fuck... didnt work. seems some oil is in there and is making it sticky...
next im trying compressed air. if that doesnt work... im thinking im gonna get some kinda high pressure water sprayer in there and drown em out!!!
phew didnt have to go for the water thing, thank god. i used an air compressor at work and a straw! worked like a charm. a few chunks fell down past the spark plug when i took it out. i was able to get the straw down in there and get all those out too.
i got alot of weird looks from coworkers... i work at HP, the air compressors arent usually used on cars there.
1. i keep having problems starting my car.
every once in a while it will just crank but not start. usually after a few tries it will start. but while the car is running i constantly get an error code 16 which is fuel injection system.
Im thinking main relay. but why am i still getting the code after its running and starts fine? my thinking is that if the relay is working and the car is running fine there wouldnt be a code until there is a problem.
Yesterday the car wouldnt start so i checked the codes. i got 1 and 14. is this because the car thought it was started after i cranked it??
o2 sensor and IACV. after it finally fired up these codes went away and i just have 16.
anyway, anyone have input on whether they think this is it or if i should look elsewhere?
2. another thing... probably unrelated, and is a much less common problem for me.
sometimes i will turn the key and nothing will happen at all. doesnt turn over. sometimes a few tries works... or if i just keep the key turned to start for a good while it will eventually crank.
not real concerned about this one...
3. i failed inspection i hoped a cheap fix would do it. i got some of that "guaranteed to pass" stuff... FAILED with even higher numbers, NOx
i plan on getting a new catalytic converter.
so, opinions on if this should be the fix, or should i check other things?
i passed last year with all numbers a fair amount below the max rating. this year after i replaced all ignition parts it fails with numbers over double the max allowed. seems weird to me.
4. another intermittent problem... but happens more often than not if i floor it...
when im really getting on the gas the car doesnt seem to want to go over 5000-5500 rpms... it sort of hangs there and struggles to go any higher. there was once i punched it it 1st, when it got to 5000 it hung up, then the car started jerking like it was trying to die...
im going to throw in my noob opinions here...
i dont remember this happening before i changed the distributor. is it possible i did a shitty job on setting timing? would that cause this?
does code 16 include low fuel pressure? maybe its not getting enough fuel at higher rpms? also ive read running lean causes high NOx ie. failed inspection. theyre all connected! CONSPIRACY!
ive given you all alot to thing about
thanks in advance for your input
it could all boil down to a few simple over looked pieces of equipment
dirty injectors
nasty battery connections/grounds
fuel filter
if it isnt getting proper voltage motor can run like crap/not start properly
clogged filter/nasty injectors can run the motor short of fuel and starve it
today the car would not start at all... i tried for 2 hrs.
i bought the relay. no go. maybe fuel pump?
although, with fuel pumps ive noticed that when theyre starting to crap out, you can tell by the car having to crank alot longer when starting. or takes longer to build up pressure from a cold start.
this isnt the case with me. it either starts immediately and runs perfectly fine or wont start period.
im hoping someone else has had a similar problem and can help me out.
tomorrow ill be looking into the fuel pump
My roommate had a similar problem on one of his wagons, we tore through it one day putting a si trans in, noticed only 1 or 2 grounds were on, and very shitty at that, fixed them and put the other ones on and no more charging or intermittent non-start problems. Another wagon of his had the power feed from the alternator spliced into, had bad charging/starting issues also.
ok sweet thanks guys. ill check grounding and make sure the fuel pump is getting power. because i hear the relay click but dont hear the hum of the pump. if so... obviously fuel pump.
hopefully thats the case. i hate trying to figure out wiring.
its raining otherwise id be on it now.
replaced fuel pump... NO! DOESNT WORK! WHY!
all signs pointed to fuel pump but no... still doesnt work.
i checked voltage at fuel pump connector... got power. checked resistance on the pump side wiring. seemed ok i guess... lol i dont understand my meter so well... id say theres definitely a closed circuit though, because i did get some reading... i unhooked the fuel line before the fuel filter to see if i was getting fuel there... no. replaced fuel pump. checked everything again. still nothing. WTF!
i may have done something wrong here but... after i got the old fuel pump out i just hooked it directly to the battery to see if it did anything. when i did it just sparked and popped and then... nothing. can you not just hook it directly to 12v? or maybe because there was no fuel to pump? wtf idk
im sitting here patiently waiting... pressing f5... lol
srsly this is my daily driver and im royally stumped. i really need to get this fixed today so i can get to work tomorrow.
