spark plug specs
wagodizzle
Council Member and EDM expert
wazzup..
im looking up colder spark plugs for my car under this website:
http://www.ngk.com/search_char.asp
however i do not know what thread size, etc. spark plugs that fit our wagons. does anybody here know?
i'm looking for a #9 temp plug (coldest application). or should i go with #7? not sure how cold i need to get. this is for my supercharger application.
i was looking at these plugs, but they dont have any specs on them...
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/products/s ... p?mode=nml
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDeta ... 60&PTSet=A
so thats why i went to the first link. and thus the question of what i need
im looking up colder spark plugs for my car under this website:
http://www.ngk.com/search_char.asp
however i do not know what thread size, etc. spark plugs that fit our wagons. does anybody here know?
i'm looking for a #9 temp plug (coldest application). or should i go with #7? not sure how cold i need to get. this is for my supercharger application.
i was looking at these plugs, but they dont have any specs on them...
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/products/s ... p?mode=nml
http://www.partsamerica.com/ProductDeta ... 60&PTSet=A
so thats why i went to the first link. and thus the question of what i need
Comments
anyways. so back to my first question haha. i know the socket size is 5/8 inch.. but the rest, dunno. all i know is i want #9 heat temp and .035 gap.
is this cold enough?? my current ones which failed were #6.
if i select the .032 cap size, i can get #9 heat range plugs. is that gap too small? stock gap is .044, and JRSC recommends .035-.036 gap range
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/docs/tech/partnumberkey.pdf
BCPR6E-11 is what is recommended for stock so you would want a BCPR8(?)E-8 or 9, the heat range is trial and error because I don't know what JRSC recommends.
As you can see the first numeral in the part number is the heat range and the numeral after the dash is the gap size. I f the store doesn't stock the gap size you need, get one thats close and gap it yourself, just don't get a plug that is the opposite spectrum and try to gap it down. You will have an U-shaped electrode LOL
Also read through this:
http://www.ngksparkplugs.com/tech_support/spark_plugs/index.asp?mode=nml
What is your timing set at? What octane are you using? How much boost are you running (6 psi?)? What did the fouled plugs look like?
I would definitely start with 7's and gap them as JR suggests and go from there.
-93 octane fuel
-running 6 psi max boost
-fouled plugs looked like this:
what do you mean by this? mainly by "not be nearly as good".. nearly as good as what? im not too concerned about gas mileage to be honest (otherwise i wouldnt have boosted). im just trying to get this thing running smoothly.
this is kinda sad, but i dont have really the money to try messing around with different plugs, haha... thats why im trying to see which one i need straight up. so you're suggesting the 7?
What do you mean the timing is "fully retarded"? You are set at 0* BTDC (AKA TDC)? I hope not, that is WAY to much timing to have been taken out. Running the car with that much pulled would surely result in some extremely hot EGT's (melting cats and such). Do you have an EGT gauge? Are you running a cat or a test pipe? Those pics aren't super clear to me but it definitely looks like they are quite "sootey" and there may also have been a bit of detonation going on. Like I said, the best way to read a plug is to put new ones in and read them after a few minutes of hard driving.
Proper driveability, max power and smooth partial throttle is all about proper combustion. If you go too low on your gap and are getting a plug that is to "cold" then all that really means is it will NOT warm up enough and will not produce enough heat between firing. When that happens you will get buildup, weak combustion (bad flame front) and they will likely eventually foul out. So long as your heat range is right for conditions (when boosting only 6 pounds max you should just try one step colder as JR suggests) your gap can come down a bit from stock.
To mention something here, not to sound like an asshole, but this is from experience I promise: don't modify a car unless you can pay for the consequences. That means being able to put the time/effort into fixing it and getting things right AND being able to put the money into the machine. If you cannot afford a $12 set of plugs (when I was running nitrous, drag racing, boosted...etc I would buy 40-50 plugs at a time and change them before every race and at every oil change) than I would assume that you cannot afford to stay boosted. If you wouldn't mind summarizing a bit of your problems it would be more helpful, I have a feeling you have other issues atop your fouled plugs.
uhhhh im not trying to hide anything :?
i have put my distributor to the fully retarded setting, as in moved it all the way forward. when its not, it detonates all the time.
when i got this JRSC i was under the impression (by JR themselves) that it will run normal under stock conditions, so thats why me, being a dumbass, installed it in the middle of my school quarter when im not working or making money thinking it would work lol... and it almost is, except for some small detonation going on which i linked to the wrong plugs. the ones in those pictures are about a year old. i pulled them right before i installed the JRSC and they looked completely normal, according to the spark plug coloration chart. they are V-Power plugs. two weeks after this install, they look like that. definitely carbon built up, yellow glazing, some oil deposits. its kind hard to take photos of spark plugs because they are quite small....
i dunno what an EGT gauge is. i have a newer cat.
anyways, i ordered some plugs last night, i shall see what happens after i get them
they are NGK Racing R5672-8 plugs.
thanks for your help man.
