IMHO as I'm still yet to see these sort of power levels but that is entirely my plan.
The VC is something I just wouldn't take out if I'm going 4WD and higher power.
There is a comment throughout this thread that it is a weak point.
Forgive me if I missed it, but where are the threads of blown up VC's?
And if there is, then you know what? So what.
When upgrading parts to take more power you've got to rememember that the abuse they once took is now being passed onto something else in the chain.
Thinking of 2WD for a moment. If you are spinning up your tyres you fit sticker rubber. Now it grips like glue so you're burning up your clutch. So you replace that and you'll start putting excessive loading on the tranny and find yourself welding bracing on to it. Been there, done that.
If you want to mess with 4WD on the shuttle, personally I'd leave the VC in place. Consider it a life saver. If you make so much power that the VC cannot cope and you start spinning your front wheels then either calm the fuck down, or figure that it's saving your tranny from ripping the gears apart.
If you go soild shaft then you are feeding power to the rear at all times and loading up the transfer gears. With the VC it eliminates that unless there is a difference in wheel speed. There is no give in the system. If you spin up all four tyres which have a think about what that must be doing to the tranny!!
I don't think Honda thought that they'd make a cool spin on 4WD, I think they figured out a cheap way of making a part time 4WD system from what they had on the shelf. They never designed it to be all time engaged. Whilst lots of Honda stuff copes well beyond it's intended use I wouldn't put money on this being converted for 24/7 use.
IMHO Jaker is going to be the one who determines the break point of the L3 box as his is going to be under constant loading with all the power going to the rear.
The stupidly numerous internal workings of the 6spd worry me more than the transfer box but I then I aint going to remove the VC. Jaker doesn't have that luxury.
That said, there is the HR-V model over here on which the transfer box looks identical to the Shuttle so parts should be ok to source.
If you are making so much power that you are breaking traction with realtime 4WD then go look at something like a Racelogic Traction control system. I know of a guy here that runs it on a crx 2wd and it makes a big difference to his 1/4 times and also circuit work. More so that switching to sticker rubber (more than one driver has tried it). He's running 350bhp in balls out mode.
Again, that's my direction IF there are problems getting the power down with real time.
IMHO as I'm still yet to see these sort of power levels but that is entirely my plan.
The VC is something I just wouldn't take out if I'm going 4WD and higher power.
There is a comment throughout this thread that it is a weak point.
Forgive me if I missed it, but where are the threads of blown up VC's?
And if there is, then you know what? So what.
When upgrading parts to take more power you've got to rememember that the abuse they once took is now being passed onto something else in the chain.
Thinking of 2WD for a moment. If you are spinning up your tyres you fit sticker rubber. Now it grips like glue so you're burning up your clutch. So you replace that and you'll start putting excessive loading on the tranny and find yourself welding bracing on to it. Been there, done that.
If you want to mess with 4WD on the shuttle, personally I'd leave the VC in place. Consider it a life saver. If you make so much power that the VC cannot cope and you start spinning your front wheels then either calm the fuck down, or figure that it's saving your tranny from ripping the gears apart.
If you go soild shaft then you are feeding power to the rear at all times and loading up the transfer gears. With the VC it eliminates that unless there is a difference in wheel speed. There is no give in the system. If you spin up all four tyres which have a think about what that must be doing to the tranny!!
I don't think Honda thought that they'd make a cool spin on 4WD, I think they figured out a cheap way of making a part time 4WD system from what they had on the shelf. They never designed it to be all time engaged. Whilst lots of Honda stuff copes well beyond it's intended use I wouldn't put money on this being converted for 24/7 use.
IMHO Jaker is going to be the one who determines the break point of the L3 box as his is going to be under constant loading with all the power going to the rear.
The stupidly numerous internal workings of the 6spd worry me more than the transfer box but I then I aint going to remove the VC. Jaker doesn't have that luxury.
That said, there is the HR-V model over here on which the transfer box looks identical to the Shuttle so parts should be ok to source.
