Recharching A/C
ionic_scream
Band Wagon
I wasn't sure where to put this post so i ended up putting it here in electronics, but anyway. As far as i know right now my A/C works but i never really use it. but when i have tried to use it, the fans work but the air never really gets cold. Could i fix this by just recharching my A/C? or could it be a deeper problem?
Comments
Shouldn't be expensive, costs about $50 here.
Get this stuff called Johnson's Freeze 12. It's the equivalent of R12, but the tree huggers won't tell you that, and they tell you-you have to drain your A/C and dispose blah blah blah. B/S!
Freeze 12 mixes with your existing fluid and works fine. It's all over Ebay so have a looky.
I bought three bottles for around $25 so it's not too expensive. Just get some guages and your good to go.
Most all cars from 93ish and down used R12, then the tree-huggers (EPA) decided it was bad for the emvironment and went to R134.
Mine still had R12 in it, and the Freeze12 works great.
Next look to the left(facing engine) where the AC hoses go into the firewall.On 1 of the 2 hoses should be a screw on cap.Unscrew it & you'll see a schreader valve(bike valve). Press it to see if there's pressure in it.DON'T press too long.If it hisses....RUN like hell...It's a snake
CHeck the fuses,weither the compressor & radiator fan goes on,etc.
:arrow: The best thing to do is get a Honda shop Manual(around $50).BEST investment you'll make.It has a great AC trouble shooting chart.Check the Wagon's link (the link to the manual mught be in russian)or the web.There's a site some where that shows the whole manual.
:arrow: If possible stay with the R12(OEM).That new R134 isn't as cold.If you convert to R134 all the seals need to be replaced with R134 compatible seals(in R134 kit).You'll have to do the math to see which way you go.R12 is expensive.Don't listen to the green guys.Some shops :evil: will fill yours with R134(NOT legal).
Don't forget i'm in NZ and driving a Japanese car.. Cars here havn't used freon for a long time, before mine was made. Plus when cars come into the country, if they do happen to have freon they are recharged with the supposedly less harmful gas.
I hope you sleep well at night. Using the more dangerous gas because its colder is pretty lame.
:arrow: One of the ways to maintain your AC is to use it for at least 5 minutes/month.I use my AC very rarely like ionic_scream.The reason to run the AC is to circulate the oil in the freon to lube the seals.
Its just as illegal to vent R-134a to the atmosphere as R-12. Any ozone depleting chemical should be handled by a professional, or rather someone with access to professional equipment because any monkey can do this stuff. If you're not convinced by the "tree hugger" mentality, you need to wake up. Just because you don't like the hippie granola crunching messanger, doesn't invalidate the message.
There are a number of CFC, HCFC replacements (Duracool, Freeze-12 etc) that are legal under a series of technicalities. Some are still under review by the EPA. And while its legal to buy them now, a future ruling could make them entirely illegal(and very expensive if you're caught using them).
I'd be especially concerned about the blends that contain propane and butane. There are even some individual state laws these prevent flammable refridgerants from being used in automotive applications.
Think about it...you get in a small fender bender, your condensor in the front bumper gets crunched, starts venting in that hot engine bay and *poof* instant car fire. So yeah, they may be cheap, but ask yourself if that was worth it as your car is burning.
A system designed for R-134 works just as well as a system designed for R-12.
The problem that people experience is when you retrofit a R-12 system to accept R-134. "It doesn't cool as well" is the common complaint.
There are a few problems with the retrofit...
1. R-12 and R-134 do NOT mix well. In fact they react somewhat violently. Inside a closed A/C system, this is bad news. So don't add 134a to your R-12 system and think you're retrofitting.
2. R-134 operates more effectively at a higher pressure than R-12. The A/C tech should make sure its in the right range, but you know how some mechanics/shops are...if the acceptable range is (and I'm pulling these figures out of my a$$) 60-80psi and ideal performance is 70-72, they'll settle for anywhere in the 60-80 range. And the other related problem is that some old/tired systems can't cope with the additional pressure and fail shortly after conversion.
3. There are two possible compressor units in Civics/CRXs. Matsushita and Sanden. Now, the story goes, the matsushita units do not retrofit well. I've read that there are valves/seals inside that have absorbed some R-12. When the R-12 is vacummed out, either not all the R-12 is pulled out of the seals and the incoming R-134 reacts with it, chewing up the seal or the seal, lossing some mass, shrivels enough to leak.
