which head would you go with or stay with original setup?

949949 Senior Wagonist
well after all the work done to the wagon the car still wont work right.
turbo D16a6.
supertech valves, springs, and retainers.


after a week of a new tune for some reason two valve broke off. just took off the head and found major damage to the head and pistons. it might need to be torn down again to be repaired.

i dont think i can salvage the head. so should i get another A6 or something else.
if its something else what would be pretty much a bolt on with little mods on the D16?

any suggestions?
and what would need to be done to make your suggestion work?
«1

Comments

  • HaydzHaydz Moderator
    Go back to the engine builders and ask why two valves 'broke'?
  • 949949 Senior Wagonist
    ok, i thought it was the tune but the tuner said it isnt.

    im not sure where to go with this. i was thinking i may need to bite the bullet and pay for the fix.
  • the a6 block w/ a vtec head is the best single cam combo setup you can get... definetly go with a vtec upgrade if you can afford to do so - w/ boost I would also recm. a stock head gasket w/ arp head studs.
  • 949949 Senior Wagonist
    which vtec head would be the easiest to make work?
  • realtimefunrealtimefun Senior Wagonist
    i am runnin my RT with a6/z6 the z6 head went right on with head studs and a y8 intake and converted to obd1 it been going strong fro over 3 years and i love it !!! i rebuilt the motor wile it was out to.
  • 949949 Senior Wagonist
    saw this thread.

    http://crx.honda-perf.org/articles/more ... inime.html


    they say the D16y8 from 1996-00 Civic Ex is a direct bolt on.

    how much stuff from my current setup is resuable?
    since i got the skunk2 intake manifold and fuel rails all the supporting mods, will this Y8 still be bolt on?

    is there any difference in wiring witht his new vtec head?
  • 949 wrote:
    saw this thread.

    http://crx.honda-perf.org/articles/more ... inime.html


    they say the D16y8 from 1996-00 Civic Ex is a direct bolt on.

    how much stuff from my current setup is resuable?
    since i got the skunk2 intake manifold and fuel rails all the supporting mods, will this Y8 still be bolt on?

    is there any difference in wiring witht his new vtec head?

    all of the intake will work on any sohc head, the y8 has the best stock intake (arguably as good as skunkz on boost from my experience), you will have to pickup a new vtec dizzy and vtec solenoid which will need to be wired in, only a few wires if I remember correctly. if you are not running a programmable ecu then you'll also need a p28 or some other vtec controller.
  • turbo_tegturbo_teg Council Member
    z6 head all the way!
  • HaydzHaydz Moderator
    Regardless of any of this, why are you not taking this up with either the engine builder or tuner?

    Do you have a dyno sheet from when it was tuned showing things like A/F ratios?
  • 949949 Senior Wagonist
    yes i have the dyno sheet.

    so far he is a very well known tuner, and once he says its not the tune then no one will believe otherwise. i am not a tuner and not a mechanic so there is backing there.

    he says that its a mechanical failure.

    the cylinder far to the passenger side is the culprit. it looks like the bottom round part of the pistons on the intake side broke off and bounced around in the cylinder. it also looks like fragments got into the other cylinders too. there are scuff and small nicks on the cylinder walls. im not too sure how bad it is. i dont have the trained eye to determine it.
  • pics will be useful to analyze your engine trouble. maybe some of us here encountered your case sometime ago and hope they will chime in.



    wagon...............................4ever...................
  • 949949 Senior Wagonist
    this is what i saw when i first removed the head from the block.
    BrokenValvesinCyl4c.jpg

    do i need all four new pistons?
    BottomEndwBrokenValvesinCyl4.jpg

    BrokenValvesinCyl4a.jpg

    Piston4and3.jpg

    here are the piston parts and the spark plug that was damaged.
    SparkPlugandValves.jpg

    im not sure if the head is still reusable.
    Valves4a.jpg


    im not sure if can just hone the cylinder walls or do i need to remill the whole thing.

    D16A6.
    turbo'd
    eagle rods
    cp pistons
    sleeved
    supertech:
    valve
    springs
    retainers

    head is ported and polished

    quick history.
    drove for about less then 2k miles with brand new internals.
    tuned again because of bucking sensation from first tune,
    about 1 week on there with 2nd tune with less then 50 miles.
    wasnt driving fast either. only about 40mph. then engine drops dead.
  • it looks like the valves hit the pistons and it broke off. i used to owned a da teg with loose t-belt (it was this way when i got it) and rev it hard and valve and pistons contact happened. i just dont know if your t-belt got loosen up and did this number. its almost sure that its not tune coz it doesnt look like detonation. i would say its mechanical. was the t-belt loose when you took off the head? was the timing off?



    wagon......................4ever.....................
  • 949949 Senior Wagonist
    the timing belt was good.
  • looks like the head is totaled. if you're thinking of going vtec and if what is better? z6 or y8? go for the bigger combustion chamber since you're forced induced. i dont remember which one has that bigger combustion chamber. thats all i can think off right now.

    got to go. off to work.



    wagon...........................................4ever............................
  • i would stick to basics at this point...

    checking oil pump, bearings, balancer
    all that jazz...
    :mrgreen:
  • 949949 Senior Wagonist
    turbo_teg wrote:
    z6 head all the way!


    why do you recommend the z6 over the y8?
  • 949949 Senior Wagonist
    949 wrote:
    saw this thread.

    http://crx.honda-perf.org/articles/more ... inime.html


    they say the D16y8 from 1996-00 Civic Ex is a direct bolt on.

