Swap or Mod?
Kahuna
familEE
Well, this spring I'll have enough saved to either do a swap, or mod the hell outa this D15.
So which should I do?
I'm thinking modding the D15 would be a lot easier, but a swap sounds more fun..
Basically I want enough power to put it to these stupid Mustangs and other stupid ricers.
So, if I were to swap, I would probably go with a big motor, since I'm going to all the trouble anyways.
But if I were to run the D15, what would you guys reccomend putting into it? Would it even be worth it to mod the D15? I'll probably have a few grand to use.
Basically, I want to run under 10 seconds on the 1/8th mile, and be able to roast off some tire if I ever get the urge. (My sister's stock Civic would run a 10.16 on the 1/8) (I think that was the number, it was around 10)
So, any input would be helpful.
Oh yeah, this motor has 120k on it, and a auto tranny. (yeah I know)
So which should I do?
I'm thinking modding the D15 would be a lot easier, but a swap sounds more fun..
Basically I want enough power to put it to these stupid Mustangs and other stupid ricers.
So, if I were to swap, I would probably go with a big motor, since I'm going to all the trouble anyways.
But if I were to run the D15, what would you guys reccomend putting into it? Would it even be worth it to mod the D15? I'll probably have a few grand to use.
Basically, I want to run under 10 seconds on the 1/8th mile, and be able to roast off some tire if I ever get the urge. (My sister's stock Civic would run a 10.16 on the 1/8) (I think that was the number, it was around 10)
So, any input would be helpful.
Oh yeah, this motor has 120k on it, and a auto tranny. (yeah I know)
Comments
B16A is a popular one. again, you've got an up in displacement (1.6 too), and a larger bump in HP (160), plus you've got the added enjoyment of the VTEC. both of these engines come DOHC, so either way you're well off. with the B16, you've got to get mounts and the complete engine itself is around $1300. so you're look at least $2000 for other stuff, maybe even $2500 if you want it done right. i've seen kits on eBay that have a spoon ecu and lsd with the package for around $1900 i think, so you pretty much get what you pay for.
B18 is the infamous LS engine. you've got more HP and again, larger displacement. no VTEC tho, but you could always add on a head from the B16 for more added fun. same thing with the B20. again, larger displacement. but with that bad boy, you've got a torque happy monster. slap on a VTEC head and fun just spills out from every inch of the engine bay. i think with that combo, we've had a wagonists see numbers around 160HP to the wheels.
i'm probably ranting on about stuff you already know..... :oops: or not. this is usually a big topic for most people who want more power.
with both engines, you can do small things to it to gain extra HP. intake is a good one, headers and maybe adjustable cams. a chip for the ecu to burn a bit rich or lean. um, a lot of various things can be done to achieve your goal. and by the way, dont mention street-racing or P will get cha, just a heads up. if you do, just keep it to yourself and off the posts.
my advice, dont bother with that D15. go with a swap. whichever you choose. you've got many options out there.....so figure out what you're budget is and do some research. what you're gonna need, resources, parts place, and some friends who can help out. a lot of times you'll be halfway thru a swap and find out you need a small part that you overlooked. be thorough, very thorough
anyone else? that was a lot for me :? i usually dont type this much, but its late and i cant sleep. so some of that info might be irrelevant. someone stop me if im wrong, we all make mistakes. unfortunately, i make them a lot
Anyway... i think you need to set a realistic goal for having fun and still having drivability. The wagon is not a great platform car for any kind of modding. I mean, it is... but it isn't. Dumping money into these cars is on the brink of lunacy. I guess that depends if these are just old honda civic station wagons or something more...
Personally... I would put a vtec head on your block, spice up the cam and do all the bolt ons, intake, header, exhaust, chipped obd1 conversion. And if you aren't happy, throw a DIY turbo on there and boost to 6psi or something. But there goes your fuel and many more potential problems. oh oh and an Si tranny, that will make your biggest difference.
my .02
butttt......it's all up to you.
But if you have made up your mind to spend the few grand all under the hood, i think the b16 is the most FUN motor to drive around. vtec is great. but given the wagon is heavier than the crx i had, maybe the b18 for the torque. Nope, i still say b16, that motor is just plain fun.
And i will say that if you do put in a b-series you WILL notice that your suspension and brakes are now somewhat not up to snuff.
*enter stage left, the beginning of your lifelong battle to mod your wagon*
http://www.hondacivicwagon.com/board/vi ... =3715#3715
OR
I'd go with the last choice for these reasons:
1)Lottsa T :twisted: RQUE (This is reason enough to do it).:twisted: :twisted:
2)Gas mileage that stays in the 30's.
3)Fantastic future mod options.(Can easily bring your Wgn into the 14 second 1/4(Screw the 10 second 1/8 mile).
If you stick to stock & DON'T get carried away with all the performance upgrades.You can keep it in the FEW Grand budget(including the Hasport kit).
For those that didn't click the link:
an LS or B16 will not make as much power as a single cam with a turbo and they will cost about the same
so just decide about money versus pay-off
if i had my way id just run a stock type R drive train run mid 14's get great mileage and never touch it
but that will cost ya like 5 g's
so get a SOHC 1.6 vtec or not and turbo it
you could do that for 1,000-1,500 easy and when it blows up the parts are easy to come by
that's the dream right there. a stock honda drive train with good power and good mileage.