If you are making so much power that you are breaking traction with realtime 4WD then go look at something like a Racelogic Traction control system. I know of a guy here that runs it on a crx 2wd and it makes a big difference to his 1/4 times and also circuit work. More so that switching to sticker rubber (more than one driver has tried it). He's running 350bhp in balls out mode.
Again, that's my direction IF there are problems getting the power down with real time.
if you read closer you will see that most of us arent saying the VC is the weak point... we are saying the Bevel Gears in the "transfer case" are... and ive seen issues of them shattering with or without the VC
I am 100% with XSPower-Derek on this one... im not worried about my VC or the transmission im worried about the bevel gears shattering again... just saying .. but not really.... and once again.....VVVVVVVVVVVV
if you read closer you will see that most of us arent saying the VC is the weak point... we are saying the Bevel Gears in the "transfer case" are... and ive seen issues of them shattering with or without the VC
As a side note... went see if I could get my bevel gears CryO2 and he said they would definatly be able to he is just unsure if it would last like a rotor would bc it takes constant abuse as opposed to brakes taking abuse only everytime they are applied... but I personally think it wouldnt be a problem... any thoughts
As a side note... went see if I could get my bevel gears CryO2 and he said they would definatly be able to he is just unsure if it would last like a rotor would bc it takes constant abuse as opposed to brakes taking abuse only everytime they are applied... but I personally think it wouldnt be a problem... any thoughts
MFactory... Ive been considering it for a while now
i would not cryo your gears since it hardens them and makes them brittle which is what causes breakage. you want a material that is more ductile rather than hard.
i would not cryo your gears since it hardens them and makes them brittle which is what causes breakage. you want a material that is more ductile rather than hard.
what???? not to be a dick or come off the wrong way.... but the whole point the gears are breaking is the ends of the teeth get soft and slowly round off till it slips and strips some of the teeth... then more ... until you have a gear that looks like the one I posted originally. the whole point of CryO2 from what I understand is to make the gears resistant to wear. they are very lubricated all the time so ummm yeah
if you read closer you will see that most of us arent saying the VC is the weak point... we are saying the Bevel Gears in the "transfer case" are... and ive seen issues of them shattering with or without the VC
If by "most of us" you mean you then you have a point.
But the last 3 pages there is talk about the VC being a weak point, running solid axles, all sorts of bollox.
The VC is an integral part. The bevels are the weak point. I fully agree with you. But under which circumstances?
Have YOU personally seem them break (or just heard of it)? with a higher power loading than stock? verses shitty maintenance on a 20year old car. As you say, 4 of them just broke. Mileage? Daily use?
Perhaps the bevels on a 100K mile car should be rebuilt with new bearings?
Perhaps the casings should be inspected for wear. The tranny workshop manual I posted up has all sorts of run out measurements and things. I bet not one person has inspected their tranny before they find it has a (more serious) problem...
You yourself say that you are looking forward to trying without a VC. Is that in 2WD trim or using the RT rear end (which is a magnetic lock up so also not stressing the drivetrain constantly).
My comments stand about constant loading. It's your funeral if you remove the VC or equivilent.
I wonder about better oiling for the bevel area. It's tacked onto the side of the box. Perhaps with higher power we should be running oil spray and a pump to the bevels rather than relying on the stock internal tranny pump. As far as I can see it's doesn't reach them. I assume they just sit in their own puddle of oil from the main box supply.
I need to get a good look at this on the spare box TBH.
Anyone thought about testing oil temps in the bevel area?
if you read closer you will see that most of us arent saying the VC is the weak point... we are saying the Bevel Gears in the "transfer case" are... and ive seen issues of them shattering with or without the VC
If by "most of us" you mean you then you have a point.
But the last 3 pages there is talk about the VC being a weak point, running solid axles, all sorts of bollox.
The VC is an integral part. The bevels are the weak point. I fully agree with you. But under which circumstances?
