x2 i agree, aeromotive makes a great one that ive been installing for a few years now, have had no issues with it, no leaks, and is really the way to go, also for some semi stand alone you can use the aem fic, (it is a piggy back) also has been working well for forced induction, it has a vtec function as well, do a search on the fic its a lot of bang for the buck! i have one personally they are great.
so, this is a bigger pain in the ass then i expected. long story short, i had to take the supercharger out 3 times, buy 2 fuses and get a new fuel rail from an EG.. *sigh*
anyways, three days later its running, but super rough. also throws an O2 sensor code. im pretty sure i just need my ignition timing set, its making an awfully loud pinging noise whenever i tap the gas. also need to get some better gas.
anyways... yeah. so i have yet to experience it, as its running really shitty but it sounds pretty nice to date haha.
so, anybody got any tips on what to do right now to get it running smoothly? its rough enough that i cant drive it. feels like its skipping hardcore, i know its most likely the ignition timing, which is currently set on the most retarded setting. throws a code 1 (O2 sensor).
im running stock injectors and stock fuel pump right now, also has 87 octane gas with some octane booster in it. JR under drive pulley, which i am switching back to my stock one as this one is rubbing on the timing belt cover.
there is still some pretty strong pinging noise when i really gun it, but overall not too bad.
mostly my problem is that its just skipping/jolting hardcore.
I know it's a stupid question and you've probably already checked everything, but... Is everything reconnected properly? All the plugs plugged back in securely? Everything you disconnected to install the SC reconnected? Is the SC itself hooked up right? Any air leaks that could cause the mixture to lean out? You're not an idiot - I'm sure you've already thought of this stuff - but I gotta ask.
all electrical was plugged correctly (only three plugs haha). vacuum lines were done according to pictures, i'm pretty sure i got those done right.. though anyone with a JRSC please post up pics of your setup!! i was not completely sure if everything was hosed correctly, though i assume it is.
First off, you should have better gas in it than 87 and I don't care about the octane booster at all (that's a debate worth a thread of it's own but I'll never bother with that crap as too many trusted tuners agree that it's better to just spend the money and run real octane rather that trying to make cheap gas something it isn't.) try to get 90+ in there as soon as possible. Welcome to the world of "Premium only", enjoy it. I don't think that that's going to fix your issues since what you're describing seems pretty severe but it's a step in the right direction.
Next step, what brand of spark plugs are you running, what heat range are they for and how old are they?
That "pinging" you're describing is bad. "Pinging", "knock", "pre-detonation", whatever is bad for your engine and you should keep driving to a minimum or none at all until you sort it out.There's a 85% chance that your timing is the culprit here and I'm not talking about your base timing. Do you have any sort of logging capabilities?
Your engine is seeing A LOT more air in different areas of your powerband that it's programmed to deal with with and if you aren't keeping the mixture happy (ie: adding more fuel at the same tie to accommodate) then you are introducing more air into the combustion chambers that fuel causing the motor to run lean. Lean = bad. Stock injectors and fuel pump weren't designed for these conditions that you've created with the JRSC by adding more air.
I typed this with a puppy in my lap and I'm not even sure if it makes sense...
All of my FI knowledge (what little I have) comes from my DSM and EVO background. which might suck for you for two reasons: I know that Mitsu's run Mass Air Flow Sensors (MAS/MAF) to meter the air ingested by the motor so the ECU knows how much fuel to add but I'm not sure about Hondas. I think they run of MAP sensors (Manifold Absolute Pressure) and I'm not too familiar with them. Also, I'm used to turbo, not superchargers... so if I'm way off, here then someone tell me to shut up.
Think of your combustion chambers like your favorite mixed drink, mine is Captain Morgan (air) and Sprite Zero (fuel).
Your car left the assembly line with the ECU programmed to add the proper amount of Sprite based on the metered amount of Captain entering your motor. While the ECU can add and pull Sprite based on the density and temperature of the Captain to a certain extent, you're now forcing more Captain in there that the ECU was ever ready for, resulting in a really bad tasting drink. What you need to do now (amongst other things) is to trick your ECU into pumping in more Sprite than normal however you feel comfortable...