That would be the dream though. 300hp and 50mpg.
and the H22 is stock and makes great power and torque
or a k series hahahahah
basically if you want stock you gotta go big .... oh well
i like the type r casue its kinda meant to fit an ef where as the other stuff is just a bastard hybrid
I know some guys running stand alone management systems that get about 30mpg with high horsepower motors but they have the ability to change settings for different types of driving. I personally don't tune for MPG I just drive my little wagon when I want to get good gas mileage. As we all know though it is hard to leave this little wagons stock so hopefully this winter I will be putting that ZC in there. however I do have a SOHC VTEC I am also comtemplating so I will watch this thread pretty close to see what you all think also.
it all comes down to what he really wants, how much he wants to spend, and how much work he wants into it....
cheap means a SOHC VTEC with turbo. a step up is a ZC. next is B16A, then B18, then B20/VTEC, then h22/23, then K20, and K24. that pretty much goes up from price and also work involved. with that K-series, a lot of modding working is going to have to be done to the body to allow fit, and also with that H-series too. in my opinion, dropping down 3K for a k-series and another 2-3K for labor that goes into putting in the wagon, isnt worth it at all. but spenidng total 2K for a simple b-series swap is damn worth it. you've got a substantial increase in power/torque, but its not a huge monster. it makes the wagon even more fun to drive. if need be, simple bolt-ons can be done to get the few extra ponies out of the engine. a k-series would get you some "ohhs, and ahhs" but practicality also plays some role in a swap.
If I were to swap in a B16/B18, where could I buy all the parts, and does anyone have a list of what is needed to swap?
I'd also like to keep my A/C and P/S, is that possible?
Will the stock tranny bolt on the other engines?
I'm not new to engines, but I'm new to the whole engine swap stuff.
A/C and PS are still possible, but you're gonna have to use a different mount from a delsol i believe
you plan on keeping it auto? why not change to manual?
FALSE:Remove 1 mount & dent in a 9 square inches of the cross member only 4mm deep.Welding the new mount is the other additional cost.There was a earlier posting by a SWAP Shop that did charge a lot of $$$.It was a class A job, but done W/O the Hasport kit.
If you would like to find out more go read the Hasport installation manual @ their site.
FALSE:K20a3 engine/tranny goes for around $1500.There's a K20a3 on Ebay for $1,000(Ebay # 23004501611 )now.For $3K u get a Type S engine.
"someone stop me if im wrong, we all make mistakes. unfortunately, i make them a lot"
i guess the easiest way to figure this out is what is your budget and what is your know how .... then you can decide
lets say you wanna run a 16 flat that is an ok time for most stock street cars my 96 ex coupe with light mods would barely pull that time
then you have an easy thing to do
lets say you wanna run a 14.5 thats gonna be faster than alot of stock cars and that will put a hurting on alot of mustangs
that to is a pretty easy goal your gonna need car produce like 160-190 horse power
(i know there are about 1,000 factors that influence these things)
my friend got a mid 14 out of a b16 crx minor mods
so weight and power and gearing plus the tires are gonna determine these things
but as i said first a turbo D series is becoming a very good option the B swap craze seems to have worn off a little and people are rediscovering how good these motors are
200 horse on a stock d series motor is pretty easy to do
so just get a budget and work from that
What is your budget? Answer this first and then the rest will be a process of elimination.
Do-able? Yes.
Easy? No. Sorry.
Thats not a budget thats an estimate.
i say get a B16 and boost it!
make sure you replace all of your suspension bushings and get an alignment after you add more power.
When I say I want to run under 10 seconds, that is on a 1/8th mile track.
Also, the Mustangs I am reffering to are V6 Stangs. I know a import will never have the speed/power of a V8 unless it has tons of money into it.
So from what I've read, the ZC is basically a drop-in swap?
My sister's Civic had a D17A1 VTEC in it, and the manual said it had 127 HP, and it was pretty peppy. So, if the ZC is an easy swap, why not do the ZC plus bolt-ons along with FI? Would that be around the same price as a B16 swap but pushing more power?
NOTE: The ricers around my area consist of Civics with huge body kits and wings, with minor bolt ons and fart cannons. Pretty much what you buy at Autozone.
If I wanted to go super fast I would buy a 69 Camaro, but theres just something about these little Wagons that are so fun to drive.
Oh yeah, smog doesn't matter. I live in TN and we don't care about the environment. (haha)
Like I said before, I really don't know the code of all these swaps and such, but I can do it if I am pointed into the right direction.
2,000
well with what you just said i would think a LS motor would be an easy ordeal you could look over my build and i converted to manual from auto too
and any of the motors we have discussed would easily take a 20-70 shot of nitrous for the most part
if you did an LS swap with a b16 transmission (very quick gears) and cams and bolt ons plus a shot of nitrous you would have a seriously fast car for 2,000
thats my 2 cents
all you need is mounts
150-400
shift linkages or you can shorten integra ones like 3 inches if you think thats something you can tackle
50-200
and someone who can convert you wireing to run 4 injectors
there is a ton of info online about the swap
then the auto to manual is easy you just gotta patch a hole and get crafty with a peice from a manual car i used a integra shift boot ring and peice with some pop rivets
then drill two holes and bolt on the rear linkage mount i did that with a hand drill and a friend holding the shifter in place in side the car
and then you could wait a year or so like me get your self a vtec head rework it and get another 30+ or so horse power from the same LS motor