Have YOU personally seem them break (or just heard of it)? with a higher power loading than stock? verses shitty maintenance on a 20year old car. As you say, 4 of them just broke. Mileage? Daily use?
Perhaps the bevels on a 100K mile car should be rebuilt with new bearings?
Perhaps the casings should be inspected for wear. The tranny workshop manual I posted up has all sorts of run out measurements and things. I bet not one person has inspected their tranny before they find it has a (more serious) problem...
You yourself say that you are looking forward to trying without a VC. Is that in 2WD trim or using the RT rear end (which is a magnetic lock up so also not stressing the drivetrain constantly).
My comments stand about constant loading. It's your funeral if you remove the VC or equivilent.
I wonder about better oiling for the bevel area. It's tacked onto the side of the box. Perhaps with higher power we should be running oil spray and a pump to the bevels rather than relying on the stock internal tranny pump. As far as I can see it's doesn't reach them. I assume they just sit in their own puddle of oil from the main box supply.
I need to get a good look at this on the spare box TBH.
Anyone thought about testing oil temps in the bevel area?
Wait wait wait... first of all there is no VC in the FWD... second the thread which was started by me who had a brand new bevel set bearings and all broke it. you cannot blame bad mantanance on it.. third the bevel gears are laying in a pool of oil all the time and are being splash by the gears spinning. there is no pump.. fourth I dont know where u got the idea in your head that "WE" yes we said that the VC is the weak part of the drive train..... what we were talking about were ways to take some of the stress on the bevel gears. i will admit the vc is probly not the straongest part of the drive line but it is not the weakest. i have sean a couple problems with them... yes first had. but i have seen more problems with bevel gears then anything on this drive system..
if you read closer you will see that most of us arent saying the VC is the weak point... we are saying the Bevel Gears in the "transfer case" are... and ive seen issues of them shattering with or without the VC
If by "most of us" you mean you then you have a point.
But the last 3 pages there is talk about the VC being a weak point, running solid axles, all sorts of bollox.
The VC is an integral part. The bevels are the weak point. I fully agree with you. But under which circumstances?
Have YOU personally seem them break (or just heard of it)? with a higher power loading than stock? verses shitty maintenance on a 20year old car. As you say, 4 of them just broke. Mileage? Daily use?
Perhaps the bevels on a 100K mile car should be rebuilt with new bearings?
Perhaps the casings should be inspected for wear. The tranny workshop manual I posted up has all sorts of run out measurements and things. I bet not one person has inspected their tranny before they find it has a (more serious) problem...
You yourself say that you are looking forward to trying without a VC. Is that in 2WD trim or using the RT rear end (which is a magnetic lock up so also not stressing the drivetrain constantly).
My comments stand about constant loading. It's your funeral if you remove the VC or equivilent.
I wonder about better oiling for the bevel area. It's tacked onto the side of the box. Perhaps with higher power we should be running oil spray and a pump to the bevels rather than relying on the stock internal tranny pump. As far as I can see it's doesn't reach them. I assume they just sit in their own puddle of oil from the main box supply.
I need to get a good look at this on the spare box TBH.
Anyone thought about testing oil temps in the bevel area?
seen two happen first hand, one stock, one on a boosted car... the gears in my Stock Wago were toast when i bought the car... the list goes on...
I will be going for a soild shaft, with LSD in the rear end (front wheels will still be driven though)... and yes i know this is gonna be VERY hard on the trans/transfer case/rear end... thats why im planning on being able to disengage the rear driveline via a pushbutton in the cab
what???? not to be a dick or come off the wrong way.... but the whole point the gears are breaking is the ends of the teeth get soft and slowly round off till it slips and strips some of the teeth... then more ... until you have a gear that looks like the one I posted originally. the whole point of CryO2 from what I understand is to make the gears resistant to wear. they are very lubricated all the time so ummm yeah[/quote]
i was wrong since cryo2 doesnt add any hardness to the steel used for gears. i work alot with stainless steels and when they are subjected to extreme cold temperatures they tend to crack more often.