I know rising rate FMU's were hot with Hondas back in the day, I'm pretty sure there are bigger and better things available now. I've always liked APEXi AFC's for their availability, cheap price (used) and essential ease of use once you're familiar with it's interface. In essence it is spliced in between the signal from the MAP going to the ECU and alters it so that you may trick the ECU into adding more or less fuel in ~200RPM (? - It's been a while since I've rocked one, beed ECU Flashing the EVO since I've owned it...) to compensate for the air that the ECU doesn't know how to handle.
here is my take on the situation, premium fuel is the only thing i ever use, ever! you dont save money by putting cheap gas in your ride, the higher the octane the more milage you will get. but thats just the fuel side of things. one thing thats different with a supercharger is there is not a intercooler. when you compress air it heats up and fast! right now you want the lowest boost pulley the kit comes with. if i read your post right your pulley is higher boost one? if thats the case you need some way to cool the charge, fuel does cool it down (octane) but you need a water injection kit. also the kit was made for z6 piston wich has a dish, and less compression. tuning you need it. you have little damage spots all in your motor every time you hear a ping. its still living but dont drive it any more! please! get the right parts in there, you got the fuel pump put it in, injectors well if they dont fit sell them go to the junk yard and pick up some turbo DSM injectors from an eclipse they are perfect and use the resistor box already installed with the mpfi swap. its been awhile but i think you just have to leave the spacers out of the fuel rail, they plug right in. AEM FIC, im telling you if you have a laptop you can tune the fic, your car will run like normal until the fic reads boost, then it kicks in by retarding spark and adding fuel. it has a internal 50 psig map sensor inside it and will read a uego or air fuel style wide band, also has input outputs for oem o2 sensors. after you complete the install you put in the value for your old injectors, then the new injectors, then the rpm limits and just like that it will create a base map to run the motor safely. again for spark value for retard per psig and there you have it. its not hard to install and its dirt cheap, ive found them for 250 bucks on the net. i used to use apexi products but they dont do spark! and cost the same, and dont data log, and no way to see o2, i could go on and on but you get it.
well i hope my post makes sence i can ramble on alot but i hope this helps
I don't know if this applies here but when I made my own turbokit I had to trick the MAP sensor by putting check valves before it. If I remeber correctly the vacuum line from the intake went to 2 T's and and then the MAP sensor. The check valves would let the boost out of the line when boosting *lol redundant* but would be closed when idling so the MAp read vacuum. It doesn't seem like it would work seeing how boost would get to the 2 check valves and the MAP sensor but maybe the boost out of the check valves created a vacuum at the MAP sensor?!?!
Now this schematic ain't exactly up to scale but damn it sure is purty!!
i know nothing on resizing these damn things so it wouldnt let me post just the pic.. the tune/install on my computer was done by a guy i work with he is somewhat of a honda tuning god... ill ask him when he gets back friday.
i know nothing on resizing these damn things so it wouldnt let me post just the pic.. the tune/install on my computer was done by a guy i work with he is somewhat of a honda tuning god... ill ask him when he gets back friday.
What are the back seats? Are they just reupholstered?
i know nothing on resizing these damn things so it wouldnt let me post just the pic.. the tune/install on my computer was done by a guy i work with he is somewhat of a honda tuning god... ill ask him when he gets back friday.
What are the back seats? Are they just reupholstered?
Please stay on topic, this thread isn't about back seats. :roll:
so stock and skywalker seemed to have covered everything i would have said. get the dsm injectors for sure and install that fuel pump. i still recommend the obd1 conversion and getting it tuned. to get passed the map when doing this get a 2 bar map sensor (stock motor lower boost) and wire it in. you can find them on ebay pretty cheap, i saw one a while back for $20. also, with your spark plugs make sure you gapped them correctly. the added air could be blowing out your spark. colder would be nice as well. and you got 93 back east don't you? that my friend is what you should be using.