With timing set normally how does the car idle? Any vacuum leaks? I ask again, triple check, any vacuum leaks? I haven't much experience with the JRSC systems, but I've enough experience as a mechanic to know that there is something else going on here BESIDES your plugs.
If you ARE going to install those expensive plugs you just purchase (instead of using NGK v powers @ $12/set) then please remove them after a few mins of hard driving, take some pics and post them up so we can help see whats going on. Good luck and keep posting, we can figure this out. I know how it is being in a hard place with an unreliable car.
the plugs i got were only $1.94 a piece
as far as vacuum leaks, i checked them over and over again, and cannot find anything.
i didnt ever really check idle with timing at normal timing (assuming by normal timing you mean dizzy set in the middle).
it idles at about 1800 rpms, then drops then goes back to 1800-ish then drops, every other second or so.. but only after driving. if i let the car warm up without driving it will end up idling at about 1100 rpms pretty normal. right now the idle screw is set all the way in.
there is a subharness that im sure i need, which according to JR is supposed to compensate for idle and high speed driving. i need to call them when i have time. is it the weekend yet!?
anyways, i will definitely post pics soon as the plugs arrive in the next couple days.
thanks again for your help!
p.s. im not driving my car right now, no need to hurt it more.
after driving around a bit, they are now cover in a powdery yellow coating.
I am not sure why you are fully retarded. My advise would be to get some plugs, get a timing light and set your timing to about 10-12* BTDC and go from there. There shouldn't be much of a reason your car will "ping" at idle: you are on an otherwise stock motor correct? Please for the sake of your new cat, stop driving the car fully retarded your EGT's are likely way way up.
FYI EGT = exhaust gas temperature; when you retard so much your flame front travels out your exhaust valves and heats things up (valves, cat, o2 sensor) to a dangerous level pretty easily. That smell before was probably your cat cooking itself to death.
the car doesnt ping at idle. it only pings when im accelerating. its still with the tank of octane booster BS, as i havent driven much really at all to empty it out.
the reason timing is advanced fully retarded is because if it isnt not the car pings at a ridiculous amount.
new plugs should fix that, hopefully, so i can advance my timing a bit. either way im not driving the car haha.
I'm new to this site (sorry if I screw these posts) but have had some experience with the JRSC on my 91 RT 4wd. I'll tell you more about that in your other thread.
As far as your spark plugs go, the other replies are correct. When I was having problems with knocking, I tried #7 heat range NGK plugs gapped to 0.032 but didn't notice much difference because I think I had a bigger fuel problem. In 95 degree humid weather I ran a tank of race gas (octane 113?) and still had knocking on full throttle.
I settled on NGK #6 iridium plugs 0.032 gap but had the benefit of an Accel CD ignition. Regular stock NGK plugs BCPR6 (?) gave the same results but have to be regapped every 4 to 6 months to maintain that gap.
I agree with noahrexion in that the knocking (and idle problem) is more than just spark plugs.
The compensation harness mentioned in the installation instructions is only a resistor in line to change the voltage sent to the CPU from the TA sensor but it does make a difference.
I think JR uses it to richen the A/F mixture in general.
Its been more than a few months since I have worked on my car. I will send more info on the other thread but I have to warn you that my busy schedule usually delays my internet activities.
installed them, drove hard, and heard some good pinging. took a plug out to check it out, and it had some black on there (detonation).
:x
so now what
-could it still be fuel? i didnt think it would detonate this much just because of fuel (and i have 93 octane in there)
-ignition timing isnt changing anything, i tried it out.