There is no pump inside the transmission. The oiling is purely by bath/splash from the gears spinning.
third the bevel gears are laying in a pool of oil all the time and are being splash by the gears spinning. there is no pump..
I'll be honest. I've never yet been inside a D series tranny. B series, no sweat. They have oil pumps and I'm making the assumption that Honda thought of it before the B. Perhaps they didn't, in which case my bad.
Wait wait wait... first of all there is no VC in the FWD...
duh... but this is 4WD talk yeah ?? :?
second the thread which was started by me who had a brand new bevel set bearings and all broke it. you cannot blame bad mantanance on it..
No, but you can guess what I'm thinking next can't you.
A brand new set of bevels break just like that? hmm ?
No offence intended. We all make mistakes. Mine worse one related to cars cost me the best part of $2000 but that's another story.
You tested the run out when you fitted them, aligned correctly, and so on ?
So then why did they fail ?
fourth I dont know where u got the idea in your head that "WE" yes we said that the VC is the weak part of the drive train.....
Please read back. I said that there was talk that the VC is the weak part. That is clearly stated in the past 3 pages by one person and hinted / suggested at by others.
what we were talking about were ways to take some of the stress on the bevel gears. i will admit the vc is probly not the straongest part of the drive line but it is not the weakest.[/quote
Well let me tell you. One way to do the complete opposite of relieving stress on the bevels is to remove the bloody thing !! and that has been discussed.
Derek, call it the life saver switch.
[quote:10kst2yy]
i have sean a couple problems with them... yes first had. but i have seen more problems with bevel gears then anything on this drive system..
[/quote:10kst2yy]
Honestly, I look forward to having problems. I want to find the weak points and work around it. I aint spent this much money to not have problems with stock bits
I've gone for a XTD clutch becasue I expect it to be shite and slip. Because it's cheap and easy to replace. Becasue it's easier to replace than a VC or diff. Becasue I know it's the weakest link.
I've got a beefy ACT waiting in the wings, see how the XTD destroys itself first.
I've burnt out a stock clutch with a ZC swap and constant launching.
Which B series transmission is it that you claim has an oil pump? Certainly not any of the FWD ones, and I'm 99% sure the CRV one does not either. There are clutch packs and pumps in the rear differential on the CRV though. Is that what you're referring to?
Quote:
second the thread which was started by me who had a brand new bevel set bearings and all broke it. you cannot blame bad mantanance on it..
No, but you can guess what I'm thinking next can't you.
A brand new set of bevels break just like that? hmm ?
No offence intended. We all make mistakes. Mine worse one related to cars cost me the best part of $2000 but that's another story.
You tested the run out when you fitted them, aligned correctly, and so on ?
So then why did they fail ?
they sheered just like my last ones... im guesing partially due to power and partially due to the failing clutch... Trust me.. they were installed correctly... the casing was marked from the previous uninstall...... as I said before i have had quite a bit of experiance when it comes to gears and fitment.
Quote:
fourth I dont know where u got the idea in your head that "WE" yes we said that the VC is the weak part of the drive train.....
Please read back. I said that there was talk that the VC is the weak part. That is clearly stated in the past 3 pages by one person and hinted / suggested at by others.
I think you read into that a little to much.. It was only said that it was part of the weak spots on the driveline..the main concern was the bevel gears and how to take the pressure off of them... the truth is it is probly the next thing to go right after the bevel gears fail... The clutch BTW should in no way break before the bevel gears.. unless you are riding it like a dolphin and you are trying to run an under powed clutch with way more then its rated for... my IS300 with a 2jz swap ran a for a long time with a clutch that was rated way higher then the 680whp I had
It sounds like someone did away with the viscous coupling between the front and rear differential, would guess this would create some really unusual "stress" on the drivetrain since the two differentials would be always engaged....at least from the little I have read.
so guys, what i can learn from this post and from what i've read before:
i thing the tranfert teeth broken here are due to the lack of VC.
i explain :
Jaker and some french writers on an other forum has found that to have a quick VC lock between the front and the rear, honda's designer did differents reductions ratio between front diff and rear diff, to prehold the VC (to have the quick lock!)...
but the amount of that difference is very low, and that's why you kill some transfer gears : the difference grinds the teeth, but not broke it one time!