DSM injectors don't fit the OEM Honda injector to manifold seals. The solution is quite simple actually. The diameter of a large Dremel sanding drum is pretty much perfect to seal to the injectors. Just sand out the seal (leave it in the manifold to hold it) to the diameter of the sanding drum and you've got the right size seal for your setup. There is probably a million threads over on Honda-Tech about this.
yeah i saw that man! thanks. i posted that reply before i checked that link lol. (also got the package from you)
little update, i go to install my fuel pump. i had to cut the strap clamps holder things because they were rusted solid. anyways, get everything down and out... and it turns out the fuel pump i have is literally almost half the size of my stock one :shock: also the electrical connectors are different. anyways, i ghetto rigged it either way to see if it would prime, and sure 'nuff it primed..
now, do you think it will be an issue? im thinking this fuel pump is from a 5th genner Civic...
wow look at that...pictures of MY wagon in his garage. LOL
ok...lets talk this out
By checking your member pages post I can see you have made the conversion to multi-point so that is done.
now adding the JRSC is a easy step as long as you remember a few important things....extra air needs extra fuel.
the stock injectors are 240cc rated which is fine for stock.
two ways to get more fuel....raise fuel pressure signifigantly during boost or increase injector size.
raising fuel pressure to compensate was the original method the supercharger used.
a seperate FMU mounted in the return line from the fuel rail and would raise the fuel pressure 8-10 psi for every pound of boost.
this puts a strain on the fuel pump so upgraded pump is required.
this is the simplest method of addressing the situation.
larger injector on the other hand do not require additional fuel pressure so there is no added strain on the pump.
however larger injectors inject addtional fuel during idle and cruising also so a method of "scaling down" the injector pulse is required with larger injectors...best is a ecu programmed for boost.
the ecu would then use the map sensor signal to determine how much air is going in and would control the injectors to keep the ratio right.
ok lets see your stuff...
it looks like in your picture above that your have an addtional unit in the retrun line....do you have any addtional information about it? what is its rate? any more pics?
the car will need premium gas from now on...octane booster isn't gonna help.
the O2 sensor code is probably because the air-fuel ratios are way off.
now on mine (pictured) I used a programmable ecu called ZDYNE along with DSM bluetop injectors. (450 cc)
I used a dremel just like in that link to make them fit...you don't need a different fuel rail.
BTW..notice I didn't mention a fuel pump upgrade because the original one is still there.
hey, i have a JRSC "auxiliary fuel pressure regulator" going from the return line.. i see you dont have that. is it not needed?
so if i upgrade my fuel pump, i wouldnt really need to upgrade injectors and the ECU? right now im trying my best to stay away from ECU upgrades, because of budget (or lack of..)
hey, i have a JRSC "auxiliary fuel pressure regulator" going from the return line.. i see you dont have that. is it not needed?
so if i upgrade my fuel pump, i wouldnt really need to upgrade injectors and the ECU? right now im trying my best to stay away from ECU upgrades, because of budget (or lack of..)
exactly.....if the added fuel is being supplied by the higher pressure of the "auxiliary fuel pressure regulator", then you do not need the larger injectors or the pcm to control them.
and it works the other way too...larger injectors and pcm do not require the higher fuel pressure from the "auxiliary fuel pressure regulator" and the upgraded fuel pump.
ok, that is out of the way.
do you have any pictures other than what you have already posted of the "auxiliary fuel pressure regulator"?
and please note, where the fuel lines go
the off center fuel fitting should be going to the fuelrail and the center one should be returning to the car to go back to the tank.
Where do you have the vacuum line on the "auxiliary fuel pressure regulator" attached?
ok so i got the Wlabro fuel pump in. car was running pretty good till i took it on the main road and it just shut down. there was still electrical current, but the fuel pump just stopped. F**K ME.
im guessing something got disconnected in the fuel tank. ef ef ef ef ef. it was such a pain in the arse too. whatever, im done with this crap for now. oh, also it was throwing a O2 code again.
but at least it was running better....? (was..)
anyways, to answer your question: i have the Auxiliary thing hooked up the the vacuum connecter next to the OEM fuel pressure reg. vacuum connection. oh, and i checked and rechecked to manke sure the center and off-center fittings were in their correct location. (which they are)
ignore that last post.. so i blew the Alt fuse... AGAIN. this was my first big problem in the beginning of the install... there is absolutely not enough space between the Alt insulator and the JRSC. why the hell not??! wasnt this shit made for this car?! blah...
anyways, it runs now though.. but idles very rough. i drops constantly from 1800 rpms down to almost 0 every other second. kinda like "vroooooom *drop* vroooooooom *drop*etc. and is squeaks like there is something that needs to be greased, and now a new issue is that there is a efkin loud sound like a French Horn blowing coming from the JRSC. wtf, did i get a faulty JRSC? are the bearings going bad on top of everything else?!
i swear i am never modding anything again as long as i live.
