Another "Viscous Coupling Help" Thread

So here's what's happening:

Initial take-off in 1st gear it kind of feels like the clutch is slipping but it's not the clutch, any shifts after that work fine but anytime I give it heavy throttle in 1st or 2nd it seems like something is letting go. It'll rev and sound like it's under load (unlike the free-revving sound when the clutch slips) and even engages vtec (it's a mini-me motor).

When I try and make it up the ramp to park at work, I've got to litterally floor it in first gear and barely make it up and it does the same thing I just mentioned above.

I also get vibration from what feels like the rear of the vehicle in the instances that I first mentioned or when I'm trying to power through a turn.

Also when I shift there's a distinct thud coming from under the car.


So, I'm trying to figure out what it is. I read the thread a few lines down and that guy's bearings were bad. I was curious if bad bearings would prevent the coupling from grabbing or if the coupling itself is going bad.

Thanks in advance for the help.

Comments

  • jackmarkgrafjackmarkgraf Band Wagon
    One more thing, I'm not sure if this is normal:

    I went to take my wagon to get dyno tuned for the mini-me swap and my tuner only has a 2wd dyno. So, we figured we could just disconnect the driveshaft from the transfer case and dyno the car on just fwd. Well, we tried that and with the driveshaft disconnected the car wouldn't budge, it would just rev freely as if it were in neutral. Then we tried disengaging the 4wd via the lever on the transmission and connected the driveshaft back and we had the same result, the car wouldn't move. Is it supposed to be this way or is this another symptom of my problem?
  • i beleive that your front axles or front driveine have some issues coz when you remove the driveshaft the car should be on 2wd mode or fwd. since the front wheels are not working before you remove the driveshaft, your viscous coupler was slipping coz it cannot transfer all the torque towards the rear diff. my suggestion is find out whats wrong with the front driveline while on 2wd and ill guess you will resolve your issue/s. just my 2 cents bro.



    wagon..............4ever...................
  • jackmarkgrafjackmarkgraf Band Wagon
    So you think maybe it is the clutch then? Maybe it's not clamping down all the way?
  • JakerJaker familEE
    It has to be the clutch. There's no way the drive to the front wheels would slip any other way. At least not inside the transmission. A busted axle could do it, but the internals of the transmission are all gears. There's no trickery going on inside the tranny for torque distribution that would allow the front wheels to slip and drive to go to the rear wheels. It's gears, plain and simple.
  • jackmarkgrafjackmarkgraf Band Wagon
    That's weird because it's a brand new clutch and I've been going easy on it (no hard shifts) for the break in. Although it is an ebay Borg Warner oem replacement clutch so maybe it's just a POS clutch? If so, Action 2ks here I come.
  • SiWagonSiWagon Council Member
    :? If I'm right you might be burning the clutch :?: Let's start with the basics.Is the clutch adjusted properly? Did you buy the 4WD only T.O. brg?My theory is with the WRONG T.O .brg. you may be riding the clutch.The viscous coupler(VC) feels the slip & transfers the torque to the rear.Once you're going less torque is needed so NO probs in 2nd+. :cry:

    One of the possible ways to check this is to unscrew the clutch adjuster & see if there's any play @ the T.O.brg fork.Is it coming off the pressure plate fingers?Did you check the brg. box?
  • jackmarkgrafjackmarkgraf Band Wagon
    The clutch lever has approx 1/8 play in it which is what the FSM says if my memory serves me right so it should be adjusted properly. As for the T.O. bearing, I just used the one with the kit so I have no clue. I guess I assumed it'd be the right one because I ordered for my specific car.
  • jackmarkgrafjackmarkgraf Band Wagon
    I'm really starting to doubt it's the clutch although it's hard to tell. I would think that if it was the clutch I'd be smelling that burning clutch smell when this happens and I don't. Also, the clutch grabs fine during hard shifts, it only happens when I'm doing heavy throttle in the upper rpms or going up a steep hill...

    My brother said that the drivetrain will take the path of least resistance so if the driveshaft was removed then it would automatically put all the power towards the rear because there's no resistance. This doesn't make sense to me because it seems to me that the rt4wd is supposed to work the exact opposite of that...

    More input please...
  • JakerJaker familEE
    My brother said that the drivetrain will take the path of least resistance so if the driveshaft was removed then it would automatically put all the power towards the rear because there's no resistance.

    Definitely not. The inside of the transmission is solid gears to the front wheels. The only way there would be no drive to the front wheels is if there was some sort of mechanical breakage in the driveline.

    The transmission also happens to have solid gears to the output to the driveshaft, unless you disengage the 2WD/4WD lever.
  • Hello, this is Jack's brother...