how big a hazard do you think it would be if i cut an access hole for the fuel pump with a dremel with the tank still in...? lol
but seriously im thinking about doing it. i really dont want to drain the tank, drop it, unhook all the lines, drop the exhaust... fuck... i just did it yesterday
you mentioned checking grounds. you mean like main grounds on the engine?
im trying to find where the fuel pump grounds to but i dont see it. either way i still have continuity
update...
i dont know if anyone is actually paying attention to this... but
the old pump works... i tried it again straight to the battery and it does its thing.
where do the harnesses running under the carpet ground to?
something else weird. i check voltage from connector with it unplugged from the pump. i get power. i check it with it plugged in. i get nothing.
whats up with that?
i tried the fuel guage side of the plug. i get power either way.
wire run directly from battery to fuel pump positive. pump comes on. rules out ground.
made a new bridge from relay to the positive on the pump. pump does not come on. so its not that wire.
made new bridge from positive on battery to relay. pump does not come on. its not this one either
while checking continuity i found no resistance between the wires that are supposed to connect.
but checking continuity between all connectors i still got some reading between all of them. not as strong but i dont think theres supposed to be any at all. makes me think theyve all melted together somewhere or maybe been pinned up against some metal and shorted out... idk
seems like it would be more obvious if it was shorting out. id have blown fuses right??
im almost to the point of saying fuck it and running a wire and switch straight from the battery to the pump. this is re-goddamn-diculous. so much time spent on this
i still have no replies!
not even... duuude... that sucks...
BAM! YOURE THE WAGON GOD! HOOK A BROTHA UP WITH YOUR GENIUS!
Rereading thru the whole thread has me just plain confused. Earlier symptoms seem to point to a bad ground connection, or high resistance somewhere.
One thing comes to mind: awhile back I was talking to B18C5-EH2 about a similar intermittent problem with my red RT. He suggested checking the ignition switch pigtail (the electrical part of the ignition switch). Worn contacts there could cause your symptom.. What made me think so was your saying that you had power until you connected the load...classic bad connection/high resistance behavior.
you can tap the pump - and add/splice into it and run it anywhere you want
if your dropping the voltage at the pump with it plugged in then its popping the relay, thats screams short in the line
wasnt long before it was dark after i got home from work and it started sprinking outside.
its really frustrating trying to sort through 2 inch thick wads of taped wires to follow the one im looking for.
i cut off most of the rest of the diagram because it is HUGE!!!!
this thing is also very confusing to me haha...
but what are the above things highlighted in the pic?
That's the ignition switch. You don't need to untape the harness to trace the wire. Trust your meter. Test that yellow/ black for continuity/resistance. You should have less than 1 ohm, or very close to what your meter reads if you just touch the leads together.
I, for one, doubt that you have a problem with the wiring to the pump. Back away and look at the big picture, try to look for a common denominator in all this from the beginning.
Try this: Take off the steering column jackets to expose the switch. Try cranking it while pulling up (toward the key) on the pigtail. Try wiggling the key, maybe.
so on connectors to relay,
blk/yel = power running to relay
yel/blk = power from relay to pump
blk/yel to ground = 12v
yel/blk to ground = 9ish v
i have a shitty analog meter and it only has settings for 10, 250 and 500 dcv. 250 and 500 are useless to me
so its hard to see if youre getting 12 volts. i guess i overlooked this before because it was so close to the end of range for 10v
all other connections from ignition to ground, fuse box to ground, all that is 12v too
so it looks like power is being lost at the relay
i already tried a new one though... and returned it.
the car has 2 main relays in it. i found another one unhooked stuffed under the dash. both give the same results.
and both click
oh and yes i did try what you suggested. no resistance between relay and fuel pump. i checked all connections on fuse box. found one corroded and cleaned it. and tried cranking while fiddling with the pigtail.
on the connector that goes from fuse box to ignition there are a couple tiny little holes in the wire. almost like a chew mark. but it still has a good connection.
i just ran a jumper wire between blk/yel and yel/blk
pump turns on, car starts. no engine codes either...
now usually when you turn the key to on, the pump is supposed to turn on for a few secs to pressurize the system then turn off right?
because it doesnt this way... i may leave it like this.
ah no power going to blu/wht according to the diagram its supposed to be the power that engages the relay. then another wire yel/wht runs to it to but goes through a resistor? im guessing thats what squiggly lines are on here. lol this may be the reason for partial engagement of the relay?