When I inquired about that JRSC, I was told it didn't have any original gaskets... is that true? You got this from WagonWheeler right? Maybe you have a bad vacuum/boost leak.
Comments
the JRSC is expected to arrive wednesday or thursday
anyways, three days later its running, but super rough. also throws an O2 sensor code. im pretty sure i just need my ignition timing set, its making an awfully loud pinging noise whenever i tap the gas. also need to get some better gas.
anyways... yeah. so i have yet to experience it, as its running really shitty but it sounds pretty nice to date haha.
already is :shock: :roll:
pics tomorrow, i promise...
im running stock injectors and stock fuel pump right now, also has 87 octane gas with some octane booster in it. JR under drive pulley, which i am switching back to my stock one as this one is rubbing on the timing belt cover.
there is still some pretty strong pinging noise when i really gun it, but overall not too bad.
mostly my problem is that its just skipping/jolting hardcore.
Next step, what brand of spark plugs are you running, what heat range are they for and how old are they?
That "pinging" you're describing is bad. "Pinging", "knock", "pre-detonation", whatever is bad for your engine and you should keep driving to a minimum or none at all until you sort it out.There's a 85% chance that your timing is the culprit here and I'm not talking about your base timing. Do you have any sort of logging capabilities?
Your engine is seeing A LOT more air in different areas of your powerband that it's programmed to deal with with and if you aren't keeping the mixture happy (ie: adding more fuel at the same tie to accommodate) then you are introducing more air into the combustion chambers that fuel causing the motor to run lean. Lean = bad. Stock injectors and fuel pump weren't designed for these conditions that you've created with the JRSC by adding more air.
I typed this with a puppy in my lap and I'm not even sure if it makes sense...
the performance fuel injectors i got dont fit in the rubber seal, they are too wide. can i get seals from somewhere else or??
spark plugs are OEM replacement NGKs replaced about a year ago. on my list are colder plugs.
i have a Walbro fuel pump i still need to install.
what kind of timing are you talking about (besides the dizzy adjustment)? i dont have any logging (if you mean computer) capabilities.
-so hopefully changing the fuel pump and figuring out a way to install the fuel injectors will help a little.
strangely i have not gotten any other engine codes other then the O2 sensor, which the fuel issue would solve.
anyways thanks! keep 'em coming!
Think of your combustion chambers like your favorite mixed drink, mine is Captain Morgan (air) and Sprite Zero (fuel).
Your car left the assembly line with the ECU programmed to add the proper amount of Sprite based on the metered amount of Captain entering your motor. While the ECU can add and pull Sprite based on the density and temperature of the Captain to a certain extent, you're now forcing more Captain in there that the ECU was ever ready for, resulting in a really bad tasting drink. What you need to do now (amongst other things) is to trick your ECU into pumping in more Sprite than normal however you feel comfortable...
I know rising rate FMU's were hot with Hondas back in the day, I'm pretty sure there are bigger and better things available now. I've always liked APEXi AFC's for their availability, cheap price (used) and essential ease of use once you're familiar with it's interface. In essence it is spliced in between the signal from the MAP going to the ECU and alters it so that you may trick the ECU into adding more or less fuel in ~200RPM (? - It's been a while since I've rocked one, beed ECU Flashing the EVO since I've owned it...) to compensate for the air that the ECU doesn't know how to handle.
