver's side of the motor by the power steering pump? That's the dipstick, stock location for the D16Y8, using a D16Y8 oil pump. I may have swapped the pickup over, I really don't remember as I did the swap 10 years ago.

    Take a good look at the picture next time before making derogatory comments.
  • How was my post derogatory in ANY way? Please explain to us all how you managed to keep the Y8 pan and clear the 4wd trans?
  • SonicSonic Band Wagon
    Again, read my original post
    Sonic wrote:
    For the oil pan, I had to use the D16A6 part due to the 4WD section of the transmission

    That's what I said about the oil pan. At first I tried to just hammer down the Y8 pan, but it was too much of a difference, so I bought a new pan for the RT4WD as it has a significant difference under cylinder #4 to allow for the output shaft for the rear driveshaft. It bolted on with no modifications, aside from the oil pickup swap from the A6.

    I thought your post was derogatory as you were implying that I was a hack who didn't care about having an oil dipstick, and that the " 'proof' " picture was not real. If I misunderstood your intent, I truly apologize, as tone of voice is hard to decipher on the internet! :)

    Either way, I never said that the Y8 pan was possible with the RT4WD. I basically kept the Y8 longblock and swapped everything else from the A6 over to get it to fit, including manifolds, wiring harness (plus a 1 wire VTEC Zdyne ECU), oil pan, distributor, mounts), and used a combo of A6 and Y8 timing belt covers and belts and accessories and accessory pulleys. As you piece it together, it all makes sense. In my opinion, it is an easier swap an than a Z6 swap, as the dizzy bolts right on with all 3 bolts.

    Lets all just get along and enjoy these rare cars that bring us together!
    515.jpg
  • So the A6 pan bolted up to Y8 with the stock Y8 oil pump all you had to swap was the pickup?
  • klumklum Senior Wagonist
    does any one know how far off the intermediate shafts are on h22s or f22's compared our rt4wd intermediate shafts?
    arent our intermediate shafts the same ones as DA integras?
  • njimko567njimko567 Band Wagon
    I am new to the forum, so if I have missed the answer to this let me know.
    Will a D17A6 out of a 02 civic HX work in the civic AWD?
  • lafwagonlafwagon Wagonist
    so, in the case of a d15 a standard length axle can be used in place of the intermediate shaft? I'm in a bind here. No a6's locally.....
  • unfortunately, the d15 and standard d axles won't work. Because of the transfer case there is not enough room for the large diameter of the inner cv joint. You have to use an intermediate shaft
  • bikewrench wrote:
    eddywright wrote:
    IF you use either an A6 or Z6 oil pump and pickup.

    The z6 pickup will not work with the rt pan, you have to keep the rt pickup.

    DAMMIT i wish I had seen this the first time I read this thread, apparently I missed it.

    Just finally finished my Z6 swap, after working on it for like 2 weeks in my spare time (all night after work usually)

    Started up fine, but no oil pressure. I had considered swapping the pickups, and I was gonna check to see if they were any different, I actually had the one off of the A6 and then I went to do something else and when I came back I just threw the A6 pan on the Z6 Motor. Seemed to go on fine, other than it seemed to catch a little on the studs, but a little wriggling got it on there.

    When the car started up tonight, and had no pressure, I immediately thought the pickup was smashed against the bottom of the oil pan. It sounded like it was knocking a little, I pray that I didn't cause serious damage,.

    Does anyone know a way to get the oil pan off without pulling the motor back out? It doesn't seem like there is enough room to pull the trans out on its own, and the oil pan will not come off with the transmission / transfer case in position.
  • bam-bambam-bam Council Member
    bikewrench wrote:
    eddywright wrote:
    IF you use either an A6 or Z6 oil pump and pickup.

    The z6 pickup will not work with the rt pan, you have to keep the rt pickup.

    DAMMIT i wish I had seen this the first time I read this thread, apparently I missed it.