-if there is a vacuum leak, i dunno where to check.
and my idle is still retarded
i really think its vacuum leak now, but where and how to check? what are places to check?
nothing changed :roll:
intake gasket ok ?
and i was afraid this' gonna be a
multipage thread
: )
Wagodizzle, I feel bad for you but you are definitely not going about this in the right way. Black plugs generally do not mean "detonation". Perhaps you could show some pics of your plugs; although I have a good feeling of what they will look like since your timing is STILL :roll: fully retarded. Carbon, unburnt fuel, retarded ign. timing will definitely produce some black plugs that will eventually fail. Checking just 1 plug is about 3 times as ineffective as checking all 4
93 octane is all you need, no octane booster... nothing
I have no idea what you mean when you say that you "tried out" ignition timing. As I said before you are probably causing damage driving the car fully retarded (especially if you are making boost). You can take that to mean whatever you want, but trying to diagnose what is going on with your car totally backwards from what others here AND Jackson Racing recommend is probably not the best way to tackle this.
Your idle is retarded? Did you mean to say your ignition timing? I just assumed that your motor was stock before this; did you ever remove the t belt? If you did, please for the love of god ensure that your mechanical timing is CORRECT before you fiddle with ignition timing. For now, do not listen to the above advice of running 1 tooth advanced and retarded your ignition. Start out how the kit was designed for, STOCK and use the directions you have from Jackson.
The moment you "boosted" the car your entire vacuum system became twice as important when it comes to leaks as it was when you were N/A. Do you have a bottle of soapy water? Do you have a vacuum tester/gauge? Do you have a boost leak tester? Many times leaks will not develop until there is positive pressure within the system. Keep in mind this MAY NOT apply to you and you may be buttoned up totally fine; however, if it is then this will need to be remedied as well as the other issues you are having. Autozone will rent you a vacuum gauge and you can, obviously, make up your own spray bottle of soapy water (just like looking for a leak in a tire). Both of these things will help you find a leak (at least one that is not boost dependent). Any and EVERYthing that is attached to intake side of your head needs to be checked. Anywhere there is a gasket, a hose connection, clamp, nipple....etc
If you have any sort of directions, or links to the D16 and the JRSC please post them up or PM them to me so I can be a bit more helpful.
PS- I just reread this and this post definitely has a snotty tone to it, my apologies, that is not how I intended it.
you can use a can shaving foam ...
you dont need it anyway
yeah yeah yeah, i know
one of my worst jokes
gl
Sure made me laugh
it also stays
instead of dripping away
: )
ok so when i meant tried out different ign timing i meant that i would set it to middle, drive the block, come back retard it some more, drive the block, etc till i was just back at fully retarded timing. i changed my own timing belt earlier last summer, so could it be i missed a tooth? it was running pretty good till now. jackson recommends setting timing at 10*
lol, when i meant idle is retarded i meant it is being gay :oops: lulz, like a retarded human being. anyways.. sorry about that haha.
i'll try the soapy water thing.
also i may add, i think my car is bring oil pretty good now because the dip stick was dry, so i put oil in and its dry again and my oil light came on when i took a hard corner.
honestly im on the verge of putting this car back to stock. if i didnt spend so much time and money already getting this thing to the place it is now... anyways.
haha yea if people would just read a little closer they would understand, i got it, retarded idle meaning gay or stupid or sick of it.
and that thing i said in my last post, i should have been more clearer than when you did your mpfi swap did ya mess with the timing belt side of things, and i could have added you may have advanced it then by mistake 1 tooth and it ran great after in NA form, so that my following statement about a timing gear and how it works would make more sence + the ecu thing 1.6 ecu running a 1.5 and such. wow i get more shit for giving advice than anyone i know, and it all boils down to people not reading, and filling in common sence and following a conversation.
i dont feel bad for you at all dizzle, in fact props to you! its not like you are killing a b18cR motor with boost. trust me i know how it is to be young and on a budget, and you seem to be doing something, testing, hmmm its not right and trying not to drive it hard but figuring it out as it goes. and guess what? you dont need to buy 40 spark plugs to play boost or nitrous, talk about waste of cash. just check the T-belt i have a feeling its advanced 1 tooth, the black on the plugs is unburned fuel, you are ok for fuel is what black means right now. and final statment, you are very smart for checking all the plugs, not being lazy will show you if you burst a head gasket, fry a piston, have a faulty injector and so on and so on.
i appreciate yours and everyone elses help with these issues.
i'll let you guys know what happens after the soap test/timing belt check.