R-12 is just getting ridiculous expensive so a lot of people convert. It makes financial sense. Just know what you're getting yourself into.
when converted and charged correctly, except for certain exceptions, 134A can cool just as well as 12. the exceptions are systems that are marginal to begin with; i haven't had A/C in my EE in years, so i don't know about the systems in them. but early Jaguar XJ-S cars are an example of a marginal system - when new, they didn't cool particularly well. converted to 134A, they're worse.
All I know is that I've put it in my car, and it works fine.
so what i am getting here is that we do have the R12 on all the wagon's from oem.
we dont want to mix the new 134 and the r12.
we can do this our selves, but what do we need to do this?
Correct
we dont want to mix the new 134 and the r12.
No, I don't know why, but it's a different kind of chemical makeup.
we can do this our selves, but what do we need to do this?
Yes, you will need some guages to hook to the A/C lines, so you don't overfill, and a bottle or so (depending on how low your freon is) of the Freeze 12.
USDM does, other countries vary.
i thought there was a kit that allows you to do this at home.
also can you guys elaborate on the little bubble?
You look like you need a vacation. :? In Mexico they still use(R12.Check it out b4 u go).Take your GF head down to Mexico & refill your AC.It'll probably be inexpensive too. 8) 8)
I think the bubble thing is if you look into the site glass & see bubbles you need Freon.
i noticed my a/c not working much at all yesterday when the temp finally hit about 80 degrees outside. so after just washing the wagon, i thought i would run the a/c today, i almost never use the a/c only to run it once in a while or when it hits about 99 degrees or more will i use it. well i got nothing out of it, nothing cold i mean. just air but nothing cold, the pump seem to work as i can see the rpm going up a bit and i can hear it. so i assumed the freon was low or out. so i was curious how much to add the chemical. i went to a local place that i know, he is kinda a hack it and chop it shop but his prices are really good tho. i wouldnt bring it to him otherwise. so i dont think this could hurt so i went there. really nice day yesterday by the way.
he hit the escape nozzle under the intake pipe. well something came out pretty strong. he then said there are no leaks. what he can do for me is that he can convert this system to the new version and use the new freon type. it would run about 120.00. all he would have to do is flush out the system and add a new fitting for the new system to attach too. then he would add more.
or
i could just have him flush out the old and add a new batch of old version freon.
i asked whats the diff to me, i aleady know about the environmental stuff.
he said that they are doing away with the old, which i knew that, and that it cost more per pound. the new version is cheaper and i can refill it myself in the furture when the a/c doesnt work too well again. i would not be able to buy the older one myself. with the new one i can go buy it at a parts place.
the other thing is that the older is a bit stronger. about 5 degrees colder when used.
so for him to just flush and recharge its gonna be 80.00
for him to flush and modify it for the new system 120.00
cold air for the estimated, next 3 years, priceless!
my question is, will this be ok for the a/c condensor and pump if i switch to the new freon?
:arrow: TIP:With AC you need to run it at least 5-10 minutes/month to lube the system & seals.
the cost came out to be about 60 bucks. if your local to socal hit me up and i can take you there to where i got it done and he will fill u up with the old version or newer version. i stuck with the older because im cruising down to vegas and its gonna be hot this week. he showed me with a i/r temp reader on how cold it got in the car. pretty cool. he said if the system works well he has seen in other cars the temp hit the negative 10's and -20's degree's on some cars systems. on the newer freon it only hits about +30 degrees and that about it. so i feel kinda good sticking with the older freon.
as for the repairs he thinks its the relay. the reason was because its my fault. when i made room for my newer larger batter i took off the relay from the mounts and left them hanging upside down in the engine bay. will i think water got to them and now when the a/c button is on both fans runs. but the condensor won't turn on either so i get no cold air but fans will run. i plan on getting the relays tested somewhere before i fork out money to replace them. as for a quick patch fix so i can get to vegas he just used a jumper link on a wire past the relays to an off/on wire that still works with the a/c button. when i get back i can just take it off once the problem is fixed.
at the dealership its costs about $60+ but at autozone they are 29.00 bucks. but the problem is that each store only has 1 relay. so i had to go to a few stores to see which ones had it.
i got them and stuck them in.
the a/c worked.
now i have to wait to see if it still have problems over time.