End this now:b18 on boost or b20 on spray, throw in your .02
akiraboy
HondaCivicWagon.com Founder
Like the topic says, b18 on boost or b20 on spray. I would like your thougths on this. Its a topic I've been talkin bout witha few friends & they're split. Curoiusity being what it is I was wonderin what everyone here would do
b20 on spray, since it doesn't appear to take well to boost.
b18 on boost, just to go to the opposite end of the spectrum.
both running forged internals, both stock blocks and dohc vtec valvetrains
I would like to see what everyone thinks, pros and cons.
b20 on spray, since it doesn't appear to take well to boost.
b18 on boost, just to go to the opposite end of the spectrum.
both running forged internals, both stock blocks and dohc vtec valvetrains
I would like to see what everyone thinks, pros and cons.
Comments
I know of many people running boost on B20's without problems, but havent tried it myself. Theres a guy here with CRVTEC in a CRX running 10's. Competetors shop and all he works on is Hondas, but you gotta give credit where its due. That car flies.
Weve been running boost on a B18 for 3 years which equals 6+ autox seasons seeing as how theres been days where the car has had 4 drivers. So I can vouch for the B18. I know it will last.
As far as spray, not interested. 4 bucks a lb will pay off a turbo system after so long, especially if your throttle happy. I see guys come in here and get bottle fills twice a day in the summer. Weve done numorous spray setups and some were just badass, some were just, well ok I guess. The WS-6 likes a wet 100 shot, but those cars are fast as hell from the word go.
I suppose I have a tainted view on whats fast. I get to drive some pretty badass cars. Some that Im scared of. The Supra that we built is just plain scary. I havent got the balls to stay in that thing once boost hits. Ass end just starts wagging, even with 295's on the back.
N2O is definatly cheaper at first though. And if all your looking for is being able to put the hurt to cars light to light once and a while, it might be just what you need.
the b20 on spray or the b18 on boost.
I think it all comes down to tuning but at the same time if one were an everyday car with need for speed on the weekend(lets just say)
which route would you go?
Oh and if you had to recommend a system for each what would you use
Example: b20-use Zex
Example: b18-use a gt35, sc61, t3/t4 ect
if you're looking for a daily driver and someting easy...go with the b20 w/ spray. the b20 has ample power to put down and still be fun, and when you want the extra umph.....you got the spray at your fingertips....
thats just me tho...if it were me, id just be happy with a B20 block and B16 head...thats enough for me 8)
As far as turbo on the B18, where do you want your power? Lower RPM's or higher? We used a wrx turbo on a built B18A and had 10lbs of boost at 2100 rpm's. It kinda petered out at the track up high, but light to light I never lost a battle. The car is stupid squirrly over 100 mph, so that didnt happen very often.
If your spending the money to build a motor Id seriously build a nice little turbo setup, install a good wideband so you can monitor A/F, dial in the tune, and call it good. Unless your looking for a 1/4 mile time, a T-25ish or smaller turbo is a lot of fun around town. If your wanting to go to the track for good ET's, youll want a bigger size turbo.
Either way, do your research and dicide which is going to be better for you. What I like isnt always the best for everyone else. But I do help build setups for a living, and most people that buy n2o setups generally come back (after they get greedy on the size of shot and blow thier shit up) and do full blown turbo setups.
If you wanted to take the next step wtih one of these which would you choose?
By the next step I mean nos or boost?
id say just get an h22 or k series to be different ...
but go with the boost unless you want a 50 shot on a stock block for fun the turbo is the way to go and all that bottle filling
like he said it would be weekly or dailey
very lame ...
hmmm....b20 vtec or ls/vtec....good question. depends what you're looking for i guess. personally, id love to have the b20. mainly because when i pop the hood i can boast the 2.0. either way both engines is gonna be better than the stock 1.5 im running :oops: hahaha.
the spray would be a good idea if you only wnat power every once in a while. true, filling it every week or so, but its what you want
Maybe add a 50-60hp wet shot on top of that for extra insurance.
thx to all
after college im going all out on this car....by that time this engine probably would have gotten some serious mileage on it. speaking on which.....im about to roll over to 100,00 mi.
I wanted to do a B swap since day1
I'm still scroungin for parts & its gettin tough
The other prob is I keep findin deals but they sometimes fall thru
davens can hook you up!!
8) Hang in there kid.We've all been there.Patience & GOOD planning is key.Schools #1.I've seen kids buy a new car pour tons of $$$$$$ in it,then dump the car in 3 yrs.I look at it as a long term project(hobby),till I find a better wagon or some idiot totals the wagon out.
:idea: Set a budget.Do the easy projects first.These range from freebies to low cost projects:
A)Ghetto TB:Remove the screen(Honda's restricter plate) from the TB.From what I hear it gives you a nice boost in power,but at the cost of dropped MPG.
B)Ghetto speed shifter.Saw off the shifter & rethread it.I 've done this to all my Hondas.
C)Ghetto CAI.Follow the intake hose from the air filter box toward the front of the wagon.One side Y's behind the radiator the other goe down.This hose leads to a sound surpression box behind the bumper.Either cut holes into the box or route a new hose to a area for cold air.
