When to Shift Gears

morriswilmorriswil Band Wagon
in Engine & Drivetrain
I have been driving manual trannys for 20 years now (damn I'm get'n old). I prefer them over automatics, not only because Im a control freak but I think they also keep me more awake and alert. Occasionally I'll have a bit of a friendly argument with another control control freak passenger (that would rather he/she be in the driver's seat) about when is the "correct" moment/RPM to shift to a higher or lower gear while accelerating or decelerating. By "correct", I mean the most friendly on the overall health of the engine.
I've had my Wagon since only this past summer and..being that there is a small hole in the muffler (AKA noise), I've been contemplating my RPM and shifting.
General question is for you all...What do you think is the best cruising RPM for your wagon at each gear? When do you shift? Do you downshift or just brake to slow? I'd love to hear how you fuel/engine minded wagon owners move through the gears.
Some drivers run it high..say 3000RPM before shifting. I am on the low side...about 2500RPM. Does anyone think I'm lugging the engine too hard?

Comments

  • HaydzHaydz Moderator
    I shift when the engine tells me to shift. It's something you hear/feel/experience. There is no set RPM.
  • bam-bambam-bam Council Member
    In general, shifting at lower RPMs will yield better fuel economy. 2500ish is also where the transmission is happiest. Sometimes on my commute I try not to use the clutch the whole way, and 23-2500 is where you can rev-match easily.

    Other(most :oops: ) times I shift at 7000. Soon I will make that 8500.
  • progressprogress Wagonist
    I too like to let the engine tell me when to shift. Kinda like a zen feeling, being one with your car thing. With my crx with the DPFI I shifted at around 3000-3500. With the rt4wd wagon, it's more like 4000-4500.
  • Eagle BeagleEagle Beagle familEE
    Maximum Allowable Speeds
    The speeds shown are the maximum at
    which the car can be driven or downshifted
    in each gear without over-revving the engine.
    1st 53km/h (33mph)
    2nd 88km/h (55mph)
    3rd 132km/h (82mph)
    (On the 4WD)
    SL 32km/h (20mph)
    1st 45km/h (28mph)
    2nd 75km/h (47mph)
    3rd 116km/h (72mph)
    Recommended Shift Speeds
    For best fuel economy, and effective emission
    control, shift at the speeds shown...
    1st - 2nd 24km/h (15mph)
    2nd - 3rd 43km/h (27mph)
    3rd - 4th 62km/h (39mph)
    4th - 5th above 86km/h (53mph)
    quote page 72
    viewtopic.php?f=16&t=7804
  • ragenasianragenasian Moderator
    My wife shifts low and gets pretty damn good MPG. I tend to not give a crap about the gas (since we pay half of what the local Germans pay) so I let it out. Shift low = better mpg, shift high = lots more fun.
  • sometimesidosometimesido New Wagonist
    ragenasian wrote:
    My wife shifts low and gets pretty damn good MPG. I tend to not give a crap about the gas (since we pay half of what the local Germans pay) so I let it out. Shift low = better mpg, shift high = lots more fun.

    ah....gotta love on base gas stations in other countries.

    when I was stationed in Korea, it was around $2.30 per liter outside. PER LITER!!!

    back on topic: good info Eagle Beagle.
  • morriswilmorriswil Band Wagon
    OK, Let me simplify the Q... You're cruising along at 40mph..What gear are you in? Also, what's the minimum speed that you'll drive in 5th?
  • HaydzHaydz Moderator
    Eagle Beagle wrote:
    Recommended Shift Speeds
    For best fuel economy, and effective emission
    control, shift at the speeds shown...
    1st - 2nd 24km/h (15mph)
    2nd - 3rd 43km/h (27mph)
    3rd - 4th 62km/h (39mph)
    4th - 5th above 86km/h (53mph)

    Based on the above, 40MPH would be 4th gear and you wouldn't shift into 5th until 53MPH.
  • Eagle BeagleEagle Beagle familEE
    4th - 5th above 86km/h (53mph)
    i'll give you this :mrgreen:
    ABOVE 85km/h (53mph) 4th - 5th

    I think it got something to do with common...
    ...sense or knowledge...

    there is the table/chart
    4-5th rule/line accompanied with the word
    ABOVE that makes all the difference

    Honda safety-rules...
    at that point you will be
    reaching 100km/h to 60mph-ish

    and 5 is OVERDRIVE...
    hope everbody is familiar with the meaning of overdrive...

    so yeah... i dont know...
    good point...
    you'r right, you allllright you
  • SiWagonSiWagon Council Member
    As far as your muffler check under the above ,"Engine Quicklinks".Under 2nd posting click on :
    HOWTO:Make the muffler last way longer

    I use to be with everyone about shifting when the engine tells you,but found out I was hearing the wrong voice.My shifts are done at 2,000rpm most of the times.I'll shift higher for hills or heavier loads(cargo or mo passengers).You'll be surprised that it does not lug the engine.I've been using this technique for a few years now.My gas mileage went up 1O%.I learned this from a hypermiler,but they do it while depressing the gas pedal 80% down ,which does lug the motor.
  • HaydzHaydz Moderator
    From the looks the OP was more concerned about engine health and if that's the case you wouldn't sit in any gear at around 2000rpm. Pretty sure you'd be begging for knock, especially in 5th gear.
  • morriswilmorriswil Band Wagon
    Thanks folks for the responses, I guess I'll stop hitting 5th around 45mph.... :oops:
    But the thought of running in 3rd as far as 82mph makes me cringe, Ive seen too many teenagers in tricked out Hondas around here trailing blue smoke.

