First gen 4wd Cr-v Driveshaft in wagon?

XSPower-DerekXSPower-Derek Wagonist
in Engine & Drivetrain
has anyone considered this? i dont have acess to a first gen Cr-v so i cant measure but if it was the correct length what would stop us from bolting this up (plus the support bearing if it has one) and putting an LSD in the rear end to have true AWD?

Comments

  • turbo_tegturbo_teg Council Member
    the flanges arent the same and the length isnt the same either. LSD or not in the back do this and u would have a true 50/50 power split but when u try to make a tight corner the rear tires are gunna want to out run the front tires because they are taking a shorter path around the corner. go to the junk yard and find a wagon with a spare viscouse coupler weld it up throw it in and see if u like it....
  • XSPower-DerekXSPower-Derek Wagonist
    turbo_teg wrote:
    the flanges arent the same and the length isnt the same either. LSD or not in the back do this and u would have a true 50/50 power split but when u try to make a tight corner the rear tires are gunna want to out run the front tires because they are taking a shorter path around the corner. go to the junk yard and find a wagon with a spare viscouse coupler weld it up throw it in and see if u like it....

    guess you didnt catch the part about bolting a D series LSD up in the rear...


    and there are no other Rt4wd civ's around me, otherwise i would have already done that

    if the length is anywhere close ill make adapters for the flanges
  • JakerJaker familEE
    TurboTeg is right. Without some sort of center diff, the back wheels will scrub pretty hard on a turn. You don't need to go to the CRV driveshaft to have an LSD at the back either.
  • XSPower-DerekXSPower-Derek Wagonist
    Jaker wrote:
    TurboTeg is right. Without some sort of center diff, the back wheels will scrub pretty hard on a turn. You don't need to go to the CRV driveshaft to have an LSD at the back either.


    it was my understanding that the LSD replaced the center diff correct? im just asking about the cvr driveshaft because if it is the correct length then i could have acess to one of those waaaay easier than finding an rt4wd driveshaft...


    if the Crv driveshaft doesnt have a viscous coupler then whats the difference between running on of those and the custom one piece drive shaft you have (besides weight, this is also assuming LSD in the back)
  • XSPower-DerekXSPower-Derek Wagonist
    guess it would help you guys understand why im asking if I tell you I dont have a driveshaft at all, there wasnt one in my car when i got it... so to get the AWD (with LSD replacing the center diff) working ive gotta find a driveshaft... and that has been a pretty big challenge ( to find one at a reasonable price)
  • JakerJaker familEE
    The CRV driveshaft has no viscous coupler. It is an internal part in the rear differential housing. It is not part of the rear diff per se, in that it has no interaction between the rear wheels, but it does apportion torque to the rear wheels along the same lines as the viscous coupler in the Wagon driveshaft.

    The LSD that I installed in my rear diff has nothing to do at all with splitting the torque between the front and the rear wheels. It only acts as a go between for the rear wheels, along the same lines as an LSD that would be installed in the front of a FWD vehicle.

    I think I understand what you're trying to do. You want an LSD (or torque distributing device) between the front and rear wheels. Something that will lock when there's a speed difference between front and rear, along the same lines as the OEM viscous coupler, but mechanical instead. I know Quaife sold some for the center position on the 1st gen DSM AWD vehicles. Otherwise, I don't think you could fit a regular LSD in the front to rear driveshaft. Either way, it would involve a ton of fabrication, so while you're at it, you may as well manipulate the length of the CRV driveshaft and fit it in there at the same time.
  • turbo_tegturbo_teg Council Member
    it would be tits to have some sort of locker in the driveline that was electric so u could flip in and out..... or even better put a solid driveline in and rig something on the tranny to have a push button style 4x4.....
  • XSPower-DerekXSPower-Derek Wagonist
    Jaker wrote:
    The CRV driveshaft has no viscous coupler. It is an internal part in the rear differential housing. It is not part of the rear diff per se, in that it has no interaction between the rear wheels, but it does apportion torque to the rear wheels along the same lines as the viscous coupler in the Wagon driveshaft.

    The LSD that I installed in my rear diff has nothing to do at all with splitting the torque between the front and the rear wheels. It only acts as a go between for the rear wheels, along the same lines as an LSD that would be installed in the front of a FWD vehicle.

