d15b vs 16y8 = NO AWD ***EDIT***

ep3royaltyep3royalty Wagonist
in Engine & Drivetrain
think of doing a swap... :lol:

im looking for pro's n con's

easy vs hard (as in the swap)

best bang for my buck... (and i want to stay single cam+awd)
«1

Comments

  • stephenstephen Senior Wagonist
    i can only tell about what i know.

    i have a d16y7 that i swapped in without doing the mpfi so that i could leave the stock ecu and intake. i needed easy and cheap when i did it and thats what i got. i am going back in soon and wiring the mpfi and changing intake mani and ecu and also cleaning the engine bay a bit.

    none of it is really hard so far but i have someone with a lot of swap experience available. with the y8 it gets a little harder because of having to wire the vtec, but that really the only extra step as far as i know.

    my little dab of knowledge, hope it helps.
  • Mista BoneMista Bone Wagonist
    1.6L for the torque, useable in DD status.
  • lucskywalkerlucskywalker Wagonist
    none of those will work with awd because of the intermediate shaft has no where to bolt to, dohc zc, sohc zc, a6, z6 are your only choise unless you just swap the head over. this was in the 170 hp build it would have been easy to find since it was in sticky at one time, but some people didnt think this stuff was important on this forum to find easy since you can just go to h-t forum to figure this out. good luck and sorry for the inconvenience.
  • B18C5-EH2B18C5-EH2 Moderator
    lucskywalker wrote:
    none of those will work with awd because of the intermediate shaft has no where to bolt to, dohc zc, sohc zc, a6, z6 are your only choise unless you just swap the head over. this was in the 170 hp build it would have been easy to find since it was in sticky at one time, but some people didnt think this stuff was important on this forum to find easy since you can just go to h-t forum to figure this out. good luck and sorry for the inconvenience.

    Wow did unstickying your engine theory topic hurt your feelings? Get over it.

    Anyways my personal opinion is that the Y series engines are junk when compared to all other older honda D blocks. In my 8 years at my current Honda-only shop we have replaced literally 20 or so Y series engines all due to rod knocks, while all other 88-95 D engines combined we've maybe done 2 due to rod knock, and honestly they might have been ran out of oil.

    Nobody has ever really pinned down why Y series blocks end up with rod knocks, but trust me it's very common. I'd use an 88-91 D16A6 block over any of them, but if you must buy a complete engine from an importer that comes with a warranty get a SOHC VTEC ZC as it is just like our D16Z6 - a much more durable engine than any D16Y series.

    :)
  • evol911evol911 familEE
    B18C5-EH2 wrote:
    Nobody has ever really pinned down why Y series blocks end up with rod knocks, but trust me it's very common. I'd use an 88-91 D16A6 block over any of them, but if you must buy a complete engine from an importer that comes with a warranty get a SOHC VTEC ZC as it is just like our D16Z6 - a much more durable engine than any D16Y series.

    :)

    Hey I was just researching some stuff about this and found a couple of good theories. The one that makes the most sense with me is: Y8 blocks were built a little less expensive then their Z6 counterparts. The oil pumps made less pressure than the Z6 and oil passges in the block were subsuquently ran with a smaller diameter to raise oil pressure out of the the pump. And from what I read on some other forums, it seems as #4 cylinder is the worst for this problem. So oil starvation=rod knock! Just some information I've read, don't know if it holds water :?
  • ZLITESZLITES New Wagonist
    B18C5-EH2 wrote:
    lucskywalker wrote:
    none of those will work with awd because of the intermediate shaft has no where to bolt to, dohc zc, sohc zc, a6, z6 are your only choise unless you just swap the head over. this was in the 170 hp build it would have been easy to find since it was in sticky at one time, but some people didnt think this stuff was important on this forum to find easy since you can just go to h-t forum to figure this out. good luck and sorry for the inconvenience.

    Wow did unstickying your engine theory topic hurt your feelings? Get over it.

    Anyways my personal opinion is that the Y series engines are junk when compared to all other older honda D blocks. In my 8 years at my current Honda-only shop we have replaced literally 20 or so Y series engines all due to rod knocks, while all other 88-95 D engines combined we've maybe done 2 due to rod knock, and honestly they might have been ran out of oil.

