One Valve is Bad and There is Not Compression on one Piston!

ReaccionReaccion Senior Wagonist
in Engine & Drivetrain
Hi guys! Last Saturday, I traveled to Connecticut (CT) from the Bronx (like two hours away). I was driving at around 65-70 where permitted. When I arrived to CT local streets, I felt that my wagon was running a little weak. There was not much power and the engine was shaking a lot. I tried by removing the spark plugs wire with the engine running to see if there was lost power in any of the pistons. I was right. Standing in front of my wagon and counting left to right, the piston # 4 was not working properly. Fortunately, the wagon took me back home but it was using more gas than usual. I checked by changing the spark plug and wire in that particular piston and nothing changed. Someone measured the pressure in all pistons and there was nothing coming from that particular piston. The mechanic told me that a valve went bad.
He charges me $250 plus head gasket and new valve. The thing is that I found somebody else who is willing to swap a 92-95 Civic SI engine for me for $500 (including full swap and labor). However, the same guy offered me to install a 96-00 Civic 1.6L SOHC non-Vtec engine for $600 (including full swap and labor). This last engine, I would have to install a new timing belt and water pump to it since this engine only has 95K.
I am not sure what choice to get. What I could probably fix with $300, it is going to go up to almost $700 if I decided to go for the newer engine. It may be worthy though. Please help me decide!
Thanks,

Update: The mechanic said that he never ran the 92-95 Civic SI engine, that he does not know if it runs. He said that the D16y7 is currently in the car and it is perfectly running.
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Comments

  • turbo_tegturbo_teg Council Member
    if it were me i'd go for the z6 92-95 si/ex motor and do a full obd1 swap while yer at it.
  • kylerwhokylerwho Wagonist
    i would use the d16z6 rather than the newer d16y7 because there is more power to be had with the z6
  • ReaccionReaccion Senior Wagonist
    turbo_teg wrote:
    if it were me i'd go for the z6 92-95 si/ex motor and do a full obd1 swap while yer at it.

    Okay, I see...
  • ReaccionReaccion Senior Wagonist
    kylerwho wrote:
    i would use the d16z6 rather than the newer d16y7 because there is more power to be had with the z6


    I did not know... I thought that the newer the better.... My concern is actually durability/realibity rather than speed...
  • secretcitizensecretcitizen Wagonist
    I would say the y7 is no more reliable than a z6.
    IMHO just do the z6. It's reliable "peppy" and cheap.
  • bikewrenchbikewrench Wagonist
    z6 ftw! The newer y motors are known for oil flow issues, I believe the issue is in the crank shaft.
  • BIOHAZARDBIOHAZARD Wagonist
    go for the z6. i just swapped one and its awesome.
  • ReaccionReaccion Senior Wagonist
    Update: The mechanic said that he never ran the 92-95 Civic SI engine, that he does not know if it runs. He said that the D16y7 is currently in the car and it is perfectly running. Would that change anything?
  • superhatchsuperhatch Moderator
    Fwiw I just went through the hassle of buying two bad Z6's off of craigslist. If you are looking for reliability more than anything else, go with the Y7. If you feel like rolling the dice for an extra 30hp, then do the Z6.
  • ReaccionReaccion Senior Wagonist
    superhatch wrote:
    Fwiw I just went through the hassle of buying two bad Z6's off of craigslist. If you are looking for reliability more than anything else, go with the Y7. If you feel like rolling the dice for an extra 30hp, then do the Z6.


    The only thing is that I am paying the guy to receive a working vehicle, if the engine does not run after it is installed, it is his problem... But I guess you are right....
  • JakerJaker familEE
    Go for the Y7. The Z6 is an unknown quantity. You literally have no idea what your buying. Even the seller says so! At least the Y7 is coming from a known good running car, and you know exactly what you're getting. You are probably right that the seller would be responsible for delivering a properly running engine if you went with the Z6, but what sort of warranty will he give you? A tail light warranty? Do you want to deal with the possible hassles?
  • superhatchsuperhatch Moderator
    I agree with Jaker. Lets say that the Z6 is bad, you then have to wait for him to find another Z6, of unknown quality, and then wait for that delivery and install. Even if he got something from a yard with start-up guarantee, that's still extra down time.
  • Jonny042Jonny042 Band Wagon
    Not sure if you need this particular advice, but generally speaking, valves don't "go bad" all by themselves.

