NOOB QUESTION: What engine parts to upgrade a swap with?
FSC4wd
familEE
OK, I'm going down to LA at the end of the month for an engine(SOHC ZC). What parts should I consider upgrading? I'm not talking IM or any bolt on stuff. I'm talking bolts, valves, springs, and so on. Things to consider when answering. I'm going for performance with economy in mind. In other words I want to bump up the performace without having to change to a higher octane or loosing too much fuel economy.
Planned swap(thanks everybody here who helped especially Davens and Pacifier):
SOHC ZC
integra pistons
Hondata IM gasket
New injectors
D16y8 manifold
60mm TB
DC headers
Catco Cat
2.25 pipe out
Upgrade the grounding
Larger alt.
Planned swap(thanks everybody here who helped especially Davens and Pacifier):
SOHC ZC
integra pistons
Hondata IM gasket
New injectors
D16y8 manifold
60mm TB
DC headers
Catco Cat
2.25 pipe out
Upgrade the grounding
Larger alt.
Comments
New injectors - eh new? I'm not convinced this is necessary. If you have a set of "old" injectors, flow test and cleaning runs $48. Check out:
http://cruzinperformance.com/fuelinj.html
D16y8 manifold - make sure you get a 5sp/manual, not the auto
Larger alt. - a 92-95 Civic Si alternator "supposedly" bolts on and makes 5 more amps than the 88-91. I haven't tried this personally.
And if I were you, I'd be looking at an adjustable fuel pressure regulator. Just so you can add a little more fuel for the additional air ingested and increased compression ratio.
What kind of ECU are you currently running?
That earthing kit is quite important, also make sure you add an earth that runs from the TB to the firewall. Make sure you use quality ring terminals and solder the wire in there.
Why the larger alt.Running so heavy beats?
Go down to Pick N Pull south S.J. There's 2 wagons down there.That was a few weeks ago.Don't know if it's still there.Don't remember about the frt.bumper,but I think the doors were fine.Good Luck.
I'd suggest keeping the stock (new!) head gasket if you are bumping compression with those pistons. I wouldn't touch the cams but i would do valves and springs... keeping in mind guys, this is a mild build...
As far as the grounds go, the only one that will have an effect is the one going from the TB to firewall, hence why i said to add that. Do they not come with a valve cover ground from stock over there on the '88's?
You could opt for the d15b vtec or the sohc zc vtec. Both make around 128 hp. And if you can keep off the vtec lobe, they get incredible mpg.
While the expense for the two engines is pretty similar, the vtecs would be best served by doing the an obd-1 conversion, and that adds a little extra expense. But no engine internals/pistons to buy and install so it balances out.
Just something to think about.
The only thing about the later(92+) sohc engines is that Honda quit tapping the blocks for the intermediate shaft. The casting holes are still there, they just aren't tapped/threaded. Which you can totally do. Or have done for cheap.
I only mentioned it because its at least worth looking into. You're gonna be at the engine place...ask to see one of each.
The vtec lobe...if you stay off of the aggressive, higher rpm lobe i.e. shifting by 4500rpms, the lower lobe is very mpg friendly. THis dual role is what vtec was designed for. Forget everything you've ever heard from riceboys.
I think you'd need to buy a new ECU as well... which one i am not sure - i'm not schooled up on too much about VTEC.
Tapping the block may only cost you a box of beers or a bit more maybe.
http://www.crx-nation.com/viewtopic.php?p=253#253
edit'd my post for now. must read the thread before posting!! :P
sohc zc - both vtec and non vtec (im still skeptical that there really is a vtec sohc zc-- so little info and all the pics just look like d15bs
dohc zc - non vtec
d15b - both vtec and non vtec
Bolt pattern being the same...I am sure.
What I wasn't sure about was the rt4wd tranny bolting up to any of the aforementioned engines. They're different for my generation.
Yes, the ecu is part of a obd-1 conversion.
offered in the 92-95 civic/del slow in europe its the same thing we had here.
and also the a6 block is the same as the z6 (other than maybe some extra webbing in the casting and supposedly stronger sleeves)
anyway the difference between an a6 and a z6 is in the head, pistons, and headgasket
so the trans WILL bolt up.
I hope this isnt too confusing!!
I can't lie, the idea of a Vtec is nice. I'll roll with P's idea of calling the importer and seeing if the SOHC ZC and the ZC Vtec are similar. I can deal with buying a different ECU and the OBD1 conversion. Assuming the D15B Vtec bolts up, what's the difference between the D15B Vtec and the ZC Vtec?
exactly what integra pistons are you trying to put in? bseries are 81 mm bore while d series is 75 mm bore. you can purchase darton sleeves which can be bored to about 78 - 78.5 if I remember correctly.
anyway just wondering what setup you are trying to run.
edit: oops its been a long day... I imagine you are going to use the d16a1s...