Again, not sure if that made sense. :oops:
well i hope my post makes sence i can ramble on alot but i hope this helps
Now this schematic ain't exactly up to scale but damn it sure is purty!!
i know nothing on resizing these damn things so it wouldnt let me post just the pic.. the tune/install on my computer was done by a guy i work with he is somewhat of a honda tuning god... ill ask him when he gets back friday.
seeing as im in the middle of midterms right now i dont have time to work on the car.
man i chose a terrible time to do this haha, now i cant even drive it lol.
anyways. im still trying to understand everything everybody wrote :oops:
Please stay on topic, this thread isn't about back seats. :roll:
Got pictures of them? What color are the tops?
http://www.homemadeturbo.com/tech_projects/dsm_injectors/index.html
yeah i saw that man! thanks. i posted that reply before i checked that link lol. (also got the package from you)
little update, i go to install my fuel pump. i had to cut the strap clamps holder things because they were rusted solid. anyways, get everything down and out... and it turns out the fuel pump i have is literally almost half the size of my stock one :shock: also the electrical connectors are different. anyways, i ghetto rigged it either way to see if it would prime, and sure 'nuff it primed..
now, do you think it will be an issue? im thinking this fuel pump is from a 5th genner Civic...
wow look at that...pictures of MY wagon in his garage. LOL
ok...lets talk this out
By checking your member pages post I can see you have made the conversion to multi-point so that is done.
now adding the JRSC is a easy step as long as you remember a few important things....extra air needs extra fuel.
the stock injectors are 240cc rated which is fine for stock.
two ways to get more fuel....raise fuel pressure signifigantly during boost or increase injector size.
raising fuel pressure to compensate was the original method the supercharger used.
a seperate FMU mounted in the return line from the fuel rail and would raise the fuel pressure 8-10 psi for every pound of boost.
this puts a strain on the fuel pump so upgraded pump is required.
this is the simplest method of addressing the situation.
larger injector on the other hand do not require additional fuel pressure so there is no added strain on the pump.
however larger injectors inject addtional fuel during idle and cruising also so a method of "scaling down" the injector pulse is required with larger injectors...best is a ecu programmed for boost.
the ecu would then use the map sensor signal to determine how much air is going in and would control the injectors to keep the ratio right.
ok lets see your stuff...
it looks like in your picture above that your have an addtional unit in the retrun line....do you have any addtional information about it? what is its rate? any more pics?
the car will need premium gas from now on...octane booster isn't gonna help.
the O2 sensor code is probably because the air-fuel ratios are way off.
now on mine (pictured) I used a programmable ecu called ZDYNE along with DSM bluetop injectors. (450 cc)
I used a dremel just like in that link to make them fit...you don't need a different fuel rail.
BTW..notice I didn't mention a fuel pump upgrade because the original one is still there.
so if i upgrade my fuel pump, i wouldnt really need to upgrade injectors and the ECU? right now im trying my best to stay away from ECU upgrades, because of budget (or lack of..)
exactly.....if the added fuel is being supplied by the higher pressure of the "auxiliary fuel pressure regulator", then you do not need the larger injectors or the pcm to control them.
and it works the other way too...larger injectors and pcm do not require the higher fuel pressure from the "auxiliary fuel pressure regulator" and the upgraded fuel pump.
ok, that is out of the way.
do you have any pictures other than what you have already posted of the "auxiliary fuel pressure regulator"?
and please note, where the fuel lines go
the off center fuel fitting should be going to the fuelrail and the center one should be returning to the car to go back to the tank.
Where do you have the vacuum line on the "auxiliary fuel pressure regulator" attached?
im guessing something got disconnected in the fuel tank. ef ef ef ef ef. it was such a pain in the arse too. whatever, im done with this crap for now. oh, also it was throwing a O2 code again.
but at least it was running better....? (was..)
anyways, to answer your question: i have the Auxiliary thing hooked up the the vacuum connecter next to the OEM fuel pressure reg. vacuum connection. oh, and i checked and rechecked to manke sure the center and off-center fittings were in their correct location. (which they are)
anyways, it runs now though.. but idles very rough. i drops constantly from 1800 rpms down to almost 0 every other second. kinda like "vroooooom *drop* vroooooooom *drop*etc. and is squeaks like there is something that needs to be greased, and now a new issue is that there is a efkin loud sound like a French Horn blowing coming from the JRSC. wtf, did i get a faulty JRSC? are the bearings going bad on top of everything else?!
i swear i am never modding anything again as long as i live.