Link for 2wd to AWD conversion

Guys,

A friend of mine has to civic wagons. One is 2wd and the other is awd. The awd is shot, looks like somebody took a baseball bat to it, but the awd system and motor are all good. He is going to sell me both of them for $1000. Both are 88-91, didn't really check the years exactly. But they aren't the older style (yuck. he he) I'm wanting to swap all the awd stuff over to the 2wd chassis cause it will be easier than trying to straighten out the body and stuff. Thought about trying to swap doors and stuff, but it's also been like backed into a pole, so it's pretty much not repairable. Curious to see if anybody has any write ups or howto's on converting 2wd to awd. I tried searching, but came up with a bunch of stuff that wasn't what I was looking for. Any help would be greatly appreciated.

Comments

  • skinnyskinny Senior Wagonist
    I havent seen a 2wd in person so I cant say if its a direct bolt in. I do know that the Tranny mount for the 2wd and the 4WD is different. You will need to drill out the spot welds and transfer the mount. You may also have to transfer the rear suspension. Post up some pics if you can. I wonder what a baseball batted wagon looks like. I dont care how bad it is if the frame is straight you can repair it :lol:
  • White&NerdyWhite&Nerdy Senior Wagonist
    Some non-wagons have been converted to RT4WD. I remember specifically seeing a CRX with it somewhere on the internet. Obviously there's a lot more customization in a build like that since it wasn't meant to go into a CRX. But you may be able to find the info you're looking for by reading between the lines. No need to shorten the driveshaft, for instance.

    I think the rear suspension is the same between FWD and RT4WD. Wagon rear suspension in general is different than other Civics/CRXs, but I think all wagons share the same thing.
  • wagodizzlewagodizzle Council Member and EDM expert
    I think the rear suspension is the same between FWD and RT4WD. Wagon rear suspension in general is different than other Civics/CRXs, but I think all wagons share the same thing.
    the RT springs i believe are a few mm taller, but thats basically it. the rear cross member is completely the same.
  • JakerJaker familEE
    We are assuming (hopefully correctly) that both vehicles have manual transmissions. As skinny mentioned, the transmission mount in the engine compartment that is spot welded to the unibody needs to be swapped.

    You also need to:

    Change the shifter
    Swap the rear crossmember
    Attach the center bearing support for the driveshaft/viscous coupling that is welded to the unibody
    Swap rear trailing arms
    Figure out a way to attach the 2 front bolts that hold the front mount for the rear diff

    That's all thats coming to mind right now as I sit here typing. I'm more or less doing this exact thing (except for the center driveshaft bearing).
  • SiWagonSiWagon Council Member
    skinny wrote:
    I do know that the Tranny mount for the 2wd and the 4WD is different. You will need to drill out the spot welds and transfer the mount.

    No need to weld .The only difference is the mount it self.

    THe 4WD CRX is on this site.

    Read more & slower.One of the earlier wagoneers did the swap.1 of the probs was a few of the bolt holes weren't tapped,you'll need to cut(I meant seal) a hole for the shifter&maybe open up a hole for the cable shifter in the firewall.

    Other things u may want to swap over:BIgger frt.brakes,the better engine & ECU,hood insulator,maybe the spare,maybe the instrument pod(higher tach rpm?),drum brakes(for spares) & of course the 4WD plagueon the strg.whl.

    For other things that u may need to swap over are listed here:
    viewtopic.php?f=7&t=595
  • JakerJaker familEE
    SiWagon wrote:
    No need to weld .The only difference is the mount it self.

    What do you mean exactly? The difference is the part that is spot welded to the unibody, as well as the mount with the rubber in it that bolts to the transmission.

    This piece has the bolt holes about 1" higher on the 4WD chassis than the 2WD one.