D)This project cost around 5-$12.Ghetto exhaust tips:
http://www.hondacivicwagon.com/board/vi ... .php?t=126
You get the idea.Set a buget,then pick the project that'll give you the most bang for your buck$$$.Some of it is luck or opportunity.A friend of mine was going to get rid of her Integra.I swapped her lugnuts for mine(DA lugnuts are lighter) and I got her rear sway bar.Cost:FREE..Akiraboy has the right idea.He has a project,but is buying parts from places like Criagslist or Ebay at deep discounts as peeps get rid of them(or clearing the garage).
Akiraboy I got a CRX SI tranny for $50.Patience.Some of us spend months(to years) in planning & getting parts b4 starting the install.
honda dsm ect
I am tring to remain focused.
Davens
As far as what do I need its hard to say
I have a ls block, forged 81.5 pistons/stroker rods, s1 tranny, lsd, b16 head, gsr cams, 2 vtec solenoids, vtec valve cover, gsr throttle body, crv auto 4wd trans, 2 of 3 mounts to do a manual B swap, B shift linkage, a questionable b16 obd0 dist, forged 84mm pistons, eagle rods, gsr intake mani, gsr exhaust mani
paid for but not picked up: motor mounts mentioned above. 2 b16 intake manifolds, ys1 1st gear, skunk2 cam gears.
Luckily the wagon comes with the two equal length shafts. Still need the intermediate
Now I need all the incidentals. Head gasket, head studs,water pump,oil pump, timing belt, tensioner, all new bearings, block bore to 81.5, exhaust mani gasket, intake mani gasket, all the fuggin bolts. IACV, ect.
Imagine building a motor from scratch
:shock:
TB? haha im bad with initials :P
that whole cold air thing...my dad took that whole thing off (the Y-piece) so pretty much my airbox has a huge hole in it.
i just wish i had the time and money now to do it. but i do know that after college will be when the big stuff goes down. imma get a good job, setlle down with some money, then start planning out. you guys have helped so much by the way...ya'll are great!! << that sounded a bit too Texan
I've got a little low buck project for you that gives a little extra power. At the risk of crashing off topic...
"DIY Ram Cold Air"
You've already started by having the "hole" in your intake box. You can make that work nearly as well as a cold air intake.
The formula is something like: For every 11 degrees you drop the intake temperature, its a 1% increase in power. So if you've been sucking underhood heated air in the ballpark of 120 degrees and start replacing it with outside ambient temperatures of, say...70 degrees, thats a 4% increase in power.
First, you need to remove the resonator chamber. Its kind of in the fender/behind the front bumper. You can see the hole into it from the engine bay. I've managed to get them out without removing the bumper but it might make it easier. And removing the bumper is a whole lot easier than most people think. Anyway, get that waste of plastic box out of there.
If you've got a 90-91, you have a recess in the bumper that were meant for fog lights (or at least this is the case in the CRX). Cut it open.
If you've got an 88-89, make a hole directly under the bumper turn signal. I use a 2" hole saw that attaches to my drill. Be creative...but cautious. I would avoid trying to freehand it with something like a dremel or hand saw. Use something that creates nice geometric shapes.
Now you have an open path from the cold air out in front of the bumper to the airbox.
You're going to need to duct air with a flexible pipe or tube. This is really the only money you're going to need to spend. Go to Home Depot. You'll get away for under $10, easily. Figure out a way to attach one end to the bumper and the other to the hole in the box. I used bolts.
You could try not using any tubing/ducting, but I don't recommend it. You'd have a steady flow of air blowing against the interior of the splash guard. Go too fast and it could blow it out.
Skipping the debate of how the physics of how ram air works(or doesn't), it makes a noticeable difference above 10 mph. Or it did in my case. Especially during the hot Texas summers.
I think this design is more resistant to getting submerged/hydrolocking than the standard CAI. If that aspect worries you, you can put several holes in the tubing to eliminate the single suction point at the bumper opening.
It also helps to upgrade to the K&N flat panel OEM fit filter.
Hope that is within budget and nets you a little more power.
how's the weather where you are? i hear we have a coldfront coming in. rain on monday and tuesday. speaking of which...is water going to be a problem with the hole?
haha a lot of my cousins from Chicago freak out when i say "yall" as the saying goes....It's a Texan Thing
Take out the filer/airbox...there's a 2" hole going down into the fender. You'll probably see a plastic lip sticking up through the hole.
This is the resonator. Its only job is to quiet the intake noise. If you've already removed the y-boot that goes into it and the airbox, its serving absolutely no function whatsoever.
To get access to this plastic box, either peel back the splash shield/fender liner (from the front) or remove the bumper(uh, the front one) entirely. If you're opting to remove just the fender liner, be prepared to spend some time getting your tools up into a hard-to-reach place.
As far as water concerns, you'll understand the concept better when you get the resonator out an can look at what you're dealing with.
I've had my CRX set up this way for years(6+) and never had a problem.
If you have misgivings about creating a negative vacuum type intake(sealed all the way to the intake hole in the bumper) that theoretically could suck water in, you can design it with a break right between your plumbing and the airbox. This way it simply acts as a cold air duct when there is positive pressure forced into the bumper hole by forward velocity. It will never "suck" water, even submerged...which might be better for Houston. But how often have your bumper turn signals gone underwater?
On the mundane topic of weather...we've got like a 20% chance of rain all week starting Sunday or Monday but there's no significant drop in temperature coming. Highs in the high 70/low 80s all week. Spring is here.