RT4WD Auto-Manual Conversion Qustions

theidealone

So I was wondering, what will it take to convert it? Ive seen a few threads about auto to manual conversions for 2WD, which is pretty text book. But I wanted to know what am I going to need for the 4WD? I saw a thread showing some control unit for the auto tranny, located under the driver's seat. I obviously need shift linkage, the tranny, pedal assembly, etc...

But what about the transfer case, driveshaft, axles, etc???

Thanks a lot in advance for any help!

stampern

Well, I think you got most of it. I've never done one of these, so I don't know exactly what would be needed on the wiring side. But most of the automatics I've worked on do have different axles, not sure if that's the same on the RT. But you got most of it. Pedal assy, manual shifter, clutch and flywheel, possibly axles. The other thing I would double check is motor mounts. Make sure you get all the motor mounts off of the manual RT incase they are different. Can't really think of anything else that's different.

evol911

The passenger side motor mount is different on the manual RT4wd than any other EF(EE,ED) chassis. Plus its a cable linkage for the manual stickshift. Transfer cases are part of the transmission and are in the same spot on both the automatic and manual RT4wd trans. Drive shafts are the same also. Rt4wds use an intermediate shaft/ equal length halfshaft like DOHC ZC's but I don't remember if they are the same. As for a parts list: Manual ECU(PM6), manual Rt4wd trans, shifter/interior mounting bracket, shifter cables, passenger side motor mount, possibly intermediate shaft/ halfshafts (I do believe you can run the regular unequal length halfshafts on the RT4wd), and something that we argued about recently is the actually mounting bracket on the passenger side might be manual RT4wd specific but I don't completely remember what the outcome of that was. HCW memeber Jaker would be the one to talk to, he knows his shit.

Only problem with doing this swap... finding the parts at a reasonable price. Probably best to find a wrecked manual RT4wd for parts.

Jaker

You'll need to do some wiring mods at the auto shifter area to bypass some "starter" issues when going manual. There's a big interlock switch on the auto shifter that won't let the starter crank unless the shifter is in Park or Neutral.

Also, you'll need to run some wires from the auto shifter to the tranmisssion, because the reverse lights are activated by a switch at the shifter in the auto, and obviously at the transmission for the manual tranny.

I will stick to my guns on the whole mount story: the piece that is spot welded in the engine compartment on the right side frame rail just above the transmission is specific to the manual transmission RT4WD. All the other models of Wagons have the same mount (FWD manual, FWD auto, RT4WD auto). The RT4WD manual has its own piece. I have bought a chunk of the frame rail at the wreckers that includes the special mount, then drilled out the spot welds on my FWD chassis, as well as the spot welds on the chunk from the wreckers, and then welded in the new piece. It just needs painted now.

theidealone

Awesome. great info and responses. Thanks a lot guys! I had NO idea that the shift linkage was cable, like an H or K. I definitely have my work cut out for me, but it will probably be a little while, since my 89 Civic Si comes first. This is going to be my daily, so itll be a bit more mild.

On the mount... Are we talking the chassis portion of the motor mount? Am I going to have to cut, and reweld the 6 speed mount? Thats the only thing worrying me now. Otherwise, the rest should be feasible, and fairly simple.

Thanks a lot for the responses so far!

[EDIT] Also, is the auto PM6 different from the manual PM6? Or is the issue that it will throw a code? Is it possible to convert it to manual, like you would with an OBD1? (Remove R17, solder in resistor for R18, or something)? If not, can I take any PM6, like a Civic or CRX SI? I will convert it to OBD1, but would rather wait until I build a new motor for it...

deceptakhan

Whats up Curtis. If it helps there is a 88 rt4wd manul in the yard in the springs with complete drivetrain. I cn go tomorrow and see if it is still there.

theidealone

deceptakhan wrote:

Whats up Curtis. If it helps there is a 88 rt4wd manul in the yard in the springs with complete drivetrain. I cn go tomorrow and see if it is still there.

DOOD!!!! YES! PLEASE! LOL. Lemme know, and if you can, ask them how much. Looks like I need the tranny, half shaft, front axles, shift cables, shifter assembly, tranny mounts, and ECU.... I think. LOL. Thanks Karl!!!!!

Jaker

This is the mount we're talking about:



There are other ways to do it, like this:



You should get the PM6 manual ECU. They're pretty cheap, and trying to convert your auto one will be one big hassle. It's not that simple with the OBD0 ECUs.

theidealone

So the bottom picture you posted, just looks like a modified mount, where they welded some flat stock with holes drilled higher, to raise the mounting height. Is this correct?

The top picture is where you cut the actual mount out of a RT4WD, and removed your factory FWD mount, to weld in the RT replacement. Correct?

Just trying to picture how involved this is, to convert my auto to manual. Im not worried about anythig but the cutting, fabricating, and welding.

Jaker

You are correct on both counts. The method I used was pretty straightforward. Get your hands on a "spot weld drill bit". It's a special mini hole saw made specifically for drilling out spot welds. Get a decent quality one. The cheap ones will just break on you and piss you off. Drill out the spot welds (they're easy to spot - pun intended). The mount will now come off dead easy without mangleing your chassis. Then just slip the new one on right over the holes/spot welds and weld it in.

If you chose the other method, the only concern I would have is that you will have to shave some metal off the bottom of the OEM mount, as the rubber mount bolted to the transmission comes up a little higher, and will probably hit on the bottom of the FWD chassis mount if you don't trim it.

theidealone

Jaker wrote:

You are correct on both counts. The method I used was pretty straightforward. Get your hands on a "spot weld drill bit". It's a special mini hole saw made specifically for drilling out spot welds. Get a decent quality one. The cheap ones will just break on you and piss you off. Drill out the spot welds (they're easy to spot - pun intended). The mount will now come off dead easy without mangleing your chassis. Then just slip the new one on right over the holes/spot welds and weld it in.

If you chose the other method, the only concern I would have is that you will have to shave some metal off the bottom of the OEM mount, as the rubber mount bolted to the transmission comes up a little higher, and will probably hit on the bottom of the FWD chassis mount if you don't trim it.

If I can find the Manual RT4WD mount (say I find everything from a donor vehicle), then I will be going with the replacement method. It just seems like the "right" (vs. wrong) way to do it, and actually a lot more simple. Takes all of the measuring and fabrication part out of it. (Which I love and all, but if it can be avoided, and still be cheap... LOL).

Thanks a lot Jaker, for all of your help!

I pick the car up on Tuesday, and will start a build thread. First thing is to get it running/rebuild the motor. Then I can concern myself with this, or suspension... Or the SI.

Thanks for everyones help as well! Maybe I will come back, and do a write up in this thread, when I get to that point.

gunsup0331

Sweet! Found it! Searched this site for auto-man info but google ended up bringin the goods!

Oldmajor

Does the cable linkage have to be from a wagon can you use one of an h series?

MrWhoopee

Considering that the automatic RT4WD is rated better mpg (!) and is more female friendly, I'd try to trade for a manual. Seems like a LOT less work. I'd like to have an automatic for Heidi, though she handles a stick just fine.

JOMO

dmoore0412

Not to bring up this post. But im going to be doing this conversion soon. Auto rt to manual rt. I have both complete cars. The manual is complete. What will me process involve. Wire isues ect. Thanks alot.