=====> that we can learn is that the weakest point of our RT trans are the transfer gears.
now we can discuss of my point of view : you want a permanent AWD : just have the same gear ratio between the front diff and the rear diff (one front wheel revolution = one rear wheel revolution)!!
so guys, what i can learn from this post and from what i've read before:
i thing the tranfert teeth broken here are due to the lack of VC.
i explain :
Jaker and some french writers on an other forum has found that to have a quick VC lock between the front and the rear, honda's designer did differents reductions ratio between front diff and rear diff, to prehold the VC (to have the quick lock!)...
but the amount of that difference is very low, and that's why you kill some transfer gears : the difference grinds the teeth, but not broke it one time!
=====> that we can learn is that the weakest point of our RT trans are the transfer gears.
now we can discuss of my point of view : you want a permanent AWD : just have the same gear ratio between the front diff and the rear diff (one front wheel revolution = one rear wheel revolution)!!
while this was all some very broken English... I kinda got what you were trying to say and I think its a good point
none of us were really considering the gearing difference too... when we lock in the rear end its permanently putting that pressure from the gearing difference on the bevel gears, and that pressure will continue to build up until:
A: the rear Wheels spin
B: the Teeth strip off the gears
considering that the VC locks only under wheel spin condition, the ratio difference isn't a problem on a stock tranny
but this difference will kill the bevels on a solid shaft...
the solution is to make the ratio equal overall
1 ratio between the rear diff and the front diff
2.529 is the rear diff ratio
4.25 is the front diff ratio
we just have to determine the bevel ratio, and place a reinforced pair by the way
the cost to have custom bevel gears made is what would be the killer
but for a true full time AWD setup thats prolly what would have to happen, even then you have weak spots with the trans case though (see Jakers thread for refrence)
I know when I get my setup done Ill more than likely just manually disengage the rear wheels (via an electric solenoid, with a push button in the cabin) and only engage them when I really feel like Im going to need it, or want to show off...
Comments
The VC is something I just wouldn't take out if I'm going 4WD and higher power.
There is a comment throughout this thread that it is a weak point.
Forgive me if I missed it, but where are the threads of blown up VC's?
And if there is, then you know what? So what.
When upgrading parts to take more power you've got to rememember that the abuse they once took is now being passed onto something else in the chain.
Thinking of 2WD for a moment. If you are spinning up your tyres you fit sticker rubber. Now it grips like glue so you're burning up your clutch. So you replace that and you'll start putting excessive loading on the tranny and find yourself welding bracing on to it. Been there, done that.
If you want to mess with 4WD on the shuttle, personally I'd leave the VC in place. Consider it a life saver. If you make so much power that the VC cannot cope and you start spinning your front wheels then either calm the fuck down, or figure that it's saving your tranny from ripping the gears apart.
If you go soild shaft then you are feeding power to the rear at all times and loading up the transfer gears. With the VC it eliminates that unless there is a difference in wheel speed. There is no give in the system. If you spin up all four tyres which have a think about what that must be doing to the tranny!!
I don't think Honda thought that they'd make a cool spin on 4WD, I think they figured out a cheap way of making a part time 4WD system from what they had on the shelf. They never designed it to be all time engaged. Whilst lots of Honda stuff copes well beyond it's intended use I wouldn't put money on this being converted for 24/7 use.
IMHO Jaker is going to be the one who determines the break point of the L3 box as his is going to be under constant loading with all the power going to the rear.
The stupidly numerous internal workings of the 6spd worry me more than the transfer box but I then I aint going to remove the VC. Jaker doesn't have that luxury.
That said, there is the HR-V model over here on which the transfer box looks identical to the Shuttle so parts should be ok to source.