    I think I understand what you're trying to do. You want an LSD (or torque distributing device) between the front and rear wheels. Something that will lock when there's a speed difference between front and rear, along the same lines as the OEM viscous coupler, but mechanical instead. I know Quaife sold some for the center position on the 1st gen DSM AWD vehicles. Otherwise, I don't think you could fit a regular LSD in the front to rear driveshaft. Either way, it would involve a ton of fabrication, so while you're at it, you may as well manipulate the length of the CRV driveshaft and fit it in there at the same time.


    no im trying to do somthing similar to your setup, but instead of using a custom carbon fiber driveshaft i would just use one from a CRV... are you saying that wont work?


    and turbo teg, if you wanted a driveshaft you could disengage why dont you try to find the driveshaft ou6\t of an 85-87 wagon with the wth the push button disengaging driveshaft?
  • JakerJaker familEE
    I think you'd be faced with a lot of tire scrubbing and less than desirable handling from doing that. I think that's exactly how TurboTeg had his AWD CRX set up. He'd be the one with more input on this. I'm not worried about it because there's nothing going to my front wheels!
  • XSPower-DerekXSPower-Derek Wagonist
    Jaker wrote:
    I think you'd be faced with a lot of tire scrubbing and less than desirable handling from doing that. I think that's exactly how TurboTeg had his AWD CRX set up. He'd be the one with more input on this. I'm not worried about it because there's nothing going to my front wheels!

    i guess im not seeing how there will be more wheel bind than your setup if i put the LSD into the rear diff exactly like yours but use the Crv "solid" driveshaft instead of the custom driveshaft your running?
  • turbo_tegturbo_teg Council Member
    imagine your in your wagon and u turn the steering wheel all the way to the right or left then make 1 complete circle get out and if u were on gravel u could see the lines from all 4 tires. the distance the front tires travel is longer that the rear tires because your rear tires took a shorter route inside your front tires. the only reason they can do this is because of your viscouse coupler it gives just enough to let them turn at different speeds. If your viscouse coupler was welded or if u had a solid driveline custom or from a CRV the front tires would be trying to make the rear tires spin faster while the rear tires are trying to make the fronts turn slower........ i dont know how else to explain it. but take ot from me like jaker noted i had a CRX i swapped the RT4wd wagon drivetrain in it and had a solid driveline made it was BAD at low speeds with a set of falken azenis at full turn i dam near had to use SL to make the car move and it felt like it was just ready to break something...

    Im all about the LSD that sounds awsome but i dont recoment a solid driveline for daily driving it would be fun to have a solid driveline for autoX or gettin crazy in the snow.... hope this helps
  • XSPower-DerekXSPower-Derek Wagonist
    turbo_teg wrote:
    imagine your in your wagon and u turn the steering wheel all the way to the right or left then make 1 complete circle get out and if u were on gravel u could see the lines from all 4 tires. the distance the front tires travel is longer that the rear tires because your rear tires took a shorter route inside your front tires. the only reason they can do this is because of your viscouse coupler it gives just enough to let them turn at different speeds. If your viscouse coupler was welded or if u had a solid driveline custom or from a CRV the front tires would be trying to make the rear tires spin faster while the rear tires are trying to make the fronts turn slower........ i dont know how else to explain it. but take ot from me like jaker noted i had a CRX i swapped the RT4wd wagon drivetrain in it and had a solid driveline made it was BAD at low speeds with a set of falken azenis at full turn i dam near had to use SL to make the car move and it felt like it was just ready to break something...

