rear speaker location options?

89rtmama

Hey y'all,

Quite the newbie to this whole thing. I've been driving my new 89 RT (Bluebell) for all of less than a week and already finding I need rear speakers badly. However I'm thinking I would like to put them in the rear doors rather than all the way in the back/hatch area ... not possible? I know the wires go to the hatch area but wires can be moved. At least I would think so. Hmm now that I think about it I'm not even sure how they'd get routed.

Corollary question ... if they do have to go into the hatch ... can they really be mounted using the OEM pods directly into the walls of the wheel wells? That space just doesn't look big enough to fit 6.5" speakers (which is what Crutchfield says will fit). And all the pics I've seen here are mounted external to the wheel wells in a custom-made deck or whatnot.

Anybody has rear speaker pods for sale, please pm me.

Also, any rear speaker recommendations? I'm partial to Infinity and am looking at the Kappa 62.7i's ... http://12.4.198.136/S-KrT87WqnGZR/cgi-bin/ProdView.asp?g=52000&I=108627I

Jenny

Haydz

Infinity Kappa's all the way.
Unless you go clarion..

The reason you won't see any threads about speakers in the rear doors is because you won't be able to wind the rear windows down more than halfway if you do. The glass can't slip down as far..

I have a JDM Shuttle so the speaker pods are a fair bit different but i can tell you this - they work well from back there.

As far as wire routing goes all you'd need to do is pull back the carpet, locate the wires running to the rear speakers and move them so they run inside the B pillar and out through a bung that the power window cables run through.

SiWagon

I remember some1 @ the old site that put a set(round) in the rear doors.I think it might be clsmooth.

You might consider building a rear cargo cvr,then you could mount a set of 6x9's(I'd HIGHLY recommend) &/or a Sub.A few member's here built a cvr.There's a few postings.Check in "Bodywork & Cosmetic Modifications".Start with this link:
http://www.hondacivicwagon.com/board/vi ... .php?t=477

Haydz

Yeah CLsmooth did do it but his rear windows couldn't go down further than halfway.

ragenasian

So why not build a spacer to go in between the door and the speaker like I did with the front??? This would push the speaker away from window allowing you to roll the window down.

duckie8310

if i remember correctly, clsmooth's speakers were spaced. they were already sticking out of the door a good .5" to 1" but that picture is longggg gone. and sadly, so is he

the pods would be a great mod to do. its simple, and it gives the stock look. personally, the rear deck is a great mod, because it always gives you the security of covering what's in your trunk. plus you can mount just about any size speaker you want.

as for speakers, are you going for highs or lows? or an overall average sound? those infinity's look like a good choice. maybe i'll look into it too :P

89rtmama

Just going for all-around good sound. My daily driver for the past couple of years has had 4 speakers with the Kenwood amp+subwoofer combo under the passenger seat and I guess I've gotten used to that nice round tone.

I like the idea of doing the rear doors & having the speakers stick out a bit -- I think there are some slimmer profile speakers out there, yes? Or am I getting confused? Seems a little less effort than building a cargo cover but then again would I have to cut holes in the doors???

Jenny

ragenasian

I have the JVC Carbon component set. I purchased them for 109 USD and it came with crossovers, tweeters, and 6 inch subs. They sound great and I haven't heard a bit of distortion yet at any level.

duckie8310

well, in my opinion, it wouldnt be easier. you would have to take make sure you cut that hole in the right place or you're SOL. then, the fitment issues (making sure nothing hits the window glass). and also, figuring out where to mount those speakers at. And like P said, you're gonna have to re-route the wires thru the b-pillar.

But there is the saying, you get what you put in. if you put in the work for this mod....it'll be damn worth it in the end.

ThatDoodle

try putting them in the rear hatch door. I did this with 2 6 inch kenwood speakers.

SiWagon

As far as your OEM Pod idea.It's a 5" hole.You could probably get a 6" hole in there by cutting into the pod towards the outside.It might look a little offset relative to the tray.I'd probably try to fit a 6x9 in though.

89rtmama

Hey siWagon,

Now I'm sorta confused. I didn't think there was actually already a set of speaker pod holes in the back, just a pop-out cover about the size of an eraser that lets you get the wires out? Don't you have to cut holes, or make a hatch cover or speaker box of some kind?

If there are already 5" holes, that'd be fine -- I don't absolutely need 6" speakers. Or are you referring to the speaker pods in the front doors?

I don't mind cutting the holes if necessary, actually I think it would be kindof a cool thing to have done even though it would be a serious pain in the rear. Thanks to the person who suggested the hatch door as a location. I wouldn't have thought of it, for sure, but I wonder if the sound is too distant? Hmm I might just put in 4 more speakers instead of just two ... ha ha, well I really do spend about 9 hours a week driving, so the sound thing is pretty important to me.

Jenny

Haydz

SiWagon is refferring to the optional rear pods that some of the wagons have. Its an option so if you cant see them you dont have them... someone might be selling a set though.