    If what you say is true, that the front and rear outputs of the tranny are supposed to be 'locked' together, then there is something wrong with the tranny. He couldn't make it up my driveway the other day because his right rear wheel was up in the air spinning (entered steep driveway at an angle)... the front wheels were not pulling the car up.
  • progressprogress Wagonist
    i am no expert so i may completely wrong here...

    back when i had my crx i was pulling out of a gas station when all of a sudden i wasn't moving. anytime the gas was pressed, all it would do is rev. thought it was the clutch. we had the car on jacks ready to drop the tranny when my cousin noticed something. turns out i broke the passenger side cv axle so no power was getting to the wheel.

    maybe the same thing happened to you and the viscous coupler is thinking the front wheels are slipping so it engages the rear wheels?

    just my thoughts...
  • jackmarkgrafjackmarkgraf Band Wagon
    I don't think it's an axle because I don't hear any noises when I drive that would indicate that...

    Unless, is there a way for an axle to break without making noise while driving?
  • progress wrote:
    i am no expert so i may completely wrong here...

    back when i had my crx i was pulling out of a gas station when all of a sudden i wasn't moving. anytime the gas was pressed, all it would do is rev. thought it was the clutch. we had the car on jacks ready to drop the tranny when my cousin noticed something. turns out i broke the passenger side cv axle so no power was getting to the wheel.

    maybe the same thing happened to you and the viscous coupler is thinking the front wheels are slipping so it engages the rear wheels?

    just my thoughts...


    i have the same prognosis. my suggestion is put the car on 2wd mode and put it on a lifter and engage the transmission in gear. observe underneath both axle. maybe progress is right on the axle. just my 2 cents.


    wagon........................................4ever..........................................
  • jackmarkgrafjackmarkgraf Band Wagon
    But I'm not hearing any noise that a broken axle typically makes unless there is a way for an axle to break and not make any noise while being driven...

    I've definitely narrowed it down to either being an axle or something internal
  • JakerJaker familEE
    Jaker wrote:
    The only way there would be no drive to the front wheels is if there was some sort of mechanical breakage in the driveline.

    This is exactly what I was alluding to in the above statement. There must be some sort of mechanical breakage somewhere. The front diff is probably unloading somehow, sending some output to the rear wheels. If the hypoid in the inner or outer CV joint broke, the spline on the actual CV shaft could be spinning inside the boot, and not making much if any noise. It is also possible that the spider gears in the diff have failed, which would also limit power output to the front wheels.
  • jackmarkgrafjackmarkgraf Band Wagon
    K, now all of that makes sense to me Jaker, thanks!!!!

    My brother and I will be disecting the problem tomorrow... If it's anything but an axle problem, the wagon is getting converted to RWD :lol:
  • SEEKERoneSEEKERone Band Wagon
    I know I don't post here much but i think i might know what your problem is.
    I work at a Honda dealer and have seen a situation similar to this before.

    The inner CV joint are a larger spline than the 2WD.
    If the axle was replaced with an incorrect inner CV then there would be no power transmitted through that shaft.

    As previously noted, power takes the easiest path....no resistance= no movement BUT....
    As also notes, the rear drive is direct geared inside transmission.
    The viscous coupler recieves the power coming in.
    Because the front isn't pulling the car (slipping), the coupler engages sending power to the rear wheels.
    The coupler isn't a direct connection so power is lost through it.
    Basically the car is operating as RWD with a slipping coupler

    So...how to tell. As the car is struggling to move (like up the driveway you mentioned), is the speedometer showing any MPH?
    If it is, then the differential inside the transmission is turning (the speedometer gear), and then the loss of "power" is after the diff (driveshafts)
  • jackmarkgrafjackmarkgraf Band Wagon
    Haha, WOW!!!!!

    I was just about to post exactly what you've posted SEEKERone!!! That's exactly what the problem was!! Stupid O'Reilly gave me an axle for a CRX. It was the right length but the inner shaft to go into the half-shaft was too small and wasn't grabbing the teeth in the halfshaft. I couldn't have asked for a better situation; I was so deathly afraid it was going to be something expensive. They had to order the correct axle (go figure), it's due here this Wednesday so I look forward to driving my car under full power!
  • oilspotoilspot Wagonist
    so did you get your new axle in? waiting to hear how it's running for you.
  • jackmarkgrafjackmarkgraf Band Wagon
    New axle is in and it's running great! The original axle was for the p/s apparently. Dumb Dumbs at O'Reilly. FYI for anyone else in my situation when you go, you have to specify "station wagon" even after you tell them it's 4wd because otherwise you'll still get regular civic/crx axles.
  • HaydzHaydz Moderator
    Even when you say station wagon they still give you 2WD axles most of the time.
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