If you are making so much power that you are breaking traction with realtime 4WD then go look at something like a Racelogic Traction control system. I know of a guy here that runs it on a crx 2wd and it makes a big difference to his 1/4 times and also circuit work. More so that switching to sticker rubber (more than one driver has tried it). He's running 350bhp in balls out mode.
Again, that's my direction IF there are problems getting the power down with real time.
if you read closer you will see that most of us arent saying the VC is the weak point... we are saying the Bevel Gears in the "transfer case" are... and ive seen issues of them shattering with or without the VC
if you read closer you will see that most of us arent saying the VC is the weak point... we are saying the Bevel Gears in the "transfer case" are... and ive seen issues of them shattering with or without the VC
MFactory... Ive been considering it for a while now
what???? not to be a dick or come off the wrong way.... but the whole point the gears are breaking is the ends of the teeth get soft and slowly round off till it slips and strips some of the teeth... then more ... until you have a gear that looks like the one I posted originally. the whole point of CryO2 from what I understand is to make the gears resistant to wear. they are very lubricated all the time so ummm yeah
If by "most of us" you mean you then you have a point.
But the last 3 pages there is talk about the VC being a weak point, running solid axles, all sorts of bollox.
The VC is an integral part. The bevels are the weak point. I fully agree with you. But under which circumstances?
Have YOU personally seem them break (or just heard of it)? with a higher power loading than stock? verses shitty maintenance on a 20year old car. As you say, 4 of them just broke. Mileage? Daily use?
Perhaps the bevels on a 100K mile car should be rebuilt with new bearings?
Perhaps the casings should be inspected for wear. The tranny workshop manual I posted up has all sorts of run out measurements and things. I bet not one person has inspected their tranny before they find it has a (more serious) problem...
You yourself say that you are looking forward to trying without a VC. Is that in 2WD trim or using the RT rear end (which is a magnetic lock up so also not stressing the drivetrain constantly).
My comments stand about constant loading. It's your funeral if you remove the VC or equivilent.
I wonder about better oiling for the bevel area. It's tacked onto the side of the box. Perhaps with higher power we should be running oil spray and a pump to the bevels rather than relying on the stock internal tranny pump. As far as I can see it's doesn't reach them. I assume they just sit in their own puddle of oil from the main box supply.
I need to get a good look at this on the spare box TBH.
Anyone thought about testing oil temps in the bevel area?
Wait wait wait... first of all there is no VC in the FWD... second the thread which was started by me who had a brand new bevel set bearings and all broke it. you cannot blame bad mantanance on it.. third the bevel gears are laying in a pool of oil all the time and are being splash by the gears spinning. there is no pump.. fourth I dont know where u got the idea in your head that "WE" yes we said that the VC is the weak part of the drive train..... what we were talking about were ways to take some of the stress on the bevel gears. i will admit the vc is probly not the straongest part of the drive line but it is not the weakest. i have sean a couple problems with them... yes first had. but i have seen more problems with bevel gears then anything on this drive system..
seen two happen first hand, one stock, one on a boosted car... the gears in my Stock Wago were toast when i bought the car... the list goes on...
I will be going for a soild shaft, with LSD in the rear end (front wheels will still be driven though)... and yes i know this is gonna be VERY hard on the trans/transfer case/rear end... thats why im planning on being able to disengage the rear driveline via a pushbutton in the cab
i was wrong since cryo2 doesnt add any hardness to the steel used for gears. i work alot with stainless steels and when they are subjected to extreme cold temperatures they tend to crack more often.
glad you informed me.
I'll be honest. I've never yet been inside a D series tranny. B series, no sweat. They have oil pumps and I'm making the assumption that Honda thought of it before the B. Perhaps they didn't, in which case my bad.
duh... but this is 4WD talk yeah ?? :?
No, but you can guess what I'm thinking next can't you.
A brand new set of bevels break just like that? hmm ?
No offence intended. We all make mistakes. Mine worse one related to cars cost me the best part of $2000 but that's another story.