89rtmama

Hey I got a crazy idea when I was looking at the back doors earlier. What about putting small speakers in that would fit in the lower part of the door (below the bottom of the window when it's rolled all the way down)?

3.5" speakers ... or maybe ... 4" x 10" (the long way, obviously). Found some of the latter online, but they're OEM replacements for cars that have factory 4x10 speakers, so they don't come with grilles. Figure I could cut out a grille ... but would they fit? I can't find any internal measurements for the door panel, but they look like they might be able to fit a 4x10 in that bottom section. What do you all think of my certifiably crazy idea?

Jenny :idea:

Haydz

Pretty sure the glass goes right down, don't forget that below the sill is still a fair bit of glass and the regulator mechanism.. But i havn't actually looked inside the rear doors.

My Shuttle has 8x3" rear speakers from factory so its interesting that you bring up that size..

ragenasian

i like this idea. I don't sit in the back seats so putting speakers in the rear doors was overlooked during my stereo install. Since I have the rear cargo compartments it was just easier to install 6x9's in the rear but with the euro cover it muffles the sound. This would make for a great mod. I will have to look into this this weekend.

89rtmama

Ragenasian: If you check out the rear doors this weekend, please post what you find out -- just eyeballing the way the window rolled down into the door, it seemed to me as if the upper part of the interior door skin is sort of molded around the bottom of the window, leaving the bottom portion of the door as a possible speaker location -- if it's tall enough for 4" x 10" speakers that is.

Question #2 once we figure that out, if 4" x 10" would indeed fit, how do you add speaker grilles? The OEM-replacement 4" x 10" speakers you can buy are grille-less for some reason (I guess they assume your grilles are intact and you're just buying better sounding speakers than factory). I did see some OEM grille replacements for a particular model of truck, but they would have to be cut down (which might be just as much trouble as making your own in the first place, but at least you'd have guidelines for cutting).

Pacifier: 8"x3" would indeed be the perfect size for the back doors, I think, but I don't remember seeing any speakers smaller than 3.5" -- and even the 3.5" speakers I found were round ones (presumably fairly tinny -- but you never know, small speakers have come a long way).

Jenny

89rtmama

I found another Infinity Kappa option:

Kappa 462.7CFP 4x6" 2-Way Speaker
http://www.cartoys.com/Default.cfm/p/Ka ... y_Speaker/

They're 4 x 6 instead of 4 x 10, but look as if they're designed to be mounted vertically rather than horizontally (assuming the tweeter should be at the top, right?) So here's a super sound-geeky question, would these still sound good if they were mounted sideways? Because it seems to me as if they'd be easier to fit in the door than 4 x 10's (and probably easier to find or make grilles for as well). And I would much rather have Infinity than Pioneer or Kenwood (no offense to either brand intended, I just like Infinity!) which seem to be the only options for 4 x 10's out there.

Inquiring minds want to know ...

Jenny

duckie8310

i dont see why it wouldnt work normally while mounted sideways. just as long as you dont mount it backwards, you're fine. keep the tweeter uncovered and opent o some air and you'll hear the sound you want

ragenasian

Okay even though it has just dropped below freezing here in wonderful germany I will put this on my things to do and snap some pictures for everybody because I really want to know.

I should be able to fab up something to put in just about any size speaker but I am thinking about another set of 5's or 6's for back there. 4x10 seems a little too long for that rear door. The 4x6 option would be too bad and if you really wanted to get crazy Blaupunkt has a set of 4x6 that are clear so you could put LED's behind them and have the whole speaker light up. That is only if you wanted something like that

If you look at my other thread "door speaker pod" I should be able to make something like that for the rears too.

@ries

89rtmama wrote:

Hey I got a crazy idea when I was looking at the back doors earlier. What about putting small speakers in that would fit in the lower part of the door (below the bottom of the window when it's rolled all the way down)?



Jenny :idea:

when i looked the other day, i measured that you can put a 5.25" speaker where i think you're talking about. just make sure the speaker is shallow enough. (so it soesn't hit the bottom of the window)

89rtmama

OK, I don't remember how to spell it. But thank you, Ragenasian, for taking the time to look at this and take photos -- in the freezing cold no less!

I'd probably skip the clear Blaupunkts, although that sounds fun and would provide my son with hours of staring pleasure. The 4x6 Infinity set would be just fine ... I can't wait to be able to really hear the music again.

Hey, does anybody know about FM sensitivity figures? What I read was that when looking at the dBf figure for a given head unit, "lower is better" -- but there wasn't any scale given, so it's hard to tell what's good and what's not so good. One receiver I'm looking at is rated at 15 dBf, and another is rated at 9 dBf. Is that a "hearable" difference? (If I knew the dBf of my current unit it would at least give me a point of reference, because reception is pretty terrible.) But all I know about it is that it's a Blaupunkt CD unit with 12fm and 6am stations. And that it can't get a good signal for the stations I listen to the most.