    Just finally finished my Z6 swap, after working on it for like 2 weeks in my spare time (all night after work usually)

    Started up fine, but no oil pressure. I had considered swapping the pickups, and I was gonna check to see if they were any different, I actually had the one off of the A6 and then I went to do something else and when I came back I just threw the A6 pan on the Z6 Motor. Seemed to go on fine, other than it seemed to catch a little on the studs, but a little wriggling got it on there.

    When the car started up tonight, and had no pressure, I immediately thought the pickup was smashed against the bottom of the oil pan. It sounded like it was knocking a little, I pray that I didn't cause serious damage,.

    Does anyone know a way to get the oil pan off without pulling the motor back out? It doesn't seem like there is enough room to pull the trans out on its own, and the oil pan will not come off with the transmission / transfer case in position.



    I noticed on my z6 that the bottom of the pickup contacted the floor of the pan even before the pan reached the block gasket surface. Now, that was test-fitting with no gasket, could be easy to miss with the gasket in place. I even smeared some grease on the face of the pickup to confirm, and sure enough it transferred to the pan when I tried it again.

    I don't have an a6 to take the pickup from, (my car was bought as a shell) so I did some checking on Majestic and found that the d15b2 one is the same part#.

    I don't know whether the pan will come off with the engine in situ... I doubt it, sounds like you'll have to pull it.
  • bikewrench wrote:
    eddywright wrote:
    IF you use either an A6 or Z6 oil pump and pickup.

    The z6 pickup will not work with the rt pan, you have to keep the rt pickup.

    DAMMIT i wish I had seen this the first time I read this thread, apparently I missed it.

    Just finally finished my Z6 swap, after working on it for like 2 weeks in my spare time (all night after work usually)

    Started up fine, but no oil pressure. I had considered swapping the pickups, and I was gonna check to see if they were any different, I actually had the one off of the A6 and then I went to do something else and when I came back I just threw the A6 pan on the Z6 Motor. Seemed to go on fine, other than it seemed to catch a little on the studs, but a little wriggling got it on there.

    When the car started up tonight, and had no pressure, I immediately thought the pickup was smashed against the bottom of the oil pan. It sounded like it was knocking a little, I pray that I didn't cause serious damage,.

    Does anyone know a way to get the oil pan off without pulling the motor back out? It doesn't seem like there is enough room to pull the trans out on its own, and the oil pan will not come off with the transmission / transfer case in position.


    Sounds like you learned the same way I did, I ended up pulling the motor back out, Good Luck.

    Bam-Bam, Thanks for the heads up on the b2 pick up, good to know.
  • I almost cried when I realized I had to pull the motor back out again. I've had such bad luck with this swap. Oh well. I guess now i'll know for next time. I swear, when I get finished, I'm going to make a list of EVERYTHING that has to be done to swap a Z6 into a Rt4Wd wagon, and get it all in one place, and try to get it added to the quicklink sticky.

    I really tried to research the hell out of this, but there were quite a few things that just had no info anywhere. Most of what I did find was scattered all over the place too. This thread is really helpful, but is by no means complete, and not very organized. I understand this thread is more about what actual engines will work, So I'll start a new one about this specific swap.

    At least maybe I can help somebody else in this situation. It seems like 85% of the people in this thread ask about the Z6 anyway.

    Oh by the way, How did you guys address the power steering interface problem? The Z6 and A6 use different belts. The Z6 pump is not a direct bolt in swap because of the fitting on the hose. It looks like the best way would be to swap crank pulleys, but I'm not 100% sure that they are identical. Couldn't get the pulley off my A6, so right now I'm running the single rib belt for the a6 pump with the 4 rib crank pulley. I only ran the car for like 15 seconds, it was a little whiney at first but it straightened out a bit and got quieter. Once I get the oil pickup done, I'll be able to make an assessment of how successful this particular ghetto-fabulous solution actually is.
  • lafwagonlafwagon Wagonist
    bikewrench---I borrowed a friends axle to try and found that it wouldn't fit. so guess I will tear the trans of and find a compatible block. thanks for all the help.
  • lafwagon wrote:
    bikewrench---I borrowed a friends axle to try and found that it wouldn't fit. so guess I will tear the trans of and find a compatible block. thanks for all the help.

