Can I tap this hole deeper?

udubrx7udubrx7 Senior Wagonist
in Engine & Drivetrain
Hey everybody,

I am reusing the D16A6 from my totaled wagon in my new hatchback. The only problem is that the driver's side engine mount tore out of the block in the crash. I have already re-tapped the upper bolt hole in the block one size larger (same thread pitch) to M12x1.25 with a forming tap, and there are plenty of threads available. My problem is that the lower bolt tore out diagonally and there isn't but about 2 threads left.

Does anybody have any idea if I can get away with drilling this hole deeper in order to tap more threads?

I'm already working on fabricating an engine mount "extension" that will be able to bolt to the front of the block, but I reaaaally want to try and get a bolt torqued down in both of the stock mount holes also.

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Comments

  • JakerJaker familEE
    That's very close height wise to the spot where the water jacket ends and some of the oil passages begin. I'd be very leary about making that hole any deeper. At the very least, you would have to strip down the motor to be able to access that spot from the inside to identify exactly what is there.
  • udubrx7udubrx7 Senior Wagonist
    OK thanks. I would just go ahead and replace the block if it came down to stripping down the engine.

    Any input on what else I could do to try and strengthen this connection? I'm going to mock up the bracket I want to fabricate with cardboard today, I'll get some pictures.

    Thanks Jaker!
  • bam-bambam-bam Council Member
    There already IS a bracket where you're talking about in the d15b2s...that is if I understand your intent. It bolts to the 2 holes on the front of the block and to the front side of the engine mount bracket.Kinda reaches around the corner. Anybody know what I mean, or am I misremembering again?
  • bam-bambam-bam Council Member
    Also, a suggestion: I'd make darn sure that the 2 fore-and-aft mounts are good, even do the urethane inserts to keep it from twisting at the weak spot.
  • udubrx7udubrx7 Senior Wagonist
    bam-bam wrote:
    There already IS a bracket where you're talking about in the d15b2s...that is if I understand your intent. It bolts to the 2 holes on the front of the block and to the front side of the engine mount bracket.Kinda reaches around the corner. Anybody know what I mean, or am I misremembering again?

    Yes I know exactly what you're talking about. Here it is:
    479.jpg

    Only it has one bolt hole in the block and one bolt hole in the mount. The piece I'm fabbing is meant to weld onto that bracket and bolt lower in the front of the block to effectively make the bracket into a triangle.

    And yes I double checked the front and rear mounts, they are fine, and I am going to continue to use my poly inserts as well.

    thanks for the input guys!
  • JakerJaker familEE
    bam-bam wrote:
    There already IS a bracket where you're talking about in the d15b2s...that is if I understand your intent. It bolts to the 2 holes on the front of the block and to the front side of the engine mount bracket.Kinda reaches around the corner. Anybody know what I mean, or am I misremembering again?

    That same bracket is on the D16A6 as well.
  • doitdubdoitdub familEE
    udubrx7 wrote:
    Any input on what else I could do to try and strengthen this connection?
    Get the earhole built up with a good weld. On my B16, the rear engine mount hole was busted off some how, only a 1/2 moon remained. I hadn't noticed it before I bought the engine, so I was screwed as the kid I bought it from "didn't know anything about it". Had to find someone that could weld aluminum or have a $1k paper weight. After several calls found someone that did a very good job for $150, and it's held up great 3 years now.
  • udubrx7udubrx7 Senior Wagonist
    doitdub wrote:
    Get the earhole built up with a good weld. On my B16, the rear engine mount hole was busted off some how, only a 1/2 moon remained. I hadn't noticed it before I bought the engine, so I was screwed as the kid I bought it from "didn't know anything about it". Had to find someone that could weld aluminum or have a $1k paper weight. After several calls found someone that did a very good job for $150, and it's held up great 3 years now.

    I'll keep that in mind, but I'm super broke. If I had any extra money I would just go ahead and buy another A6 block from someone.

    Here is what I'm working on for the new mount bracket. Looks like I need to drill out another piece of plate so that I can get the edge of it and the bracket above it more parallel before I weld it.

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    493.jpg
  • deceptakhandeceptakhan Wagonist
    The damage is veery similar to Honda trans case mount damage. I had this same damage done to a B17 I owned. To repair it you will need to take it down to a skilled machine shop. They will refill the hole and damaged area with aluminum, the drikll and tap a fresh mount hole.

    And the machine shop may be cheaper than you think...
  • udubrx7udubrx7 Senior Wagonist
    I asked around locally and was quoted $75 (an hour of labor) to just fill it in, I can drill and tap it myself no problem. I guess I'll go this route if my custom mount doesn't work out.
  • JL56TCJL56TC New Wagonist
    lol no power steering.... are you crazy...lol jk
  • udubrx7udubrx7 Senior Wagonist
    2wd wagons don't have power steering!
  • udubrx7udubrx7 Senior Wagonist
    Well I got the mount all welded up, here is what it looks like. I hope it works!