You tested the run out when you fitted them, aligned correctly, and so on ?
So then why did they fail ?
Please read back. I said that there was talk that the VC is the weak part. That is clearly stated in the past 3 pages by one person and hinted / suggested at by others.
[/quote:10kst2yy]
Honestly, I look forward to having problems. I want to find the weak points and work around it. I aint spent this much money to not have problems with stock bits
I've gone for a XTD clutch becasue I expect it to be shite and slip. Because it's cheap and easy to replace. Becasue it's easier to replace than a VC or diff. Becasue I know it's the weakest link.
I've got a beefy ACT waiting in the wings, see how the XTD destroys itself first.
I've burnt out a stock clutch with a ZC swap and constant launching.
More to come in the next couple of days
second the thread which was started by me who had a brand new bevel set bearings and all broke it. you cannot blame bad mantanance on it..
No, but you can guess what I'm thinking next can't you.
A brand new set of bevels break just like that? hmm ?
No offence intended. We all make mistakes. Mine worse one related to cars cost me the best part of $2000 but that's another story.
You tested the run out when you fitted them, aligned correctly, and so on ?
So then why did they fail ?
they sheered just like my last ones... im guesing partially due to power and partially due to the failing clutch... Trust me.. they were installed correctly... the casing was marked from the previous uninstall...... as I said before i have had quite a bit of experiance when it comes to gears and fitment.
Quote:
fourth I dont know where u got the idea in your head that "WE" yes we said that the VC is the weak part of the drive train.....
Please read back. I said that there was talk that the VC is the weak part. That is clearly stated in the past 3 pages by one person and hinted / suggested at by others.
I think you read into that a little to much.. It was only said that it was part of the weak spots on the driveline..the main concern was the bevel gears and how to take the pressure off of them... the truth is it is probly the next thing to go right after the bevel gears fail... The clutch BTW should in no way break before the bevel gears.. unless you are riding it like a dolphin and you are trying to run an under powed clutch with way more then its rated for... my IS300 with a 2jz swap ran a for a long time with a clutch that was rated way higher then the 680whp I had
so guys, what i can learn from this post and from what i've read before:
i thing the tranfert teeth broken here are due to the lack of VC.
i explain :
Jaker and some french writers on an other forum has found that to have a quick VC lock between the front and the rear, honda's designer did differents reductions ratio between front diff and rear diff, to prehold the VC (to have the quick lock!)...
but the amount of that difference is very low, and that's why you kill some transfer gears : the difference grinds the teeth, but not broke it one time!
=====> that we can learn is that the weakest point of our RT trans are the transfer gears.
now we can discuss of my point of view : you want a permanent AWD : just have the same gear ratio between the front diff and the rear diff (one front wheel revolution = one rear wheel revolution)!!
while this was all some very broken English... I kinda got what you were trying to say and I think its a good point
none of us were really considering the gearing difference too... when we lock in the rear end its permanently putting that pressure from the gearing difference on the bevel gears, and that pressure will continue to build up until:
A: the rear Wheels spin
B: the Teeth strip off the gears
but this difference will kill the bevels on a solid shaft...
the solution is to make the ratio equal overall
1 ratio between the rear diff and the front diff
2.529 is the rear diff ratio
4.25 is the front diff ratio
we just have to determine the bevel ratio, and place a reinforced pair by the way
the cost to have custom bevel gears made is what would be the killer
but for a true full time AWD setup thats prolly what would have to happen, even then you have weak spots with the trans case though (see Jakers thread for refrence)
I know when I get my setup done Ill more than likely just manually disengage the rear wheels (via an electric solenoid, with a push button in the cabin) and only engage them when I really feel like Im going to need it, or want to show off...
I know the difference is very small... but dont you think it would build up pressure on the gears over time?
maybe im wrong here but the way im seeing it unless there is:
A: wheelspin
or
B: the rear is disengaged
then more and more pressure will build up on the gears until they eventually shear?
p.s. this is assuming the VC has been replaced with a solid shaft