    I was in a bind as well and put a b7 block in and ran only the one bolt in the intermediate shaft. I tried not to drive it hard and it lasted around 500mi before a rod snapped and made a window in the block.
  • I finally acquired an a6 block from a fellow member on here. and still using the b7 head. Can't seem to get it in time though. I am going to have to research what timing belt to run. the a6 deck height is 212mm and the b7 is 207mm.

    If anyone knows off hand please let me know!!
  • d15b2 in my rt4wd had a hole blown through the block in the stock d16a6 when I got it. swapped oil pans (direct fit no other changes) The intermediate shaft does only bolt up with one bolt but it has been like that for 2 months now seems to work fine. All that bolt does is hold the shaft up in place. There is no torque or tension(pressure) on it.
  • patprimmerpatprimmer Band Wagon
    jcchappy wrote:
    d15b2 in my rt4wd had a hole blown through the block in the stock d16a6 when I got it. swapped oil pans (direct fit no other changes) The intermediate shaft does only bolt up with one bolt but it has been like that for 2 months now seems to work fine. All that bolt does is hold the shaft up in place. There is no torque or tension(pressure) on it.

    \
    Ummm

    Yes there is. That is why the factory bother to use 3 quite large high grade steel bolts.

    When you run a CV joint at an angle it trys to open up the angle. The amount of thrust depends on how sharp the angle is and on how high the load is.
  • I'll post when it fails. Just saying if it was all someone had it will work
  • So let me get this straight... A D16A1 will not work because One mount is off? That's literally the only reason or did I miss something else?
  • CharbCharb Administrator
    503Wagon wrote:
    So let me get this straight... A D16A1 will not work because One mount is off? That's literally the only reason or did I miss something else?

    How much money will you be saving not just buying the ZC?

    bolt ins FTMFW
  • Charb1618 wrote:
    503Wagon wrote:
    So let me get this straight... A D16A1 will not work because One mount is off? That's literally the only reason or did I miss something else?

    How much money will you be saving not just buying the ZC?

    bolt ins FTMFW

    You don't know my price on the ZC lol. It will be way cheaper
  • glad you guys on here are so informative, I just stumbled across the fact the d15b wont be able to be swapped into the rt changes my plans a bit. you guys just saved me a lot of money. thanks
  • moff3ttmoff3tt Band Wagon
    Just thought I would share. I have this z6 block on my shelf one day I figure I will get around to putting in my wagon but it will need some work first.

    1.jpg?t=1315118236

    And here is what someone else has done to put an IS on an non-IS block:

    http://www.d-series.org/forums/transmis ... block.html
  • moff3tt wrote:
    And here is what someone else has done to put an IS on an non-IS block:

    http://www.d-series.org/forums/transmis ... block.html

    NICE FIND! Although I would say it looks like it will be a BITCH to change the oil filter.

    I noticed in your pic it says to mill that one area to be level. I never noticed that before. When we drilled/tapped the holes on mine, and bolted my IS up, we noticed something wasn't level, but we thought there's no way Honda would ship the blocks out with uneven landings. So we figured my IS bracket was warped. We snugged each bolt up a little bit at a time, evenly. Seemed to level out just fine. No problems with it so far after 6 months of daily pizza delivery.
  • Will a 92 SOHC ZC work in a RT4WD wagon? What else would I need tO make it work? I'm searching now but it is kind of an emergency! Thanks.
  • Dude, first post says SOHC ZC will work!

    Pretty much as long as you have those holes for the intermediate shaft bolts, or the bosses to drill them in, you are good.

    Just read through the first page of this thread really closely, and there's a lot of info there.

    then check out this thread here. to get an idea of what parts you need for the swap. the SOHC ZC and the Z6 are fairly similar motors, so most of this should be relevant to you.

    Is your ZC VTEC??? if so, its virtually identical to Z6.
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