Aircon

marc-111marc-111 Wagonist
in Electronics, Fueling & Air Conditioning
i have a 1990 civic wagon 2wd

i have AC but its no longer cold i need to add some refrigerant but i dont know what to add

is it still using a R12 or i could use a R134a additive?

Comments

  • davensdavens familEE
    Okay...here are my ramblings on the subject of AC.

    When it comes time to service your AC, beyond the cost of any repairs, you're faced with a decision.

    Pay out the nose for R12 or convert to R134.

    Two lbs of freon(R12) costs about the same as a R134 conversion kit and two lbs of R134. The logic behind the conversion is:
    1. The next time you have to top off the system, it will cost a fraction of the price.
    2. R134 is environmentally safer
    3. A lot of regular shops are phasing out R12 so they won't/can't work with it.

    Sounds like a no brainer, right? Well here's what they won't tell you...
    R134 doesn't cool as well as R12.
    A new system designed to use R134 works fine, but only because its specs/capacities were designed for 134s properties. Our old R12 systems were not. Don't get me wrong...it cools, just not as well. And depending on where you live, you might notice. I live in Texas and it makes a difference on the 102 degree day with the typical 60%-90% humidity.

    R12 and R134 do not mix. Or rather they do, but violently. That's one of the reasons a system has to fully evacuated during a conversion. Get it all out and things are okay, leave any in and it will cause problems.
    With our cars, there are two types of compressors. Matsushita and Sanden. The Sandens convert fine. The Matsushita are prone to problems. It is widely believed that the seals/valves used are slightly absorbant and absorb R12. When the R134 is introduced, any R12 that slowly gets leached out of the seal/valve and has the aforementioned reaction, usually destroying seals in the process. So they have to evacuate the hell out of the system to make sure they got any remaining R12....but most places just do the minimum suction for the sake of time.
    This issue only applies to a converted Matsuhita...if you start with a new one, it won't be a problem. A new Matsushita off Ebay runs about $125 last time I checked.

    I'm a little leery of the "other" products out there. Stuff like Freeze-12 and Duracool. People experience mixed results. And then theres the flammability issue.
  • akiraboyakiraboy HondaCivicWagon.com Founder
    more than likely it would be best to replace all your old seals with new (viton Seals?) because like davens says: r-12 is gettin too hard to find.

    R-134 is a fact of life & its not as good as r-12 :roll: :roll: :roll:
  • marc-111marc-111 Wagonist
    ok so im just gonna convert my R12 into R134a so could i evacuate all the R12 freon? just loosen up one pipe/hose then let it go and thats it? or is there a bolt where i could remove to drain it all?

    its really hot here in NJ during summer time!!!! :x
  • davensdavens familEE
    This really isn't a do it yourself project.

    You have to evacuate the old R12. You could just vent it BUT while its under pressure, once you get down to near atmospheric, the remaining r12 will just sit in the system. The other problem is that R12 is a nasty pollutant. Venting to the atmosphere is a very very shitty thing to do.

    To get the system under adequate levels of vaccum requires special equipment that you obviously don't have.
  • marc-111marc-111 Wagonist
    how much do u think would it cost for my r12 to be evacuated?
  • davensdavens familEE
    I don't know...get out t.he yellow pages and start getting quotes
  • SiWagonSiWagon Council Member
    Ask a body shop for a referral.That's what I did and the old guy was mobile(came to my house). 8) Have him test it.Maybe you just need a small refill.Maybe it's a bad part,but the R-12 is good.Change the Drier(u figure it's not been changed in almost 17 years) unless it's just a R12 top off(small refill).If the drier has been exposed to air for more than 1-3 days it's bad.
  • marc-111marc-111 Wagonist
    ok thanks guys! i would take care off this after i fix my tierod and ball joints :lol:
  • SiWagonSiWagon Council Member
    Don't know what you're going to do w/the Ball joint,but read my tip at this link:
    http://www.hondacivicwagon.com/board/vi ... .php?t=205
    I'm the 6th comment down.Could save u some $$$
  • SloS13SloS13 Band Wagon
    I just got the AC working in my wagon. R13a and cold as ice. Even in the Alabama heat! Cools better than my gf's 97 Prelude and my R12 Volvo.

    I got a new orifice thingy and a new can thing that goes in the fender and installed new o-rings everywhere.
  • SiWagonSiWagon Council Member
    :D Great!The can thingy is the drier(in the fender)-Very important change.
  • wagondragonwagondragon Banned
    apparently the guy that i bought my wagon from recharged a 134a bottle of refrigerant into the a/c system b4 i bought it. i didnt need to use my ac at all for 3 months since i got my car. but damn its summer now and clearly the ac is NOT cold. i do want to convert it to 134a simply bcus its more convenient. my question is do i have to evacuate/flush the system out b4 i convert it? or is it really unnecessary? if i do need to, how do i come about doing it??? help!
Sign In or Register to comment.

© Vanilla Keystone Theme 2025