Well got a decent bit of work done over the weekend.
Spent a lot of time getting familiar with things and dismantling the motor.
Here are some pics!
Dizzy removed & labeled some of the connectors so I don;t need to think about it when time to reconnect them.
Had to figure out the best way to work the harness through the manifold so it could be removed.
Almost made it harder then it needed to be by removing entire passenger side wires and connectors when I realized I could just disconnect it on the drivers side and would be 1 set of wires vs a bunch of them glad I figured that out!
Head is off at first glance things looked not to bad was a bunch of silver thin metal looking stuff on the gasket surface I assume this was stop leak used by one of the previous owners? Also think I am I missing a guide on the right side or maybe it is inside the head?
Timing WAS set to TDC but I accidentally spun the crank after I removed the head when looking at how I was going to remove the crank bolt so I guess I will need to line the crank gear up to make sure it is back at TDC when re installing everything?
After I accidentaly spun the crank I saw the #4 piston looks pretty worn, you can also see the other cylinders have some wear on them as well to be expected but wondering if it will be ok if I leave it as is?!
I can feel the texture, the motor must have been leaking for quit a while I assume with the wear on everything.
The other cylinders are not to bad from what I can tell some minor issues but not as bad as #4.
The intake gasket had honda bond all over it!
I am thinking one of the previous owners cut a lot of corners or just thought honda bond couldn't hurt to put it everywhere!
Stuff was used like it is a fix all on just about all gaskets and seals....Was a ticking time bomb!
Don't have pictures yet but all the valve stems and springs have been removed and organized.
I will be cleaning the head off and lapping all the valves.
Then I will be replacing all the gaskets and seals.
The head gasket is going to be a PITA to get off the block I have it sitting on a rag that has been soaked in brake cleaner at the moment hoping it will soften it up and figured I would try a heat gun tomorrow to help get it off.
So my thoughts are to put it back together and run it as is considering you can find a decent used motor for around $400 or so & around $700 for an import motor with a warranty.
Guess time will tell if it was a wise choice or not figure it should last for a little while longer I hope!
Bit of an update on things.
Here is what has been replaced and swapped so far:
Head gasket
Intake gasket
Spark plug gaskets upper and lower
Valve seals
Cam seal
Valve cover gasket
Dpfi intake swapped out for z6 intake
Dizzy wires are swapped for si plug
Tps wires are switched but not extended yet
Still to do:
Wire/splice fuel injectors
Ecu wires and swap pm6
Couple of coolant lines need to be connected possibly need a new hose I think.
Throttle cable need to get correct bracket.
Modify the intake tube or replace dpfi doesn't fit correctly.
I'll post up some pics of things this weekend.
Thanks to driftin for lending a helping hand and your books definitely coming in handy!
Glad we got the valve compressor figured out almost ruined the project before it even got started.
I managed to break the first valve seal spring when installing them luckily kept some of the old ones and used it then got the hang of it after that.
Well finally got everything assembled and fired up the motor!
It idled for a bit and gave it a little gas.
Check engine light is on but I think I know what might be causing it.
I'll check into that later I'm just stoked it started up first try!
Going to take it off the jack stands tomorrow and take it for a spin it's late and pouring out so not the best time for a test drive.
I'll post up some more pics and info later on I'm packing and moving this weekend so I should be able to drive the wagon instead of towing it!! Fingers still crossed test drives goes well but hurdle 1 is complete!!
congrats on getting it back together, it sounds like you had a better time than I did on mine. I just had to do this about a month ago and just now got it running last week lol. Good luck on the test drive also!
Well guys completed the mpfi swap no more code 4!!
Took it for a test drive and have to adjust timing a bit.
Also realized my downpipe is leaking bad and need a new gasket and bolt since I broke one of them trying to tighten it down. Hoping to adjust things tomorow and get it running better.
Super happy I fixed the code 4!
I had to re solder one of my injector wires and also crimped the ecu pins to make better contact.
One other thing I did was cleaned up some of the ground points on the valve cover and replaced the battery connectors.
Thanks I'm happy to have no codes!!
Now I just gotta get the exhaust leak fixed.
Turns out it was my downpipe flange leaking so I tried to tighten it down and broke a damn bolt.
So going to yard to pick up a new one and get new gasket to use.hopefully that fixes it.
When I drove it was bogging at low rpm when gassing the pedal so timkng must have been off.
I advanced it all the way and will go from there tomorrow to see if it runs better.
Don't have a timing light so have to mess with it till it runs better.