ok... now looking at the diagram it shows the blu/wht wire going to a connector that just loops from the fuse box back into the fuse box... why? and i dont see anything like that on the box
there is power coming from the ignition switch.
in my manual it gives diagrams for all connectors having to do with the fuel system except this one... c502
so i have no idea how many wires are actually on that connector
eh ok lol
maybe thats not it. i put a jumper between blk/yel and blu/wht and the car cranks in the on position. lol oops... doesnt start either
this wire never gets any power though... not while cranking either.
ok im fuggin stumped again. back to my earlier plan. im soldering the contacts for blk/yel yel/blk together from inside the relay.
ive got 2... if i deicide i want to figure it out again i can just switch them
hahaha nice. i hate half assing shit like this because somewhere down the line im going to need to deal with something centered around this and totally forget what i did with the relay.
check battery terminals for resistance..maybe you have a wire touching the body ground. having parts burning out is definitely a grounding issues, better take case of it boss before you set your whole car on fire.
Comments
next im trying compressed air. if that doesnt work... im thinking im gonna get some kinda high pressure water sprayer in there and drown em out!!!
pictures man...
:shock:
i got alot of weird looks from coworkers... i work at HP, the air compressors arent usually used on cars there.
1. i keep having problems starting my car.
every once in a while it will just crank but not start. usually after a few tries it will start. but while the car is running i constantly get an error code 16 which is fuel injection system.
Im thinking main relay. but why am i still getting the code after its running and starts fine? my thinking is that if the relay is working and the car is running fine there wouldnt be a code until there is a problem.
Yesterday the car wouldnt start so i checked the codes. i got 1 and 14. is this because the car thought it was started after i cranked it??
o2 sensor and IACV. after it finally fired up these codes went away and i just have 16.
anyway, anyone have input on whether they think this is it or if i should look elsewhere?
2. another thing... probably unrelated, and is a much less common problem for me.
sometimes i will turn the key and nothing will happen at all. doesnt turn over. sometimes a few tries works... or if i just keep the key turned to start for a good while it will eventually crank.
not real concerned about this one...
3. i failed inspection
i plan on getting a new catalytic converter.
so, opinions on if this should be the fix, or should i check other things?
i passed last year with all numbers a fair amount below the max rating. this year after i replaced all ignition parts it fails with numbers over double the max allowed. seems weird to me.
4. another intermittent problem... but happens more often than not if i floor it...
when im really getting on the gas the car doesnt seem to want to go over 5000-5500 rpms... it sort of hangs there and struggles to go any higher. there was once i punched it it 1st, when it got to 5000 it hung up, then the car started jerking like it was trying to die...
im going to throw in my noob opinions here...
i dont remember this happening before i changed the distributor. is it possible i did a shitty job on setting timing? would that cause this?
does code 16 include low fuel pressure? maybe its not getting enough fuel at higher rpms? also ive read running lean causes high NOx ie. failed inspection. theyre all connected! CONSPIRACY!
ive given you all alot to thing about
thanks in advance for your input
dirty injectors
nasty battery connections/grounds
fuel filter
if it isnt getting proper voltage motor can run like crap/not start properly
clogged filter/nasty injectors can run the motor short of fuel and starve it
i bought the relay. no go. maybe fuel pump?
although, with fuel pumps ive noticed that when theyre starting to crap out, you can tell by the car having to crank alot longer when starting. or takes longer to build up pressure from a cold start.
this isnt the case with me. it either starts immediately and runs perfectly fine or wont start period.
im hoping someone else has had a similar problem and can help me out.
tomorrow ill be looking into the fuel pump
hopefully thats the case. i hate trying to figure out wiring.
its raining otherwise id be on it now.
replaced fuel pump... NO! DOESNT WORK! WHY!
all signs pointed to fuel pump but no... still doesnt work.
i checked voltage at fuel pump connector... got power. checked resistance on the pump side wiring. seemed ok i guess... lol i dont understand my meter so well... id say theres definitely a closed circuit though, because i did get some reading... i unhooked the fuel line before the fuel filter to see if i was getting fuel there... no. replaced fuel pump. checked everything again. still nothing. WTF!
i may have done something wrong here but... after i got the old fuel pump out i just hooked it directly to the battery to see if it did anything. when i did it just sparked and popped and then... nothing. can you not just hook it directly to 12v? or maybe because there was no fuel to pump? wtf idk
im so annoyed at this.