    how much stuff from my current setup is resuable?
    since i got the skunk2 intake manifold and fuel rails all the supporting mods, will this Y8 still be bolt on?

    is there any difference in wiring witht his new vtec head?

    all of the intake will work on any sohc head, the y8 has the best stock intake (arguably as good as skunkz on boost from my experience), you will have to pickup a new vtec dizzy and vtec solenoid which will need to be wired in, only a few wires if I remember correctly. if you are not running a programmable ecu then you'll also need a p28 or some other vtec controller.
    do you have another link that shows how to do everything with the installation?
  • 949 wrote:
    do you have another link that shows how to do everything with the installation?
    http://crxcommunity.com/viewtopic.php?t=2558
  • 949949 Senior Wagonist
    someone is offering me a z6.

    i is it really hard to get it to work?
  • this is one of the easiest non vtec block to vtec head swaps out there. You have been told before use the a6 block (replace pistons with virtas 75mm very cheap and worth the money as these are the best low buck pistons for turbo a6/z6) and use the z6 head since you are turbo charged I believe the y8 will give you a higher comp which you dont want. I would change out rods to i-beams (this will require slight mod to block which you NEW ENGINE BUILDER should already know how to do.) Please do not use the engine builder who built your last engine. I believe that he is probably responsible for you paper weight. You will also need a p28 and a OBD0 to OBD1 conversion harness from rywire.com. You will also need a 4 wire O2 sensor. Follow the directions on the conversion kit from rywire its very simple. Also please install an adjustable cam gear. Using the Z6 Timing belt. Turn you boost as far down as possible when you drive the car to the tuner. Let him know what mods you have and that you are running a vtec head on non vtec block. He will need to be carefull when playing with cam timming as you only so much room to play. Usually the magic number is 4.5 degree.

    Have fun in the turbod wagon. They truely are a blast to drive. I love when these punk kids pull up to me and start honking there horns to race and the light turns green and I am gone they never knew what hit em. All they heard was my exhaust and pssssst as I pulled away.
  • btw those cylinder walls look like they have way over 3k miles on them. Just saying.
  • from d16 calculator

    D16A6 block
    D16Z6 head
    vitara piston
    D16A6 headgasket

    will have a CR of 7.36

    or just play around with the d16 calculator if you would like to increase the CR. just my 0.02c



    wagon......4ever.................
  • You could buy your Vitaras and rods from FJT over on D-series.org. He has some special rods that move the pistons a little further up in the bore to give a little more compression than 7.5:1. They're not any more expensive than regular forged rods. In fact I think he has some complete shortblock build kits (bearings, seals, etc...) as well.
  • 949949 Senior Wagonist
    Jaker wrote:
    You could buy your Vitaras and rods from FJT over on D-series.org. He has some special rods that move the pistons a little further up in the bore to give a little more compression than 7.5:1. They're not any more expensive than regular forged rods. In fact I think he has some complete shortblock build kits (bearings, seals, etc...) as well.

    i actually want lower compression, not higher.
  • turbo_tegturbo_teg Council Member
    949 wrote:
    turbo_teg wrote:
    z6 head all the way!


    why do you recommend the z6 over the y8?

    because witht he y8 head your gunna need an adjustable cam gear just to get it truely to TDC and if i remember correctly it raises your comp ratio quite a bit more.

    if u can pic up a complete z6 go for it and throw some vittaras in it my buddy ran a vittara build with an sc61 ran 12's and had a very basic set-up.
  • HaydzHaydz Moderator
    949 wrote:
    Jaker wrote:
    You could buy your Vitaras and rods from FJT over on D-series.org. He has some special rods that move the pistons a little further up in the bore to give a little more compression than 7.5:1. They're not any more expensive than regular forged rods. In fact I think he has some complete shortblock build kits (bearings, seals, etc...) as well.

    i actually want lower compression, not higher.

    You want somewhere in the middle, say 8.5:1. If your tuner can't tune it to work then fire them and find someone who knows what they are doing. You should be even able to run higher compression than that if your tuner knows what they are doing.
  • 949949 Senior Wagonist
    i got someone who will sell me a z6 head. he says its clean. what ever that means. im not sure what i should be looking at to see if it is good.

    since this might work. is there a link that will show me the how to do and what is needed to be moded and replaced to make this work?

    also whats a good price for a clean z6 head?
    he says its from a 98 ex civic.
  • 949 wrote:
    Jaker wrote:
    You could buy your Vitaras and rods from FJT over on D-series.org. He has some special rods that move the pistons a little further up in the bore to give a little more compression than 7.5:1. They're not any more expensive than regular forged rods. In fact I think he has some complete shortblock build kits (bearings, seals, etc...) as well.

    i actually want lower compression, not higher.

    What I'm saying is that with the Vitara pistons, you'll have about 7.5:1 compression using OEM length D16 rods. That's too low. If you go with the longer FJT rods, your compression will be back up to a reasonable level for boost (still lower than OEM).
    949 wrote:
    i got someone who will sell me a z6 head. he says its from a 98 ex civic.

    Figure out a way to get him to get his story straight. The 98 EX had a Y8 head stock from the factory (96-2000 Civics). The Z6 head was only available on the 92-95 Civics.
  • 949949 Senior Wagonist
    just picked up a used Y8.

    i hope its in good condition as i dont know how to really look at it for any damages like warpage or missing small parts.
Sign In or Register to comment.