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  • bam-bambam-bam Council Member
    udubrx7 wrote:
    2wd wagons don't have power steering!


    2wd automatic ones do.
  • udubrx7udubrx7 Senior Wagonist
    Automatic transmissions don't exist in my little made up world in my head!
  • bam-bambam-bam Council Member
    Nice! What color is the sky?
  • udubrx7udubrx7 Senior Wagonist
    It's thats weird golden color like when it's just stopped raining and it's still cloudy, but the sun in shining in from the side as it does down and is lighting it up under the clouds. Plus we have darkening during the daytime when there is a loud thunder clap and the sky flashes dark and a big black thunder bolt crashes the sky.
  • nominousnominous familEE
    I had a similar thing on a B20 engine. I had the hole redrilled, tapped and helicoiled. There was some damamge but not as bad as yours.
    I've seen another B20 block which was as bad as yours but he was fitting to a mk3 civic which front mounts from the head so got the block dirt cheap.

    I like your engineeering around the solution but for me, I'd definately have had it welded and retapped.
    I think you want to put a vertical brace on the underside of the link from your plate to the rubber mount, so the link would look like a T cross sectioned.
  • JakerJaker familEE
    Why the extra washers under the plate at the bottom? It looks like that's twisting your engine mount/bracket so the bottom bolt hole on the original stripped hole doesn't line up anymore.
  • udubrx7udubrx7 Senior Wagonist
    Jaker wrote:
    Why the extra washers under the plate at the bottom? It looks like that's twisting your engine mount/bracket so the bottom bolt hole on the original stripped hole doesn't line up anymore.
    I see what you're saying, but I think it just looks a little weird in the picture. The bolt holes still line up, I had a bolt in them before I took that picture, but it will only catch about 2 threads at the very bottom. The washers were necessary so that when I torqued down the bolts in the plate it didn't put stress on the weld by bending the plate.

    I cut a piece off the end of the plate today and sprayed it with some rustoleum, then dropped the engine in. No problems with getting the mounts all bolted in, everything went right together and the engine appears to be sitting normally.

    549.jpg

    And here's me hoping this shit is gunna work!
    550.jpg

    Got the engine in....
    551.jpg
    552.jpg

    And just for kicks here are some triple trees my roommate made in the CNC mill for a guy in Southport, NC building a high speed bike. Pure metal sex!
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  • oxbeardoxbeard Wagonist
    you could just get the power steering pump mount from another civic. it mounts into all those same holes. and im pretty sure the bracket in my 95 civic is the exact same one so you have many choices on where to get it from. then wont look all uglified!
  • udubrx7udubrx7 Senior Wagonist
    I'm not familiar with how that PS bracket bolts up and what it looks like.... got any pictures of the one on your car so I can get a better idea?
  • udubrx7udubrx7 Senior Wagonist
    Well I tried to find an engine bay pic but the bracket is totally hidden by the headers and pump. Best I could find was this parts diagram from hondapartsnow.com . I'm assuming #10 in red in the piece you're talking about. Still not sure exactly how it bolts up to the car though.... I'm assuming bolts #25 and #23 go into two of the holes in the front of the block, but how else does it attach?

    627.jpg
  • udubrx7udubrx7 Senior Wagonist
    H'OK so....

    I found a power steering bracket in one of my spare parts bins. Parts hoarding ftw! So now I see what you're talking about! I guess I should have just used this in the first place to make it all that much easier, but it was kind of fun to make that bracket. I'm just going to run what I've got on there right now and see how it does. I put a really thick coat of spray paint over the weld so hopefully if it flexes at all the paint will crack and I'll be able to tell. We'll see what happens! I think in the long run it would be a better idea to run the PS bracket because the holes that the mount bolts go through are much closer to the diameter of the bolts. On my bracket I had to use the only big drill bit I could find in the drill press to make the holes, so they are a bit bigger than the bolts. But with four big bolts in there it shouldn't be a problem...... anyways ramble ramble ramble......

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  • turbo_tegturbo_teg Council Member
    Re: Can I tap this hole deeper?

    I ask myself this every time i get ready to bang my fiance.
  • bam-bambam-bam Council Member
    turbo_teg wrote:
    Re: Can I tap this hole deeper?

    I ask myself this every time i get ready to bang my fiance.


    you romantic devil, you...


    I can't lie, the thread title has made me grin a few times too.
  • udubrx7udubrx7 Senior Wagonist
    lol you guys........... have me figured out. I was wondering when somebody was going to say something!
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