please someone give me some help!
srsly this is my daily driver and im royally stumped. i really need to get this fixed today so i can get to work tomorrow.
how big a hazard do you think it would be if i cut an access hole for the fuel pump with a dremel with the tank still in...? lol
but seriously im thinking about doing it. i really dont want to drain the tank, drop it, unhook all the lines, drop the exhaust... fuck... i just did it yesterday
you mentioned checking grounds. you mean like main grounds on the engine?
im trying to find where the fuel pump grounds to but i dont see it. either way i still have continuity
i dont know if anyone is actually paying attention to this... but
the old pump works... i tried it again straight to the battery and it does its thing.
where do the harnesses running under the carpet ground to?
something else weird. i check voltage from connector with it unplugged from the pump. i get power. i check it with it plugged in. i get nothing.
whats up with that?
i tried the fuel guage side of the plug. i get power either way.
wire run directly from battery to fuel pump positive. pump comes on. rules out ground.
made a new bridge from relay to the positive on the pump. pump does not come on. so its not that wire.
made new bridge from positive on battery to relay. pump does not come on. its not this one either
while checking continuity i found no resistance between the wires that are supposed to connect.
but checking continuity between all connectors i still got some reading between all of them. not as strong but i dont think theres supposed to be any at all. makes me think theyve all melted together somewhere or maybe been pinned up against some metal and shorted out... idk
seems like it would be more obvious if it was shorting out. id have blown fuses right??
im almost to the point of saying fuck it and running a wire and switch straight from the battery to the pump. this is re-goddamn-diculous. so much time spent on this
i still have no replies!
not even... duuude... that sucks...
BAM! YOURE THE WAGON GOD! HOOK A BROTHA UP WITH YOUR GENIUS!
Rereading thru the whole thread has me just plain confused. Earlier symptoms seem to point to a bad ground connection, or high resistance somewhere.
One thing comes to mind: awhile back I was talking to B18C5-EH2 about a similar intermittent problem with my red RT. He suggested checking the ignition switch pigtail (the electrical part of the ignition switch). Worn contacts there could cause your symptom.. What made me think so was your saying that you had power until you connected the load...classic bad connection/high resistance behavior.
ok ill check that tomorrow.
THANKS!
if your dropping the voltage at the pump with it plugged in then its popping the relay, thats screams short in the line
wasnt long before it was dark after i got home from work and it started sprinking outside.
its really frustrating trying to sort through 2 inch thick wads of taped wires to follow the one im looking for.
i cut off most of the rest of the diagram because it is HUGE!!!!
this thing is also very confusing to me haha...
but what are the above things highlighted in the pic?
I, for one, doubt that you have a problem with the wiring to the pump. Back away and look at the big picture, try to look for a common denominator in all this from the beginning.
now its pointing back to relay...
so on connectors to relay,
blk/yel = power running to relay
yel/blk = power from relay to pump
blk/yel to ground = 12v
yel/blk to ground = 9ish v
i have a shitty analog meter and it only has settings for 10, 250 and 500 dcv. 250 and 500 are useless to me
so its hard to see if youre getting 12 volts. i guess i overlooked this before because it was so close to the end of range for 10v
all other connections from ignition to ground, fuse box to ground, all that is 12v too
so it looks like power is being lost at the relay
i already tried a new one though... and returned it.
the car has 2 main relays in it. i found another one unhooked stuffed under the dash. both give the same results.
and both click
on the connector that goes from fuse box to ignition there are a couple tiny little holes in the wire. almost like a chew mark. but it still has a good connection.
pump turns on, car starts. no engine codes either...
now usually when you turn the key to on, the pump is supposed to turn on for a few secs to pressurize the system then turn off right?
because it doesnt this way... i may leave it like this.
ok... now looking at the diagram it shows the blu/wht wire going to a connector that just loops from the fuse box back into the fuse box... why? and i dont see anything like that on the box
there is power coming from the ignition switch.
in my manual it gives diagrams for all connectors having to do with the fuel system except this one... c502
so i have no idea how many wires are actually on that connector
maybe thats not it. i put a jumper between blk/yel and blu/wht and the car cranks in the on position. lol oops... doesnt start either
this wire never gets any power though... not while cranking either.
no power going though the grn/blk wire...
ive got 2... if i deicide i want to figure it out again i can just switch them
The new term: You have now applied a presidential solution.