I am totally geeking out on this stuff ... checked out a book from the library called the Car Stereo Cookbook (c2005 so not too dated). Alas, it says the same thing, for dBf "lower is better".

Jenny

keith750

FM Sensitivity tells you how well a receiver can pick up FM radio signals. Smaller values are better - they indicate an ability to pick up weaker stations. Expressed in decibel femtowatts (dBf). So as far as hearing a difference, the only hearing issue will be being able to hear your stations come in better. if you get one with a low sensitivity that is.

89rtmama

"Smaller values are better" -- exactly! But, is 9dBf a whole lot better than 15dBf, or just a little better? In other words, is the full range of possible values large, in which case a 6dBf difference isn't that significant, or small, in which case a 6dBf difference could be quite significant? That's what I'm trying to figure out.

So I got smart and actually looked at the unit I currently have -- it's a Blaupunkt RPD 435. I downloaded the manual for it from the Blaupunkt website and guess what, it says the dBf rating is actually better than either of the replacement units I've been looking at -- 6dBf.

Color me confused, because FM on this thing seems just terrible. It will often skip past stations that my previous (factory Subaru) receiver got very clearly. Seek sensitivity is supposed to be 22dBf, and selectivity is supposed to be 80dB at 400 kHz.

Jenny

89rtmama

I peeled the plastic grille off the front speaker on the driver's side and found what I believe to be a factory speaker. So now I'm thinking that what I'll do, instead of leaping to add rear speakers right away, is see what can be done by putting in a greatly improved set of front speakers plus an amp/sub.

The car stereo book I checked out makes an interesting recommendation that I've never seen before, which is to balance your front/rear speakers so that the sound is heavily weighted towards the front -- basically leaving the rear as filler at a relatively low level. That's when I realized that maybe what I needed to do was improve the sound quality at the front before I bother trying to add new speakers.

Nonetheless -- if I do add rear speakers I think I will put them in the rear doors, as we've been discussing. Seems like a neat mod to do.

Jenny

ragenasian

If you have never replaced the speakers in your front doors then you will probably want to do so. It is very easy to do and your front speakers will more then likely be in need of replacment (if you haven't changed them before). Mine were stock, still worked but the difference in sound just by replacing those two was great. I put larger than stock in the front so I was forced to make a pod to make them fit without hitting the window. You will also find that the rear of the wagon makes for great bass. I have a Phoenix Gold Xenon sub 10" in the back of my wagon with a 1000 watt kenwood and it has the ability to pound the whole car (I don't like it that hard though). You don't need a lot in these little wagons because there isn't anything muffling the sound of the bass. Just make sure you get the correct box and sub combo to get the most out of your sub.

Sorry I didn't have a chance to check out the rear doors. The wife had me moving crap all weekend but it is on my list of to-do things!!!

89rtmama

No worries on the rear doors, Ragenasian -- that is way down the road for me I think, at this point. The sub I'm looking at is a Kenwood that slides under the passenger seat (though I've heard the waggies have some kind of storage box under there that might be in the way) & has a built-in amp. Don't recall the model but I'll post it if there's interest. It's the sub that came in my WRX and it worked well for the kind of listening I do which is definitely not the thumping-bass variety.

Jenny

89rtmama

Anybody using these? (Polk MMC650) At first I thought -- eh, just marketing hype, they say Momo on them! Woo hoo! But ... according to the description they're supposed to be really great (per Crutchfield and its 8 or so user-written reviews). Crutchfield doesn't show them as fitting in the front -- possibly they're too deep -- but I wonder if it's possible to get them in there anyway?

Link to the Polk Momos:
http://www.crutchfield.com/S-WUt7Cn4mGX ... =107MMC650

Jenny

Kahuna

The mounts for the stock speakers on the front are pretty shallow. I had a cheap set of Roadmasters (Walmart Speakers) in the front until I got my Phoenix Golds in there. Anyways, the PGs are too deep, but the Cheapos fit perfect. If you want, I can go get the size off of the cheapos.

The front is 5.25 inches. This is how I did my front and rear speakers:




Note:
The front speaker grills weren't finished in the pictures, so they have an ugly gap in them.

ragenasian

I also have a set of Phoenix Gold XENON components x6.5s. They are very nice speakers and sound great.

As for the Momo/Polks I was intrigued by those and read a lot about them and never heard anything bad about them. Of course some of that money will go to the small little MOMO logo that is on there. I think they are a little too expensive for what is there and while I was researching them I never could find a place that stocked or displayed them. So I never could test them against another brand but they do sound from what I have read like good speakers. I do however like my Xenons. Here is how I mounted my larger speakers in the front doors to keep them from sitting too deep.

http://www.hondacivicwagon.com/board/vi ... php?t=1003

duckie8310

Polk's are awesome. my front and subs are polks, and they sound great! usually, polk's are good for highs, so you'll get the best sound out of those momos because they're better than the db-series (what i have) the db525's i have sound wonderful, so you wont have any complaints with those mmc650's.