B Vs ZC for the Newbie
FSC4wd
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Hi Mr Newbie here. I Just baught a 89 RT4wd with a high mile engine and new or rebuilt tranny (the owner says new, but after driving the wagon home and finding the newly replaced valve cover gasket out of place and oil all over, I don't know if I trust "NEW").
Anyways, sometime in the near future I'm gonna want to upgrade the engine. So now I need your guidance as to what engine to start drooling over. I definitly want to go as simple as possible. The two engines that seem to drop in are the 1B16A and the ZC (right?). I know nothing about the differences of these two engines other than they seem to be the most popular swaps on this board.
What are the differences? The 1B16A is DOHC V-Tec @ 160Hp, the ZC is DOHC (V-tec?) @ 130Hp. Wouldn't you want the B?
Also could you run LSD with the 1B16A? And could I use my stock tranny? I'm open to ideas and knowledge.
Mainly I want more overall power so I can cram 4 fools and our snowboards in an keep a cool cruising speed. Oooh, another question, has anybody put a cruise control unit in?
Anyways, sometime in the near future I'm gonna want to upgrade the engine. So now I need your guidance as to what engine to start drooling over. I definitly want to go as simple as possible. The two engines that seem to drop in are the 1B16A and the ZC (right?). I know nothing about the differences of these two engines other than they seem to be the most popular swaps on this board.
What are the differences? The 1B16A is DOHC V-Tec @ 160Hp, the ZC is DOHC (V-tec?) @ 130Hp. Wouldn't you want the B?
Also could you run LSD with the 1B16A? And could I use my stock tranny? I'm open to ideas and knowledge.
Mainly I want more overall power so I can cram 4 fools and our snowboards in an keep a cool cruising speed. Oooh, another question, has anybody put a cruise control unit in?
Comments
your best bet is go d series route say a d16z6 that will give you vtec. Or you can just go d16a and boost the shit out of it. I've seen some HMT kits available for pretty darn cheap.
that's just my .02
you wont be able to run the stock tranny with the b16, but neither with the ZC, the gears are set up a bit different.
and the biggest thing, would be the price. a b16, complete swap, would go for about 1600, not including labor, replacing parts, etc. the ZC complete swap goes for about 800, not uncluding the above mentioned. so it depends on your budget
akiraboy had a nice site that has everythying for your swap ideas. it was on the links forum on the homepage.
but most of the time when people swap in a different engine, especially the ZC and b16, they switch to FWD. so i'm not really sure about the lsd, gonna have to wait for someone else more knowledgeable for that.
there was a post on the old board about the wagon tranny being a really good one. not sure really, but here is the link http://p196.ezboard.com/fhondacivicwagonfrm7.showMessage?topicID=195.topic
thats why I rather dislike people that swap a motor and switch it to FWD if they wnated to do that they could of bought the FWD version,just go with a boosted D engine.
good luck with your engine choice man
Check http://www.hondacivicwagon.com/board/viewtopic.php?t=13 for pics... and ask me any q's you want.
B series has fabrication and wiring involved... but you could swap in say a B16a with a B20 tranny, but again it would need alot of fab...
Front L.S.D for the RT4WD isn't commonly available but it seems that the JDM 'INTRAC' RT4WDs have oe LSD up front.. might be able to order one in or something.
LSD in the front was all a was hoping for. I'll start looking.
One, has anybody done a swap here in Cali? What is the protcol for dealing with the DMV and SMOG? Two, and I know some of you will cringe, I want to run with regular gas. With these two new questions, any engine ideas?
For the DOHC ZC, there are three, the 84-87 'brown top' ZC, the 88-91 'black top' ZC and the 92-95 OBD1 'black top'.. only the 88+ would fit in as direct bolt in.. there is also the D16A8 and 9 which are extremely similar.
For my 4-2-1 exhust manifold in my RT4WD, you know how the stock manifolds are two-piece 4-2-1 setup on the shoc zc over here? I used the top half from a dohc zc and the bottom half from a sohc zc... it clears the oil pan and transfer case, fits perfectly together, it just collects from 2-1 earlier than the dohc version...
But i run it on 98 RON octane, so i guess thats near enough or the same as your premium?
I can get hold of ELF racing petrol so im going to give that a try soon...
Also, that dashboard mod on honda-tech.com should be on this site. Nice idea!
For a B swap to be legal...
1. It has to be usdm or have a usdm equivalent. 1st gen B16 is out. First B16 available for the US was the 94 Del Sol.
2. It has to be fully converted to a usdm spec for that year. So for that engine to be legal in your car, it has to have EVERYTHING from a 94-95 del sol. That means converting to obd-1 and using all matching emissions and electrical components.
Keeping this in mind, a B18a1 and components from a 90-91 teg would go in pretty easily since the ecu is still obd-0.
Besides, I think the B16 is very overrated. You have to rev the snot out of it to get anywhere. For a daily driver, I would be looking for something with a little more torque, like a B18b or even a B18c1.
Of course, this is all assuming a B20 tranny can hook up to the 4wd, if it can't, you're back to the 2wd vs 4wd problem again. I'm wondering if even the standard B swap mount kits would be compatible.
Did you consider the 92+ sohc vtecs? Wouldn't they be compatible with your existing 4wd tranny? They are roughly the same hp as the ZC but can be run legally. They are also cheap, plentiful and enjoy wide aftermarket support.
Theres also the sohc zc non vtec that makes 118hp...that's +10hp and 100% straight bolt in(no wiring, mounts kits etc). Its also Cali legal.
I mean like go high compression, vtec & look stock on the outside. You will have to run better gas though.
If I were him I'd start with a sohc zc for $400-500. Use a D16y8 intake manifold and the standard I/H/E. That should land him somewhere between a dohc zc and B16.
This choice allows him to swap out for a much lower mileage engine, see a nice bump in power, maintain emissions legality, run regular 87 octane and install easier than anything else out there.
I also like the SOHC ZC idea. Cheap and simple. What are your thoughts on the D16y8?
The D16y8 could be installed, and yes, obd-1 conversion and D16z6 ecu (p28) could run everything just fine and dandy....BUT....for a D16y8 to be 100% legal in Cali, you'd have to convert to obd-2 and run a 96-00 Civic EX ecu. Whatever engine you use has to be controlled by all the emissions equipment that engine came with from the oem. This includes the ecu.
My personal feelings: Obd-0 is perfectly fine if you can get away with it. Obd-1 is a good upgrade. Obd-2 is just one step to far for no benefits over obd-1.
There are two articles I think will help you...I don't have the links on this computer so you'll have to find them yourself.
1. "Project Wheeze" from Homemadeturbo.com. A great write up for building a sohc non vtec D-series engine. Impressive results for a naturally aspirated setup.
2. There is how-to-pass Cali BAR/REF article on the Norcal CRX groups page.