    355.jpg

    2WD:

    353.jpg

    4WD:

    352.jpg
  • stampernstampern Senior Wagonist
    Jaker, why aren't you doing the center driveshaft support? And are the mounts locations on the transmission different?? I'm assuming that it's not possible to just swap the mount from one tranny to the other?
  • 2wd mounts bolt to the top of the 2wd trans, 4wd mounts bolt to the side of the 4wd trans. You have to go through the passneger side fender well to get to the lower bolts of the 4wd trans mount. The bolts face out towards the tire.
  • stampernstampern Senior Wagonist
    Ok, sounds like I've got a few weeks of good work in front of me. I'll try and take lots of pictures and stuff so we can get a good howto on the site. I'm determined to do this cause I've wanted an awd wagon for years. he he I'm still keeping my options open on fixing the awd chassis. Gonna check it out before I do anything else just incase it is repairable or I can swap some stuff off the 2wd one and make it work. I'll keep you guys updated. Thanks for all the help.
  • HaydzHaydz Moderator
    wagodizzle wrote:
    the rear cross member is completely the same.

    LOL not by a long shot...
  • JakerJaker familEE
    stampern wrote:
    Jaker, why aren't you doing the center driveshaft support?

    My driveshaft will be one piece. The output of the transmission will only be going to 1 pair of wheels.
  • stampernstampern Senior Wagonist
    Ok, makes sense. I think the hardest parts for me are going to be the mount and the driveshaft parts that need to be welded in.
  • curtcurt Wagonist
    http://yota1man.tripod.com/vtecwagon/
    here is a good link for the conversion
  • stampernstampern Senior Wagonist
    Ya, I saw that page. Wish he had better pictures. I'm going to attempt to take bigger and more pictures. Thanks for all the advice guys. BTW, does the awd wagon have rear discs?? Mine is an 89.
  • curtcurt Wagonist
    not stock
  • wagodizzlewagodizzle Council Member and EDM expert
    Haydz wrote:
    wagodizzle wrote:
    the rear cross member is completely the same.

    LOL not by a long shot...
    whats different. i know mine has the pre-fabbed placement for a rear diff.
  • HaydzHaydz Moderator
    Whut. OK something odd was just noticed. I had a look at pics of the USDM rear end both RT4WD and FWD look like my Civic Pro. INTRAC was completely different. It was more solid but there was less material - it went around the diff instead of under it as well.
  • wagodizzlewagodizzle Council Member and EDM expert
    post a pic of the INTRAC!
    i know the USDM RT4wd and DX had the same rear member
  • JakerJaker familEE
    wagodizzle wrote:
    i know the USDM RT4wd and DX had the same rear member

    They're not the same. The mounting points for the diff rear stabilizer mount are not there on the 2WD crossmember. The 4WD has some threaded bolt holes for the screws that hold the mount. Overall, their shape is the same though, and I can see that if you weren't specifically looking for all this, you could have missed it.

    The 2WD chassis also does not have the threaded holes for the rear diff front mount/mini crossmember. The 4WD has extra metal in the stampings/layers of steel back there, as well as the threaded inserts for the mount.

    I'm going through all this right now to mount up the rear diff. I've dissected a section of unibody that came from a 4WD chassis to see exactly how all this goes together, and to make sure I make my chassis strong enough to handle the setup that I have planned.
  • skinnyskinny Senior Wagonist
    Okay newb q. whats the diff between the rear member and the rear sub frame? Im assuming the sub frame is what the diff sits in and thats the main difference between the rear end of a 4wd and a 2wd?
  • skinnyskinny Senior Wagonist
    Thank you for the pics. helps in the understanding of the way it works.
  • HaydzHaydz Moderator
    evol911 wrote:
    I think I've seen a 2wd rear subframe that was tubing instead of stamped metal but I can't find a picture of it.

    That's the way the INTRAC one was - like tubing instead of squashed metal.
  • Haydz wrote:
    evol911 wrote:
    I think I've seen a 2wd rear subframe that was tubing instead of stamped metal but I can't find a picture of it.

    That's the way the INTRAC one was - like tubing instead of squashed metal.

    Maybe I'm mistaking it for my CRV's subframe, I can't quite remember but I swear I've seen the tubing style on a 2wd.
  • HaydzHaydz Moderator
    RTi Intrac we need pics of your rear end.

















    :oops:
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