replacing piston rings

nicktarantellinicktarantelli Band Wagon
in Engine & Drivetrain
hi there,

so, i have this 90 rt4wd with a stick. ~ 112k miles. i've had it since the spring, but have only really put on any miles since the weather turned here in new york (about 3 weeks). anyway, it seems to use a fair amount of oil, maybe 1 qt./400 miles or so. i replaced the valve stem seals in the fall to take care of a problem with them, so i figure it needs new rings. not sure what the compression is like, but it seems to run fairly well, so i don't think that's an issue.

my question is this. i read on some forum somewhere about a guy claiming to have changed the rings on his car ( a toyota) without pulling the head off- he was able to do the whole thing through the underside.

i've never heard of this (not that that means anything...)

has anyone here had any experience with changing the rings, and does the above (do it without pulling the head) seem possible? it seems like it would certainly simplify the process.

Comments

  • bam-bambam-bam Council Member
    Sounds like BS.

    I've built scores of engines,from Briggs and Stratton to Cummins, and can't recall even one that this would work on. Why would you not want to remove the head?
  • evol911evol911 familEE
    Was the guy talking about pulling the whole bottom end, i.e. oil pan, girdle, crankshaft to pull the pistons out? I think you would run into some interference at the bottom of the cylinders on a Honda. :roll:
  • nicktarantellinicktarantelli Band Wagon
    his post wasn't very specific, but i got the impression that he was able to do this just pulling the oil pan, and working around the crank. it sounds a bit unlikely to me too, but why would you make this up? not having seen this end of my engine, i have no idea how possible/impossible it might be, hence this post. as for why not take off the head, well, if you can do the job just as well working from 1 side as you can from both, why not?

    any other thoughts?
  • bam-bambam-bam Council Member
    no effing way.
  • kylerwhokylerwho Wagonist
    i think it could be possible but the problem would be keeping the rings compressed against the piston so they line up just perfectly to slide into the sleeve. i have helped do it on an older toyota motor (20r) but it was so difficult that we ended up taking the head off and slipping the other three in from the top.
  • evol911evol911 familEE
    Not possible with a Honda :roll:

    dsc04273q.jpg

    1.jpg
  • nicktarantellinicktarantelli Band Wagon
    thanks for the responses, it looks like i'll be taking the head off for this. any thoughts as to any other causes for high oil consumption? and, when i get around to this job, are there any other things i should think about doing, given how dis-assembled the engine will be?

    thanks again.......
  • vtecn8ivevtecn8ive Senior Wagonist
    How about this..

    do you have smoke? Is your coolant or oil milky or froth like?

    I would highly recommend a compression test (you can rent them from an auto parts store for free).
  • nicktarantellinicktarantelli Band Wagon
    after a bit more reading, and a look or 2 under the hood, i've done a few things. first, the tube from the air filter housing to the fuel injection had some really sharp bends/creases in it. why, who knows, but it seems like that would have an effect on efficiency/mpg, which has been hovering around 26mpg (lower than i'd like or expect). so, i took a saw to the snorkle coming off of the filter housing, cutting off about 3 inches, and reattached everything, resulting in much smoother curves/a less constricted tube. lets see if that helps that situation at all.

    second, a bunch of reading convinced me to have a look at the pcv valve. there is a lot out there that suggests that a clogged pcv will have a negative effect on oil consumption. a new valve from napa was $11, and 10 minutes to find the old one (which was plugged) and install. i'm hoping that this will help with the oil consumption (111000 miles seems a bit early to need new rings). we'll see. it can't hurt, and may save me a big (and maybe unneeded) tear down this spring.

    i'm pretty good about tracking the mpg as well as the oil consumption. i'll do another post in a few days time to let you know if these things have had any effect (i put a lot of miles on this car, about 80-100/day, so i should have some idea soon).
  • bam-bambam-bam Council Member
    Good work, man. A clogged PCV can cause some oil consumption, no doubt, and a choked off intake is no good either. Got pics of the before status? Just wondering why the tube would be kinked...wrong parts maybe?
  • CharbCharb Administrator
    nicktarantelli wrote:
    i got the impression that he was able to do this just pulling the oil pan, and working around the crank.

    lol

    Save yourself the headache, and just swap another long block.

    Questions are awesome. But building a motor isn't something that should be done by asking IMHO

    'If you have to ask...'

    good luck
  • Eagle BeagleEagle Beagle familEE
    it's not textbook material...
    that is...

    you need the right tools,
    skill, experience, knowledge...
    etc, etc, blah blah blah...

    but never hurts to start...
    somewhere...

    :mrgreen:
  • nicktarantellinicktarantelli Band Wagon
    well, i can't say that i've ever given this particular job a try before, but over the years i've been happy to attempt a lot of others of varying difficulty. as i see it, this is just a series of small jobs stuck together to make 1 big job. as for tools, i've been collecting them for 25 or so years. the only thing i'd probably need to pick up is a ring compressing tool. i might never need it again, but tools are something i never hesitate to spend money on. and i'm always up for a new challenge.

    still, i'm waiting on a few tanks worth of gas to see what effects, if any, the pcv valve and smoother intake have had. no sense doing a job this complex if the gains won't justify the effort.

    in response to an earlier post, the coolant looks fine, no evidence there of a blown head gasket.
  • Eagle BeagleEagle Beagle familEE
    swap...

    someones lawnmower...
    needs an engine...

    :mrgreen:
  • nicktarantellinicktarantelli Band Wagon
    why do a swap rather than a repair? and what would you swap, a rebuilt, a jdm ?
  • Eagle BeagleEagle Beagle familEE
    swap equals skills...
    and having faith...

    repair equals knowledge...

    i'm not you...

    would like to help...
    but can't...
    sorry
    :mrgreen:
  • nicktarantellinicktarantelli Band Wagon
    so, now i'm also wondering about the valve guides being worn, causing the oil burning. has anyone here ever replaced valve guides on one of these (stock d16a6). what's that job like? is there any way to tell if 1 is worn vs the other (piston rings vs. valve guides)?
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