    Im all about the LSD that sounds awsome but i dont recoment a solid driveline for daily driving it would be fun to have a solid driveline for autoX or gettin crazy in the snow.... hope this helps


    right but if there was an LSD in the rear end wouldnt that allow the wheels to turn at different speeds? thus performing the exact same function as the viscous coupler but the rear wheels are always driven?
  • JakerJaker familEE
    No it wouldn't. From a front tire turning radius to a rear tire turning radius, LSD or open diff, there'd be no difference.
  • XSPower-DerekXSPower-Derek Wagonist
    Jaker wrote:
    No it wouldn't. From a front tire turning radius to a rear tire turning radius, LSD or open diff, there'd be no difference.


    i see... well then wouldnt this mean the whole idea I was going for (that we PM'ed about) wouldnt work at all?
  • turbo_tegturbo_teg Council Member
    ahh i get what yer sayin now..... just face it hondas 4wd/AWD will never be amazing it helps and is fun but nothing like a subaru or a mitsubishi at all.
  • JakerJaker familEE
    I don't understand what you're getting at. The last PM conversation we had was about my driveshaft and the custom rear axles bought. If you're going RWD, that's the way I'd go. If you're going AWD, I think you need to consider having some sort of diff/viscous coupler in the middle.

    Otherwise, just go with the OEM setup. I understand you're having trouble getting a driveshaft. I guess that's the cross we bear when we're dealing with a 20 year old car with limited production numbers.
  • XSPower-DerekXSPower-Derek Wagonist
    Jaker wrote:
    I don't understand what you're getting at. The last PM conversation we had was about my driveshaft and the custom rear axles bought. If you're going RWD, that's the way I'd go. If you're going AWD, I think you need to consider having some sort of diff/viscous coupler in the middle.

    Otherwise, just go with the OEM setup. I understand you're having trouble getting a driveshaft. I guess that's the cross we bear when we're dealing with a 20 year old car with limited production numbers.

    I was intending on going AWD with a solid shaft and an LSD in the rear end because i was under the assumption that the LSD in the rear would eliminate that wheel binding issue...

    and i REALLY dont see the point in keeping the factory viscous coupler because I hate the way the entire system works, I would rather have a way to disconnect the rear end completely when i want

    which means I guess ill be looking for a 85-87 driveshaft with the electronic disengaging mechanisim...
  • turbo_tegturbo_teg Council Member
    that would be tits theres an old school wagon rotting to death in my buddies yard he always asks me to get it running for him but never actually wants to bring it over to me.
  • DD Wagonist
    XSPower-Derek wrote:
    Jaker wrote:
    which means I guess ill be looking for a 85-87 driveshaft with the electronic disengaging mechanisim...

    The 84-86 4x4 (not realtime AWD) wagovan do have a pushbutton on the dash to dis-engage the prop shaft.
    19.jpg

    Vacuum actuated, it disconnects the rear output of the transmission, as if you were manually moving the 'tow' lever on the RT transmission units, that's it.

    722.jpg
  • turbo_tegturbo_teg Council Member
    dam a fella could prolly make that work on an RT.....
  • DD Wagonist
    turbo_teg wrote:
    dam a fella could prolly make that work on an RT.....

    It's won't directly 'bolt on' as the transmission cases and rear 'T' Bracket are different. With some fabrication, it would be more than possible. There is also a control box mounted on the firewall that houses the solenoid control valves, hoses, etc.
  • XSPower-DerekXSPower-Derek Wagonist
    D wrote:
    turbo_teg wrote:
    dam a fella could prolly make that work on an RT.....

    It's won't directly 'bolt on' as the transmission cases and rear 'T' Bracket are different. With some fabrication, it would be more than possible. There is also a control box mounted on the firewall that houses the solenoid control valves, hoses, etc.


    yep, you sir have just provided pic of exactly what i was looking for.... thank you very much
  • turbo_tegturbo_teg Council Member
    find one and be sure to post pics on how u make it fit. i know a buddy who has one maybe even two of the old school wagons in his moms yard.
  • klumklum Senior Wagonist
    why not just unscrew the bolt that allows you to adjust from 4wd to fwd and weld a lever that is connected all the way to your dash and there you go.
  • XSPower-DerekXSPower-Derek Wagonist
    klum wrote:
    why not just unscrew the bolt that allows you to adjust from 4wd to fwd and weld a lever that is connected all the way to your dash and there you go.

    it would be kinda hard to route that... unless it was a wire, i would kind of rather use an actuator... if i already had a driveshaft i would just make this setup, but i do not... so im trying to find an entire setup all together
  • XSPower-DerekXSPower-Derek Wagonist
    well... it looks like none of the leads i had panned out so im back to square one, making my own actuator setup to control the rear wheels
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