    So in your case it might be wise to find out why in fact that one valve did go south. Perhaps a plugged injector, etc. Because of course you don't want to have it happen again.

    If it was me I'd stick with the stock original motor, at least you know it's history, if it's reliability you are after.
  • ReaccionReaccion Senior Wagonist
    Jaker wrote:
    Go for the Y7. The Z6 is an unknown quantity. You literally have no idea what your buying. Even the seller says so! At least the Y7 is coming from a known good running car, and you know exactly what you're getting. You are probably right that the seller would be responsible for delivering a properly running engine if you went with the Z6, but what sort of warranty will he give you? A tail light warranty? Do you want to deal with the possible hassles?
    Yes, the Y7 is even still installed in the car. He wants me to install the Y7. I am just a little more amazed by the difference in HP... I have not talked to him about the Z6 warranty...
  • ReaccionReaccion Senior Wagonist
    superhatch wrote:
    I agree with Jaker. Lets say that the Z6 is bad, you then have to wait for him to find another Z6, of unknown quality, and then wait for that delivery and install. Even if he got something from a yard with start-up guarantee, that's still extra down time.
    Yes, unless he repairs this Z6 one, I do not think that is going to be able to find another head locally for cheap. And he is not ordering another one. It will be too much money for what he is charging me to do the job....
  • ReaccionReaccion Senior Wagonist
    Jonny042 wrote:
    Not sure if you need this particular advice, but generally speaking, valves don't "go bad" all by themselves.

    So in your case it might be wise to find out why in fact that one valve did go south. Perhaps a plugged injector, etc. Because of course you don't want to have it happen again.

    If it was me I'd stick with the stock original motor, at least you know it's history, if it's reliability you are after.
    Well, the mechanic who checked the car only removed the valve cover and measured the piston compression and was zero. Nobody has gone deep into it yet. To do so, it is needed to remove the head and I want to be ready in case a cylinder is bad or something worse. I would like to stick to my original engine. It is actually a very good plus for my wagon. Especially knowing that all the parts that I have been installing on the wagon are brand new OEM Genuine Honda from the dealer. But the first mechanic is charging me $250 for removing the head and re-installing the valve. Plus head gasket and new valve or valves. The other guy is charging me $600 including motor and labor for a full engine swap... It is really tentative...
  • secretcitizensecretcitizen Wagonist
    Well changing a valve is a pain in the ass. There are alot of steps to even get to the valve and then remove it.
    If you have a cracked valve guide that has to be replaced, and once you get a new valve it has to be seated so it doesn't leak. then reassemble.

    Believe me, I know, I did it 3 times on my b20vtec.
  • ReaccionReaccion Senior Wagonist
    secretcitizen wrote:
    Well changing a valve is a pain in the ass. There are alot of steps to even get to the valve and then remove it.
    If you have a cracked valve guide that has to be replaced, and once you get a new valve it has to be seated so it doesn't leak. then reassemble.

    Believe me, I know, I did it 3 times on my b20vtec.


    Yes, I understand. That is why I think the second mechanic was suggesting me to change the engine instead... What do you think that it could be causing it?
  • ReaccionReaccion Senior Wagonist
    My wagon is stock (92Hp if so). I also own a 2006 Honda Civic 4dr sedan which handles 140 Hp. I understand that I should never expect the same power from a 17 years older engine/engineering. But I always had in mind to get a little bit more horse power when something happened to this engine. I just did not think that it was going to be so quick. What I mean is that I would go for a more powerful engine when I would have a chance.... I am not sure if this is the right time to do so.... I may just fix the my current engine valve (92Hp) ($250.00 labor + OEM $24.00 each valve + OEM $55.00 head gasket = $329.00), I could install the Z6 (125Hp) taking the already mentioned chances ($500.00 everything included), or I could go for the properly running Y7 (106Hp) with 95K ($600.00 engine/labor + $75.00 OEM water pump + $45.00 OEM timing belt (to play safe) + extra $60.00 for water pump and timing belt labor = $780.00)...
  • The_HeadThe_Head familEE
    So, are you running the Y7 block with the D15B2 DPFI intake manifold and head?
  • ReaccionReaccion Senior Wagonist
    The_Head wrote:
    So, are you running the Y7 block with the D15B2 DPFI intake manifold and head?
    No, no yet. I have not decided what to install yet. I am trying to get some suggestions from you guys.
  • ReaccionReaccion Senior Wagonist
    So, what I have decided is that I am just buying the Z6 head and installing it on my regular wagovan engine ($250 Labor/Z6 Head + $56 OEM Head Gasket + $4.00 OEM Cam Seal = $310.00). What you guys think???? Remember, I am not changing the manifold intake. I am leaving the regular 2 injectors Wagovan manifold and everything else....
  • 1988rt1988rt Senior Wagonist
    I think you should go with the y7, Its a perfectly good running engine. I did one of those in my wife's cosin's car and it did fine, she's been putting that wagon around for almost a year with no issues
  • ReaccionReaccion Senior Wagonist
    1988rt wrote:
    I think you should go with the y7, Its a perfectly good running engine. I did one of those in my wife's cosin's car and it did fine, she's been putting that wagon around for almost a year with no issues