Hopefully I'm close and can adjust it at the dizzy.
Hopefully we can all get together for a bigger meet soon since seams no one went this weekend.
I'll be the first and only guy in PDX with a wagon mpfi swap.
It definitely sounds mean.
Got it running much much better now!
Drove it home today and made the 30mile drive no problem.
A little adjusting in the timing and throttle/idle and should be better then new.
Super stoked made this work I was in over my head and thanks to the Internet and great guys on here I got it up and running better then when I bought it.
Look foreword to having it back as my daily!
I agree! I feel the same way you do when I completed mine. Just a question, I'm gonna have to be replacing my t-belt soon, how did you get the crank pulley off?
I didn't get mine off I left my old timing belt on it.
I was going to but decided not to, would have used a puller to so it as mine has the little circles cut out of it to make this possible.
Driving to work today was getting some backfiring while downshifting any ideas anyone?
Wondering if my cat is causing it since I am know I am getting more flow now and running richer??
Took a look under the wagon today after driving it for a while my exhaust is still leaking from the back of the downpipe right before the cat.
Not sure if it is the flange or what is causing the issue the bolts are as tight as they can get without me breaking another one.
Thinking this could be the cause of the backfire....?
I also finally got everything timed correctly and seams to run better but now I am getting a decent amount of smoke.
Happens when deceling or cruising at lower rpms.
I was driving it to work today on the highway and smoked a lot more then I would like!
Left a few people in a wake of smoke.
Also puffs out when rev engine up to 4-5rpms then let off.
It has been a struggle to get to this point and now is a PITA that it is smoking on me not sure what is causing it or why its happening.
While I was trying to get the timing adjusted correctly at 1 point the timing belt slipped on me when I was driving and had to tow it back home, I am really hoping nothing got messed up but I checked all the valve clearances and everything checked out ok and nothing making any strange noises but it is smoking more now then it was when I had the timing off.
It doesn't seam to be loosing any coolant, smoke looks to be a blue-grey color.
Really wish I could get it to run correctly and stop smoking!!!
Did you change the rings, If the head gasket was leaking the cylinders are washed and worn. I dont want to tell you this but you may need to hone the cylinders and ring it.
I didn't get mine off I left my old timing belt on it.
I was going to but decided not to, would have used a puller to so it as mine has the little circles cut out of it to make this possible.
Driving to work today was getting some backfiring while downshifting any ideas anyone?
Wondering if my cat is causing it since I am know I am getting more flow now and running richer??
Yeah not sure what the issue is its strange cause when the timing is retarded it doesn't smoke.
Problem is I'm having issues getting time timing correct.
If I have the cam and crank at tdc the timing is off but no smoke just some popping from the exhaust at times. With the timing set correctly the cam is lot level with the head but matches up with the timing light. I adjusted it 1 more time to double check things and have it 1 tooth advanced from level need to fire it up set the timing again and see of it still smokes. I definitely think my exhaust isn't fully functional I have a few things working against me and taking things one step at a time. It's very odd can not get the timing right with everything lined up. Found out its a b7 head and most likely cam but this shouldn't be effecting the timing as far as I know?
I did not do anything to the bottom end.
I'm sure the rings are not the greatest and worn some.
I put some engine restore in so can see if that helps things.
Just trying to figure out what's causing the timing confusion before messing with anything else.
Yeah not sure what the issue is its strange cause when the timing is retarded it doesn't smoke.
Problem is I'm having issues getting time timing correct.
If I have the cam and crank at tdc the timing is off but no smoke just some popping from the exhaust at times. With the timing set correctly the cam is lot level with the head but matches up with the timing light. I adjusted it 1 more time to double check things and have it 1 tooth advanced from level need to fire it up set the timing again and see of it still smokes. I definitely think my exhaust isn't fully functional I have a few things working against me and taking things one step at a time. It's very odd can not get the timing right with everything lined up. Found out its a b7 head and most likely cam but this shouldn't be effecting the timing as far as I know?
I have some ideas about this. First off, I'm confused about when you said "With the timing set correctly the cam is lot(i'm assuming this is "not") level with the head but matches up with the timing light." To set the cam timing, you don't use a timing light. You only need to use the marks on the crank pulley and cam gear to set cam timing. After that, you use a timing light and rotate the distributor to set ignition timing.
Anyway, it almost sounds to me like you're saying the timing just won't line up right period. Like one setting is too retarded, and the next tooth over is too advanced. It made me think about something...