86-87 and 88-89 Integra engines were D-series. Those pistons are a direct swap...no need for crazy custom engine work.
Now, there's absolutely nothing wrong with the first setup you discussed (sohc zc + pitons). But, the sohc zc vtec and d15b vtec are going to make the roughly same power but with the added benefit of better fuel economy potential and the ability to use 87 octane.
The obd-1 conversion and the piston swap expense pretty much cancel each other out, so there isn't an upfront financial advantage to one or the other.
I highly recommend reading my zc spec post: http://www.hondacivicwagon.com/board/vi ... php?p=7749
But in a nutshell:
The D15b vtec is rated at 130ps/6,800rpm and torque peak of 14.1kgm/5,200rpm. Or 128.221613HP and 101.9853 lb-ft of torque
The sohc zc was rated at 118.35HP and 104.8785 lb-ft of torque.
The sohc zc vtec was rated at 130ps/6,600rpm and 14.8kgm/5,200
Or 128.221613HP and 107.0484 lb-ft of torque
The larger displacement of the 1.6l zc engines will yield marginally more torque. But the D15b vtec 1.5l matches (or beats the sohc zc) in HP. It manages this with a very aggressive vtec lobe. But, again, if you stay out of the vtec, the 1.5 liter engine will deliver outstanding mpg.
http://hybrid2.honda-perf.org/tech/sohcvtec.html
In the US its will be labeled as a D16z6 for 92-95 and D16y8 for 96-00.
But you'll will be getting a japanese spec version of that motor. It does not have these codes. It is simply called sohc zc vtec.
The block should be labeled "ZC" on the engine ID plate.
It should be obvious that it is sohc and you just need to look for the vtec solenoid(or the valve cover will sometimes say vtec).
I wouldn't mess with any engine internals(ie valve springs) this go round, except maybe a mild cam upgrade.
I would concentrate on getting it installed, work out the kinks and do some tuning before doing any internal modification. One of the reasons I suggested this engine was because it would get you in the same HP ballpark as your previous plan without having to do any internal work. Once you start messing with this stuff, power goes up, but fuel economy drops off dramatically.
I'd be inclined to think the SOHC VTEC ZC would be a better choice over the D16Z6 as you'll get lower mileage for a relatively similar price... or am i wrong?
This is absolutely correct. Try and find a usdm D16z6 with...
(a) under 100k on it
(b) under $500 pricetag
(c) complete, not missing anything
(d) with some kind of warranty
...it is damn near impossible.
However, you get all these things from a decent JDM engine importer.
Also...this link http://hybrid2.honda-perf.org/tech/sohcvtec.html
(talk about a flashback) is older than dirt. While the information is correct, it is missing 7+ years of Hybrid tech advancements.
The best way to run a sohc vtec motor is to do the obd-1 conversion.
Buy an ecu jumper harness (Rywire.com or kenji211.com) and it is remarkably easy. Not only will the obd-1 conversion run the engine with stock performance/reliability, it gives you a lot of options for upgrading to all the good EMS like CROME, Uberdata, Hondata etc. later on down the road.
if you have a lot of money to spend why not get a z6 and rebuild it if you are really concerned about the condition.
I have been able to find a z6 with 60 kilometers on the clock before, you just have to keep your eyes out for them, and may have to do a little driving to pick it up.
also as far as smog goes it would be much easier to smog/bar a d16z6 than a vtec zc
yes you can. the only difference you'll see is that the stock driver's side mount for the z6 will sit slightly different in your engine bay
You're talking out of your....
The sohc vtec zc are common. The fact that they are the same as the D16z6 is good. The larger engine importers sell direct replacement engines as much as they sell hot rod swap engines. And alot more expensive? Not really ($125-200).
And for smog...the sohc ZCs are allowed because of this sameness.
The only reason ZC family gets a bad rap is because the dohc zc. Since there was no comparable engine sold in the US, it is illegal in Cali. And if you try and tell us the 86-89 Integra engine was the same, I'll smack you.
Unless ZC VTEC's have gotten a LOT more common in the last 1-2 years, I've seen about 1/50th as many of those as I've seen SOHC and DOHC ZC's. I've been doing this Honda thing since '96.
Maybe in Texas ZC's are allowed, but in Cali, with our lovely CARB, no ZC's here, they are ALL illegal. That of course doesn't mean you can't slip one by your local smog guy. Just watch out for the CHP, they just got done funding another 21 million or so bill to educate them on how to write more tickets... err I mean enforce the retarded CARB laws... errr help the public breath cleaner air. I'm glad they value my tax money soooo much.
So...
sohc ZC = D16a6...legal sohc ZC vtec = D16z6...legal dohc ZC = nothing...not legal 1st gen B16 = nothing...not legal
Check out: http://www.norcalcrx.org/library/calegalswaps.shtml