    The Y7 (106Hp) with 95K ($600.00 engine/labor + $75.00 OEM water pump + $45.00 OEM timing belt (to play safe) + extra $60.00 for water pump and timing belt labor = $780.00)... I may just fix the my current engine (92Hp) ($250.00 labor/head + OEM head gasket $56.00 + OEM cam seal $4.00 = $310.00 ONLY).
  • bikewrenchbikewrench Wagonist
    Just replacing your head with the z6 sounds like a good idea if you're on a budget. I would go ahead and pick up the intake mani even if you don't use it right away. Later down the road do a mpfi/obd1 conversion.
  • ReaccionReaccion Senior Wagonist
    bikewrench wrote:
    Just replacing your head with the z6 sounds like a good idea if you're on a budget. I would go ahead and pick up the intake mani even if you don't use it right away. Later down the road do a mpfi/obd1 conversion.

    Great, installing a D16Z6 head on my regular D15 block without the manifold intake, would it give me a little more HP?? Please keep in mind that mine is automatic transmission....
  • stampernstampern Senior Wagonist
    I vote for fixing the current one. Even if the head is bad, they are cheap (at least over here they are - I can get them all day long for like $50 or less). Too bad I'm not closer - that's a cake job to do.
  • PeterPansWagovanPeterPansWagovan Wagonist
    I would do one of the motor swaps or fix your current motor, I know 3 people now that have done the d16 head on the d15 bottom end, this is a fairly common swap called a mini-me. I personally have done it out of necessity with a known good block and head .. 3 months later, i swapped back to my original d15b2 because the mini me had developed a knock and i was too afraid to drive it the 10 miles to work everyday ..

    d16z6 would honestly be your better choice for the money, just have him do a compression test and look at the timing belt & water pump for any signs of leakage or dry rotting, you will be alot happier in the long end .. 25 hp doesnt sound like alot but thats a 25% gain over using the y7
  • ReaccionReaccion Senior Wagonist
    stampern wrote:
    I vote for fixing the current one. Even if the head is bad, they are cheap (at least over here they are - I can get them all day long for like $50 or less). Too bad I'm not closer - that's a cake job to do.

    Yes, that is what I am thinking on doing. I am just changing the head (D16Z6). I am getting supposedly for $50.00 but the guy is charging me $200.00 to do the job. I do not know if I am being over charged knowing that he is only changing the head. I do not know how easy it is to change a head since I have never done it. But I do not really want to start with this one.
  • ReaccionReaccion Senior Wagonist
    PeterPansWagovan wrote:
    I would do one of the motor swaps or fix your current motor, I know 3 people now that have done the d16 head on the d15 bottom end, this is a fairly common swap called a mini-me. I personally have done it out of necessity with a known good block and head .. 3 months later, i swapped back to my original d15b2 because the mini me had developed a knock and i was too afraid to drive it the 10 miles to work everyday ..

    d16z6 would honestly be your better choice for the money, just have him do a compression test and look at the timing belt & water pump for any signs of leakage or dry rotting, you will be alot happier in the long end .. 25 hp doesnt sound like alot but thats a 25% gain over using the y7

    Yes, but remember that the mini-me would not work on its best because I would be using my regular same 2 injector manifold intake. Harness will be the same as well s computer. My wagon is automatic. I do not think that I would be getting much out of it anyways. I do not think that I would push the engine that much either.
    If I do the d16z6 head with my current D15 block, I do not think that I would have to change the timing belt or water pump. The water pump and timing belts are almost brand new from Honda. I installed them like 5 months ago (6K miles ago). But let’s see what happens.
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