    Nobody has ever really pinned down why Y series blocks end up with rod knocks, but trust me it's very common. I'd use an 88-91 D16A6 block over any of them, but if you must buy a complete engine from an importer that comes with a warranty get a SOHC VTEC ZC as it is just like our D16Z6 - a much more durable engine than any D16Y series.

    :)

    from what I've read a long time ago, the d16y8 motor has the highest compression of all d series motors. I'm a noob at motors so, thought to give some knowledge of what I know. But a lil question, my co-worker was stunned to see my wagovan and asked if i was planning to do a swap. I said a Y8 but he said a ZC. Now im thinking a ZC is the same motor as a B18b (LS) correct? BUt it's JDM, how will that pass CA-emissions? Since after this year 86 cars dont need to be smogged. i'm think have my final smog check done and have some play. But any1 who can help me out with the whole ZC being smog legal in CA, let me know, thanks
  • lucskywalkerlucskywalker Wagonist
    nope, dohc zc is in the d-series family, there are acually two generations of this motor, well i guess 3 one comes obd1 but the two black tops are almost identical, then there is a olive top

    black top has some say 130hp some say 138 i say 135 call it a day

    olive top has again some say 128hp and some say 135 i say 130 call it a day

    black top is a trick for getting the right parts:
    88-91 prelude timing belt
    86-89 integra head gasket/intake manifold parts distributer/88-89 only cyl sensor
    headers from any d-series will work but some need a little honing to line up other wise its the teg for perfect fit
    88-91 civic sohc waterpump and if i remember right oil pump
    its kinda a mut of sorts motor but when you know what to buy its a great motor that bolts right to you d-series trans if you have to.

    olive top is all 86-87 integra parts with a 85-87 style trottle body but its easy to swap to the newer intake manifolds headers are the same story as the black top. also a great motor somtimes people confuse these for the usdm motor but we never got this version of the motor for our were rated 113/118hp this motor only bolts to 86-89 teg trans and is generally only used in the 84-87 third gen civics

    this motor has got some legs and it is as fast as the ls in my opinion plus its a drop in and have fun deal with only 2 wires to move to the cyl sensor if you already have mpfi

    way better gas milage than the ls

    anyone out there who has some info i left out feel free to chime in this is a great motor for a dependable and fun ride.
  • suspendedHatchsuspendedHatch Wagonist
    The OBD2 D series blocks blow up more often because of the oil pump. Some people modify the oil pump to flow better.

    It's not true that the OBD2 series motors have higher compression. .2 higher compression really isn't significant. I'll have to look at the specs again and compare them but I'm pretty sure that the OBD1's are around 9.2 and 9.4 and the OBD2 are around 9.4 with one of them being 9.6.

    The OBD2 heads are far more efficient than the OBD1. They have better quench area and the secondary intake valve is opened slightly less. This swirls the mixture and squirts it into the center around the spark plug resulting in a more complete burn with less chance of abnormal combustion (ping, knock). As a result the OBD2 D series engines require much less ignition timing advance to achieve MBT.
  • lucskywalkerlucskywalker Wagonist
    suspendedHatch wrote:
    The OBD2 D series blocks blow up more often because of the oil pump. Some people modify the oil pump to flow better.

    It's not true that the OBD2 series motors have higher compression. .2 higher compression really isn't significant. I'll have to look at the specs again and compare them but I'm pretty sure that the OBD1's are around 9.2 and 9.4 and the OBD2 are around 9.4 with one of them being 9.6.