You said you think it's a B7 head? Is it the same head that came off the motor when it ran before, or did you swap the head out? Do you know what year the block is? or what year the head is?
I know that for some reason, the A6 cams were indexed differently in 88 than they were in 89-91. If you don't get the right cam gear, then you can't get the timing right. It will be either advanced or retarded by about 4.75 degrees. The A6 head is the same casting as the B2 / B7 head, just different cams and valve springs. Do you think there is a chance your B7 head has an A6 cam? Or perhaps the B2 / B7 cams underwent the indexing change as well.
With the A6 cam, the way to correct it is to use a cam gear off of either a D16Y7 or D16Y8. Those engines can be found in pretty much any 96-00 single cam civic. Ya might wanna give that a shot and see if it helps. The cam gear shouldn't cost more than about $5. I bought one for my A6 head swap on my B2, the dude said $5 but then he just gave it to me :-)
The block is a jdm d15b.
I do not know if possibly the cam is different or not,
Realized it was a b7 head yesterday when trying to sort out what could be causing issues.
Also made sure had the correct timing belt which has 143 teeth.
It is also possible that the timing was off before the mpfi swap I never had a light on it before now.
I have double and triple checked all wiring for the mpfi swap but I can always check it again.
I had the motor set with the cam advanced and the crank at TDC and got the timing light to be spot on but the motor was smoking.
When I had it set like that I am not sure if it was 1 or 2 teeth off because I was messing with it so much I was just trying to get the light to match up with the crank mark.
I now have it set with it 1 tooth advanced on the cam and will be checking it today when I get off work to see if I can get the light to match up.
I wouldn't think being advanced would cause smoking but I guess its entirely possibly.
I did not change the head out it is the same one that was on the motor before when I had it dpfi.
It was smoking before but only on start up and idle because the head gasket was going out.
With the way I had it advanced it was smoking on idle and also when cruisng at low rpms, but not smoking when speeding up.
When motor is retarded it doesn't really smoke at all maybe a few puffs here or there but nothing like it was when advanced.
Another thought I had is possibly the ebay dizzy I bought could be causing the firing to be off slightly?
Can't really think of anything else other then the cam causing the issue.
Man I'm out of ideas. Those were the only two good ones I had. I wished you lived close to me, I would bring over the cam gear off my 4-door to try that out. Maybe one of your buddies has one you can borrow? Or just get one from a junk yard, or search the local forums, or craigslist. It can't be more than 5-10 bucks and if that doesn't fix it, you can just sell it again.
Yeah I am not sure what the deal is either.
I played with it some more today and with the marks level with the head the timing mark with a light on it hits in the middle of the 3 marks and the tdc mark. But as I mentioned before with it set like this I get no smoke on idle.
I am pretty much out of ideas other then jumping 1 tooth which I am pretty sure will cause it to start smoking again not sure why??
The cam marks line up more like a 1.6 cam does to get it to time correctly.
I tried to mess with jumping the service connector on the passenger kick panel but could not get it to work properly as the check engine light would not come on but I am not throwing any codes so not sure why thats happening??
You sure the service connector is under the kick panel? On my 89 its under the hood on the driver side. I didn't think they moved it to the kick panel until 92 / OBD 1. MAybe I'm mistaken on that...
Well I did some more thinking today and research on things and came across a thread someone was having similar issue with some motor and compared their distributor to their old one and found out the points were different so made me wonder about mine. Turn out that I have the same issue the dizzy I bought has the points at a slant rather then straight up and down the way they are suppose to be.
Here is a pic of what the cap should look like:
Here is an example of the one I bought looks like:
Comments
Spent a lot of time getting familiar with things and dismantling the motor.
Here are some pics!
Dizzy removed & labeled some of the connectors so I don;t need to think about it when time to reconnect them.
Had to figure out the best way to work the harness through the manifold so it could be removed.
Almost made it harder then it needed to be by removing entire passenger side wires and connectors when I realized I could just disconnect it on the drivers side and would be 1 set of wires vs a bunch of them glad I figured that out!
Head is off at first glance things looked not to bad was a bunch of silver thin metal looking stuff on the gasket surface I assume this was stop leak used by one of the previous owners? Also think I am I missing a guide on the right side or maybe it is inside the head?
Timing WAS set to TDC but I accidentally spun the crank after I removed the head when looking at how I was going to remove the crank bolt so I guess I will need to line the crank gear up to make sure it is back at TDC when re installing everything?
