How bad does your transmission drag?

judebert

My Wagon is not coasting as expected. The wheels don't turn easily: I put one front wheel in the air, put the tranny in neutral, and gave it a gentle shove. The Wagon turned about 1/4 rev. The Hatchback turned 1 + 2/3 revs.

So I started testing to find out where the resistance is coming from. When I removed the CV axle, the Wagon turned 1 + 1/2 revs. Similar results on the other side, thus removing the possibility that the CV axle is the problem.

I wonder if this is normal for Wagons. I'd like to eliminate the uncertainties, but my torque wrench isn't sensitive enough to measure the resistance (looks like about 5 foot-pounds, but the wrench only measures down to 10). Could a few of you guys try this quick test, and tell me what you get?

Find a nice, flat, level surface, such as a parking lot. Accelerate to the neck-breaking pace of 10 MPH. Slip into neutral and measure how far you go before the car stops. A rough estimate will be fine. Try to measure in seconds and distance.

For reference, a standard parking space is 8 feet x 16 feet, although they're not really standardized: could be anything from (7.5 to 10) x (16 to 18).

I'll put the Wagon back together and try it myself, as well as trying it in the Hatchback. We can compare notes here.

Thanks in advance to anyone who helps out!

SiWagon

Your answer lies in this link:
http://www.hondacivicwagon.com/board/vi ... .php?t=103

judebert

Thanks, SiWagon, but I must be going blind. If I want to rebuild or replace the tranny, that link will be most helpful. In fact, you've got me considering an Si swap; I'll just want to look at the bell housing to verify that my current adapter (with a transfer-case cutout piece) won't leave a big gap.

But I don't see anything indicating how hard it should be to move the wheels, or how much resistance the tranny puts up.

Of course, nobody's obligated to perform a roll-down test for me, and I'm not even expecting a lot of help. But I would certainly appreciate any numbers I get.

SiWagon

What do you want?TOrque?Range?I believe the drag is from the final drive.
You are going to have to settle on a compromise.You're in the middle now.With th Si trans your torque will go up,but your drag & mileage is going to drop.

judebert

That's interesting. I didn't think drag was related to final drive. I'm looking for resistance, really; how hard is it to move the transmission when it's not connected to the motor. So the only moving mass should be the wheels, rotors, and transmission gears. Not the flywheel, and certainly no resistance from engine compression (hence the "slip it into neutral" step).

I'm not trying to accelerate better, or get a higher top speed. I'm trying to coast better, and remove as much inefficiency as possible.

I perceive my transmission to be providing a lot of resistance. I've tested, and it's the main source of the resistance. But I have no reference to determine if the amount of resistance I see is normal or unusual. That's what I'm looking for: how much resistance is normal?

SiWagon

To give you a idea of resistance,when I had the tranny out . I could rotate the input shaft by hand in gear.However in different gears it was harder to turn by hand.Take a bike & flip it over & play w/the gears.

There's too many small factors that could affect the rolling resistance between the HB & Wgn(e.g. larger Wgn wheel brg,looser parts from wear,etc.).Maybe you should go after the bigger fish(e.g. bellypan,a DX tranny (less force to turn),HF or VX wheels,,etc.) b4 sweating the small stuff

judebert

Thanks, SiWagon. That's a good input point. I couldn't rotate the input shaft by hand even in neutral. Turning the wheels in neutral takes some effort, and that's ten inches from the center.

I'm less worried about air resistance because I seldom go over 45MPH, so it's not such a big force. And the shape of the Wagon is an overwhelming, unalterable factor.

Nevertheless, I've already got the bellypan lined up, and I've already put on 15" aluminum wheels from a '95 Saturn (lighter rims with shorter, wider tires == less rolling resistance).

That leaves me with three fish: motor brush advance (biggest fish), battery charging (very big fish), and coasting drag. I'm working the brushes and batteries, and they'll take a while. Meantime, this drag is... well, a drag.