    Next muffler, I'll definately will do the drill thing, thanks
  • NengchangNengchang New Wagonist
    :P 45 mph that's crazy! I would hate to be the person in backe of u.
    How can u shift so fast that must be slow. Well now u know when to shift.
    Have fun and now drive like a pro lol.
  • SiWagonSiWagon Council Member
    There's nothing wrong with 45mph in 5th.That's around 24OO rpm.You're right the shifts are fast,but that's fun.From the view of the driver behind ,you cannot tell.It doesn't take much HP to cruise along the highway at 55mph.Engine health isn't affected.There's NO knock.
  • wagodizzlewagodizzle Council Member and EDM expert
    morriswil wrote:
    Also, what's the minimum speed that you'll drive in 5th?

    ~20 mph. sucks, but its been done lol
  • HaydzHaydz Moderator
    20mph in 5th is seriously begging for problems.
  • wagodizzlewagodizzle Council Member and EDM expert
    Haydz wrote:
    20mph in 5th is seriously begging for problems.
    coasting, no throttle. im pretty sure the car wouldnt be able to move itself with throttle lol
    why is it begging for problems though?
  • Eagle BeagleEagle Beagle familEE
    shifts are done at 2,000rpm
    or lower..hahaha...reminds my of my V8's...
    no knock whatever with that extra tap...
    why is it begging for problems though?
    because, uhm... its you ?!!
    :mrgreen:
  • HaydzHaydz Moderator
    LOL but it's not a V8 it's a 1600 4cyl.
  • Eagle BeagleEagle Beagle familEE
    LOL but it's not a V8 it's a 1600 4cyl.
    oh, now I know why I drive an auto...
  • morriswilmorriswil Band Wagon
    Back in the days, I drove the Air cooled VW's, Buses, bugs, bajas. I drove 'em hard on road AND off...Kept up with the traffic on the road AND the rednecks in the woods. I bored the engines, rebuilt them (sometimes overnight)..long story short..I burned myself out... Doesn't matter, Honda, VW, whatever...Today, I'd rather spend my weekends doing something other than rebuilding an engine because I pushed it beyond what it was made to perform. I tore up a lot of VW's out there.. it was fun, but these were cars built before, or around about he time I was born. It just sucks to see kids out there tearing up the cars (amazingly efficient, super awesome cars!) that were built before or around the time that THEY were born. Oh well, I got mine..and she's gonna last.

    Whoo! That's gonna get some mixed responses. Take it easy on the new guy :wink:
  • broodybroody New Wagonist
    my 87 4wd has no power so I shift closer to 3000 than 2500, a least on low gears or small hills. On flat, from 3rd to 5, I can pass around 2500, but from 2nd to 3rd the gap is too big.
    Also, it sounds like it's not the drivetrain (more like engine/muffler) but in 4wd if I shift too low (like 2-3 at 20mph) and I accelerate a bit the car makes some sounds and rattle (in the rear), when I'm in 2wd (with the switch on the tranny) it's smoother at low rpm. If I don't accelerae, I put my 5th around 40mph. I used to drive a 1.0 geo metro, my civic feels like it has a lot of torque now.

    But I think these cars are reliable, I don't rev it high so often but I don't think it's really bad, especially on 88-91.
  • 89ac_EE289ac_EE2 Wagonist
    what about down shifting?
  • Eagle BeagleEagle Beagle familEE
    capacity, power, torque etc. vary ...
    is it about economy or...
    maximum accelaration ...

    example:
    has no power so I shift closer to

    maybe a shift at torque or rpm how-to explanation..
    in a new topic...

    it's a calculation based on many elements to complete the set...
  • leWolfleWolf Senior Wagonist
    Well on dead flat ground for me I shift at 3000, on slightly hilly 3500-4000 is normal. With DPFI there is no point to beating the crap out of it, it still doesnt go anywhere! :lol:
  • SiWagonSiWagon Council Member
    There's nothing wrong with traveling around at 2OOOrpm.
    Eagle Beagle wrote:
    Recommended Shift Speeds
    For best fuel economy...shift at the speeds shown...
    1st - 2nd 24km/h (15mph)
    2nd - 3rd 43km/h (27mph)
    3rd - 4th 62km/h (39mph)
    4th - 5th above 86km/h (53mph)
    According to the above Honda chart you'd be in:
    1st @ around a 1000rpm+
    2nd @ 1700 rpm+
    3rd @ 2000 rpm+
    4th @ 2100 rpm+
    5th @ 2400 rpm.+
  • HaydzHaydz Moderator
    I'm talking about cruising below 2000rpm. I wouldn't in these cars.
  • broodybroody New Wagonist
    For cruising or very slow acceleration 2000rpm is fine, but in the traffic, t follow well the flow, 2500 is better.
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