After I accidentaly spun the crank I saw the #4 piston looks pretty worn, you can also see the other cylinders have some wear on them as well to be expected but wondering if it will be ok if I leave it as is?!
I can feel the texture, the motor must have been leaking for quit a while I assume with the wear on everything.
The other cylinders are not to bad from what I can tell some minor issues but not as bad as #4.
I am thinking one of the previous owners cut a lot of corners or just thought honda bond couldn't hurt to put it everywhere!
Stuff was used like it is a fix all on just about all gaskets and seals....Was a ticking time bomb!
Don't have pictures yet but all the valve stems and springs have been removed and organized.
I will be cleaning the head off and lapping all the valves.
Then I will be replacing all the gaskets and seals.
The head gasket is going to be a PITA to get off the block I have it sitting on a rag that has been soaked in brake cleaner at the moment hoping it will soften it up and figured I would try a heat gun tomorrow to help get it off.
Guess time will tell if it was a wise choice or not figure it should last for a little while longer I hope!
Here is what has been replaced and swapped so far:
Head gasket
Intake gasket
Spark plug gaskets upper and lower
Valve seals
Cam seal
Valve cover gasket
Dpfi intake swapped out for z6 intake
Dizzy wires are swapped for si plug
Tps wires are switched but not extended yet
Still to do:
Wire/splice fuel injectors
Ecu wires and swap pm6
Couple of coolant lines need to be connected possibly need a new hose I think.
Throttle cable need to get correct bracket.
Modify the intake tube or replace dpfi doesn't fit correctly.
I'll post up some pics of things this weekend.
Thanks to driftin for lending a helping hand and your books definitely coming in handy!
Glad we got the valve compressor figured out almost ruined the project before it even got started.
I managed to break the first valve seal spring when installing them luckily kept some of the old ones and used it then got the hang of it after that.
It idled for a bit and gave it a little gas.
Check engine light is on but I think I know what might be causing it.
I'll check into that later I'm just stoked it started up first try!
Going to take it off the jack stands tomorrow and take it for a spin it's late and pouring out so not the best time for a test drive.
I'll post up some more pics and info later on I'm packing and moving this weekend so I should be able to drive the wagon instead of towing it!! Fingers still crossed test drives goes well but hurdle 1 is complete!!
Took it for a test drive and have to adjust timing a bit.
Also realized my downpipe is leaking bad and need a new gasket and bolt since I broke one of them trying to tighten it down. Hoping to adjust things tomorow and get it running better.
Super happy I fixed the code 4!
I had to re solder one of my injector wires and also crimped the ecu pins to make better contact.
One other thing I did was cleaned up some of the ground points on the valve cover and replaced the battery connectors.
Now I just gotta get the exhaust leak fixed.
Turns out it was my downpipe flange leaking so I tried to tighten it down and broke a damn bolt.
So going to yard to pick up a new one and get new gasket to use.hopefully that fixes it.
When I drove it was bogging at low rpm when gassing the pedal so timkng must have been off.
I advanced it all the way and will go from there tomorrow to see if it runs better.
Don't have a timing light so have to mess with it till it runs better.
Hopefully I'm close and can adjust it at the dizzy.
Hopefully we can all get together for a bigger meet soon since seams no one went this weekend.
I'll be the first and only guy in PDX with a wagon mpfi swap.
It definitely sounds mean.
Drove it home today and made the 30mile drive no problem.
A little adjusting in the timing and throttle/idle and should be better then new.
Super stoked made this work I was in over my head and thanks to the Internet and great guys on here I got it up and running better then when I bought it.
Look foreword to having it back as my daily!
I was going to but decided not to, would have used a puller to so it as mine has the little circles cut out of it to make this possible.
Driving to work today was getting some backfiring while downshifting any ideas anyone?
Wondering if my cat is causing it since I am know I am getting more flow now and running richer??
Not sure if it is the flange or what is causing the issue the bolts are as tight as they can get without me breaking another one.
Thinking this could be the cause of the backfire....?
I also finally got everything timed correctly and seams to run better but now I am getting a decent amount of smoke.
Happens when deceling or cruising at lower rpms.
I was driving it to work today on the highway and smoked a lot more then I would like!
Left a few people in a wake of smoke.
Also puffs out when rev engine up to 4-5rpms then let off.
It has been a struggle to get to this point and now is a PITA that it is smoking on me not sure what is causing it or why its happening.
While I was trying to get the timing adjusted correctly at 1 point the timing belt slipped on me when I was driving and had to tow it back home, I am really hoping nothing got messed up but I checked all the valve clearances and everything checked out ok and nothing making any strange noises but it is smoking more now then it was when I had the timing off.
