What is Wrong with the D16A6?
syd
Band Wagon
So...I deffinitely need more power. I realize this is never going to be a tire burning machine, but in the age of 240hp minivans, my little wagon feels a little taxed merging and passing on the highway, especially if there are passengers. The D16A6 can't be that bad can it? I had planned on autocrossing the little car and I don't want to do a motor swap because of the following:
1) that will put me against some fierce competition and "trailer queens." The cars in that class mean BUSINESS and I still plan on driving mine every day.
2)Parts for the ZC aren't easy to come by since it was never sold here, and every time I go to NAPA or have any issues, I don't want to explain the swap
3)The power gains from a ZC swap don't seem THAT incredible considering the cost and effort to tune it all in etc.
4)"Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know." I have seen some people have bad experiences with second hand "japanese" engines and they usually end up needing a rebuild or they leak or they (insert problem here). This has made me a little gun shy. I am kind of familiar with the engine in my car and know what I am working with (for the most part). I recognize that squeezing out extra performance will stress the engine more though.
5) My car only has 110K on it. It should be good for a while shouldn't it!?
I've looked around but can't find a lot of info on hot D16a6 engines. Everyone seems to throw them out and swap into something else. I've looked into the Jackson racing supercharger but it's no longer in production and it seems expensive. To go from 108(A6) to 130(ZC) doesn't seem that unfathomable...does it? Are there cams, ECUs, etc that could work? I don't want to get into pistons and stuff...may as well do a swap by the time you go there.
Are there forums? I tried CRX Si.com but it didn't seem really useful unless I didn't look around in the right places.
What should I do!?
1) that will put me against some fierce competition and "trailer queens." The cars in that class mean BUSINESS and I still plan on driving mine every day.
2)Parts for the ZC aren't easy to come by since it was never sold here, and every time I go to NAPA or have any issues, I don't want to explain the swap
3)The power gains from a ZC swap don't seem THAT incredible considering the cost and effort to tune it all in etc.
4)"Sometimes the devil you know is better than the devil you don't know." I have seen some people have bad experiences with second hand "japanese" engines and they usually end up needing a rebuild or they leak or they (insert problem here). This has made me a little gun shy. I am kind of familiar with the engine in my car and know what I am working with (for the most part). I recognize that squeezing out extra performance will stress the engine more though.
5) My car only has 110K on it. It should be good for a while shouldn't it!?
I've looked around but can't find a lot of info on hot D16a6 engines. Everyone seems to throw them out and swap into something else. I've looked into the Jackson racing supercharger but it's no longer in production and it seems expensive. To go from 108(A6) to 130(ZC) doesn't seem that unfathomable...does it? Are there cams, ECUs, etc that could work? I don't want to get into pistons and stuff...may as well do a swap by the time you go there.
Are there forums? I tried CRX Si.com but it didn't seem really useful unless I didn't look around in the right places.
What should I do!?
Comments
http://www.fourthgenhatch.net/zc.html
the D16A6 is also a very good engine though. you may simply want to start out with a Cold Air intake, headers, exhaust. help it breathe better. also could be your plugs, wires, cap and rotor are old and need to be replaced. as well as fuel filter.
i have a D15B2 in my car with about 110K miles as well, and its quite spunky IMO for an old 1.5L. i have all new components though (like the plugs, wires...etc) and a CAI, catback exhaust, etc.
sure its still prolly the slowest car on the road (though not by much) but it keeps up and does its job well
anywho, food for thought
D16A6 blocks are tough, thats what most people use for Mini-Me swaps. Its what I'm planning... I have a D16Z6 head, D16Y8 IM, D16A6 Block, ZC Pistons/Rods<---- Should be good for maybe 140hp if tuned right which doesn't seem like much but the torque will be there which is what counts.
As for upgrades for the D16:
DOHC ZC pistons and Rods will boost compression
SOHC ZC Cam is more aggressive and a drop in
D16Y8 Intake manifold works(I think) and B-series TB's bolt to that IM
D16A6's have lots of performance parts
Check out Bisimoto.com(????) and JG Engineering(????)
So mainly just do some in-depth searching
it was $900.
as far as install, i dont have it yet, but its the same as changing out your intake manifold which i did when i did an MPFI swap, then just adding the brackets and what not that come with it. honestly, very easy if you know a thing or two about mechanics
As for building...
I can't find a recipe for a D16a6 build anywhere. I'll try those sites that you gave me though as a great start!
-Syd
welcome and hello, there are a few threds on here with some good info on the D-series. if you look in engine & drivetrain a little more there is a locked thred with some info your looking for. (170hp d-series thred) dont mind the jerry springer type shoot downs towards the end. also there is a newer guy here from poland with a simular build. this is a great motor, and keep in mind the older the honda block
and this all older blocks are built much stronger than the new stuff.
also comes with another pice of sharge pipe that has the BOV on it
heres the kit on my wagon
On the other hand it's very cheap and somewhat easy to put a Z6 head on it (requires converting to OBD1 and bypassing injector resistor box) and do the standard bolt ons. That may be enough to satisfy some people.