It doesn't seam to be loosing any coolant, smoke looks to be a blue-grey color.
Really wish I could get it to run correctly and stop smoking!!!
Problem is I'm having issues getting time timing correct.
If I have the cam and crank at tdc the timing is off but no smoke just some popping from the exhaust at times. With the timing set correctly the cam is lot level with the head but matches up with the timing light. I adjusted it 1 more time to double check things and have it 1 tooth advanced from level need to fire it up set the timing again and see of it still smokes. I definitely think my exhaust isn't fully functional I have a few things working against me and taking things one step at a time. It's very odd can not get the timing right with everything lined up. Found out its a b7 head and most likely cam but this shouldn't be effecting the timing as far as I know?
I'm sure the rings are not the greatest and worn some.
I put some engine restore in so can see if that helps things.
Just trying to figure out what's causing the timing confusion before messing with anything else.
I have some ideas about this. First off, I'm confused about when you said "With the timing set correctly the cam is lot(i'm assuming this is "not") level with the head but matches up with the timing light." To set the cam timing, you don't use a timing light. You only need to use the marks on the crank pulley and cam gear to set cam timing. After that, you use a timing light and rotate the distributor to set ignition timing.
Anyway, it almost sounds to me like you're saying the timing just won't line up right period. Like one setting is too retarded, and the next tooth over is too advanced. It made me think about something...
You said you think it's a B7 head? Is it the same head that came off the motor when it ran before, or did you swap the head out? Do you know what year the block is? or what year the head is?
I know that for some reason, the A6 cams were indexed differently in 88 than they were in 89-91. If you don't get the right cam gear, then you can't get the timing right. It will be either advanced or retarded by about 4.75 degrees. The A6 head is the same casting as the B2 / B7 head, just different cams and valve springs. Do you think there is a chance your B7 head has an A6 cam? Or perhaps the B2 / B7 cams underwent the indexing change as well.
Here's the link to the info i found
With the A6 cam, the way to correct it is to use a cam gear off of either a D16Y7 or D16Y8. Those engines can be found in pretty much any 96-00 single cam civic. Ya might wanna give that a shot and see if it helps. The cam gear shouldn't cost more than about $5. I bought one for my A6 head swap on my B2, the dude said $5 but then he just gave it to me :-)
The orange wire from C1 should be moved to B10
The White wire from C2 should be moved to B12
I have read that getting these backwards will cause your timing to be severely retarded.
I do not know if possibly the cam is different or not,
Realized it was a b7 head yesterday when trying to sort out what could be causing issues.
Also made sure had the correct timing belt which has 143 teeth.
It is also possible that the timing was off before the mpfi swap I never had a light on it before now.
I have double and triple checked all wiring for the mpfi swap but I can always check it again.
I had the motor set with the cam advanced and the crank at TDC and got the timing light to be spot on but the motor was smoking.
When I had it set like that I am not sure if it was 1 or 2 teeth off because I was messing with it so much I was just trying to get the light to match up with the crank mark.
I now have it set with it 1 tooth advanced on the cam and will be checking it today when I get off work to see if I can get the light to match up.
I wouldn't think being advanced would cause smoking but I guess its entirely possibly.
I did not change the head out it is the same one that was on the motor before when I had it dpfi.
It was smoking before but only on start up and idle because the head gasket was going out.
With the way I had it advanced it was smoking on idle and also when cruisng at low rpms, but not smoking when speeding up.
When motor is retarded it doesn't really smoke at all maybe a few puffs here or there but nothing like it was when advanced.
Another thought I had is possibly the ebay dizzy I bought could be causing the firing to be off slightly?
Can't really think of anything else other then the cam causing the issue.
I played with it some more today and with the marks level with the head the timing mark with a light on it hits in the middle of the 3 marks and the tdc mark. But as I mentioned before with it set like this I get no smoke on idle.
I am pretty much out of ideas other then jumping 1 tooth which I am pretty sure will cause it to start smoking again not sure why??
The cam marks line up more like a 1.6 cam does to get it to time correctly.
I tried to mess with jumping the service connector on the passenger kick panel but could not get it to work properly as the check engine light would not come on but I am not throwing any codes so not sure why thats happening??
Blue connector brown with green and white wire.
Here is a pic of what the cap should look like:
Here is an example of the one I bought looks like:
Found a wrecked 93 coupe that had a decent z6 in it so its now SWAP TIME!!!