Personally, if I'm going to throw some big money into one of my cars, it's going to be the Miata, not the wagon. That said, some cheap upgrades for a little extra oomph couldn't hurt - merging onto the highway is a little tricky, particularly with the less efficient gearing and drag of an auto.
i used to think the same thing now i wont own a honda without one on it hell my truck even has a turbo on it. If u change your mind i am local and could meet up in north bend if u want.
X2
Once you run a turbo honda motor, you'll be in love... I turbo'd a DOHC ZC awhile back and that car was fast I could chirp the tires doing like 35-40 if I downshifted and floored it(If that makes any sense :? )
ah yes, the good for not much old style composite head gaskets :evil: hatem. if anyone ever does a head gasket on a d-series make shure its the new style 3 layer or 99-00 y8 2 layer. one size fits all and you wont have to spend an hour getting the residue of the surface of the block anymore.
The D16A6 is a great little motor, I was really surprised when the one I have in my hatch was freshly rebuilt and still running NA. It was a fun little car. Quoting HP numbers is fine, but people seem to forget, a 100K Mile motor probably isn’t going to dyno out the same as a fresh rebuilt one. Even a really in depth tune up can help. Nothing beats a full rebuild though.
If you buy a JDM motor, rebuild it before you drop it in. Importers love to tell you how they are under a certain mileage, but you never really know. Plus, watch them drive in Japan. Those motors get BEAT on. Sometimes you get lucky. Sometimes you don’t. Rebuild it BEFORE you drop it in.
Me personally, I would find a local D16A6 that someone is selling, or grab one from a scrap yard. They are REALLY cheap. Rebuild it, THEN install it. You’ll be pretty happy. The one that’s in my hatch right now was actually purchased from a Honda nuts Garage while he was just trying to make room. Both motors needed rebuilding, and I picked them up for 50 bucks. Not each, that 50 bucks for 2 blocks and 2 heads.
Also though, keep in mind, the 4WD wagon is a heavy beast, dragging the extra 4WD equipment around. Its not going to be as quick as a light little Hatch or CRX. If you wanted to build it just for a race car or to be really competitive, that’s a different story. But for a DD with some “fun days” of SOLO2 or whatever, I would stick with the D16A6.
i agree with this somewhat, you have to be smart about which jdm motor that would not have been beat on. i mean the carbed motors are not likely beaten on at all, the d16a or the a6 version that is not likely and the a6 version zc prob not.
now i can say some mid model cars like d15b del sol, yea that motor has been hit and miss from what ive seen. this motor has been in kinda heavy cars for the displacment so in turn would have been worked pretty hard in a short term.
b16 yea beat on also the 1st gen b16 came in the da teg (heavy car) again taxing the small cc count. all dohc vtec's have more head friction than the rest its the nature of the beast. i could go on and on about which motors to look out for but you get the idea. also request automatic motor's mainly cause you cant really red line easy or all the time, well they can be total idiots and hold them in 2nd gear or powershift them alot, but again its not the i can red line every gear and hold it there type of trans. always rebuilding will be a plus, but then again honda most likely didnt do it, they are the pro's and the factory is temp control super clean environment. dont think most engine rebuilders can pull this off, trust me ive seen some expensive disasters before. and last is believe it or not if the motor is in good shape even at 100000+ miles ive seen dyno results with lower hp after the rebiulds! not by much, but why? maybie the compression boost that carbon build up can produce. i have seen this time and time again
I used 1989 Acura Integra "P29" pistons, rings, and wrist pins pressed onto the stock A6 rods. Some say use the 86-89 Integra D16A1 rods, but unless you plan on revving higher than 7000rpm the A6 rods are just fine, plus they're lighter.
All genuine Honda parts:
Color coded bearings:
P29 dome tops FTW:
I also ran the 96-00 Civic EX metal head gasket, so my overall CR was right at 11:1CR. I ran stock head, stock cam, and in my old STD hatch with a built Zc/Si hybrid 5-speed tranny it literally never lost to any of my friend's B18B swaps - 1 00 hatch, 1 94 CX hatch, and 1 94 DX coupe all with B18B swaps that I personally had a hand in, so they were running in top form.
The autotragic tranny does knock the edge off of the high CR D16A6, but IMO it's much better than buying an unknown condition JDM SOHC or trying to auto-manual swap and do a B series. If you want auto keep it, but if you want 5-speed I'd just buy a 5-speed wagon and dtart there personally.
there's good stuff to hope for in the future with all the things possible. and theres so much possible! alot of wagons here have some serious hp, and alot with fun hp and of coarse the ones that run like the factory wanted them to, with long life and zippy character. haha "whats wrong with the d16a6" just doesnt cut it lol