    The OBD2 heads are far more efficient than the OBD1. They have better quench area and the secondary intake valve is opened slightly less. This swirls the mixture and squirts it into the center around the spark plug resulting in a more complete burn with less chance of abnormal combustion (ping, knock). As a result the OBD2 D series engines require much less ignition timing advance to achieve MBT.


    whats up man :D could not have said it better myself, usdm gas sucks so its a wise design
  • ep3royaltyep3royalty Wagonist
    lucskywalker wrote:
    none of those will work with awd because of the intermediate shaft has no where to bolt to, dohc zc, sohc zc, a6, z6 are your only choise unless you just swap the head over. this was in the 170 hp build it would have been easy to find since it was in sticky at one time, but some people didnt think this stuff was important on this forum to find easy since you can just go to h-t forum to figure this out. good luck and sorry for the inconvenience.

    so no luck with these motors due to the "intermediate shaft" and the only thing good about the y8 is the head :shock: thank you...


    ps...
    sorry about you sticky :oops:
  • ep3royaltyep3royalty Wagonist
    lucskywalker wrote:
    nope, dohc zc is in the d-series family, there are acually two generations of this motor, well i guess 3 one comes obd1 but the two black tops are almost identical, then there is a olive top

    black top has some say 130hp some say 138 i say 135 call it a day

    olive top has again some say 128hp and some say 135 i say 130 call it a day

    black top is a trick for getting the right parts:
    88-91 prelude timing belt
    86-89 integra head gasket/intake manifold parts distributer/88-89 only cyl sensor
    headers from any d-series will work but some need a little honing to line up other wise its the teg for perfect fit
    88-91 civic sohc waterpump and if i remember right oil pump
    its kinda a mut of sorts motor but when you know what to buy its a great motor that bolts right to you d-series trans if you have to.

    olive top is all 86-87 integra parts with a 85-87 style trottle body but its easy to swap to the newer intake manifolds headers are the same story as the black top. also a great motor somtimes people confuse these for the usdm motor but we never got this version of the motor for our were rated 113/118hp this motor only bolts to 86-89 teg trans and is generally only used in the 84-87 third gen civics

    this motor has got some legs and it is as fast as the ls in my opinion plus its a drop in and have fun deal with only 2 wires to move to the cyl sensor if you already have mpfi

    way better gas milage than the ls

    anyone out there who has some info i left out feel free to chime in this is a great motor for a dependable and fun ride.



    what about the sohc ZC??? the reason that i ask is im thinkin that this is going to be the route that ill take but now its a matter of vtec vs no vtech
  • shenrieshenrie Council Member
    Some good info in this thread. Im learing from it for sure.

    I have a bit of info that might help out as it did for us. The OBD2 SOHC VTEC heads use the the same bolt pattern on the dist as the D16A6. So you dont have to mess with modifing the tabs for it to bolt up. HTH's at least one person, lol.
    lucskywalker wrote:
    none of those will work with awd because of the intermediate shaft has no where to bolt to, dohc zc, sohc zc, a6, z6 are your only choise unless you just swap the head over.

    I might have found a way around this, but not for sure as of yet. Ill chime in after I get a chance at install. The block has one tapped out hole ready to go for the int shaft, and I think if you use the bottom bolt holes from teh intake manifold support you can make a plate bolt up and have a place for the other two bolts on the int shaft. Crossing fingers as I allready own the D15B.
  • ep3royaltyep3royalty Wagonist
    My last post was kinda vague... when i called the motor yard they said the SOHC ZC came vtec or no vtec... and i was thinkn if i should spend the xtra money and get the ZC vtec or should i get the no vtec, save some cash and then get a y8 head???
  • ep3royaltyep3royalty Wagonist
    lucskywalker wrote:
    none of those will work with awd because of the intermediate shaft has no where to bolt to, dohc zc, sohc zc, a6, z6 are your only choise unless you just swap the head over. this was in the 170 hp build it would have been easy to find since it was in sticky at one time, but some people didnt think this stuff was important on this forum to find easy since you can just go to h-t forum to figure this out. good luck and sorry for the inconvenience.

    CHECK IT OUT...

    ***STICKY***
    http://www.hondacivicwagon.com/board/vi ... highlight=
  • suspendedHatchsuspendedHatch Wagonist
    The D16A6 distributor will fit the OBD2 D series heads and all the OBD1's excluding the VTEC and VTEC-E heads. Essentially the Z1, Z6, and their OBD1 JDM counterparts ie the ZC and D15B.

    There are a number of SOHC ZC's. There is a D16A6 clone, a D16Z6 clone, and possibly even more beyond that.
  • ep3royaltyep3royalty Wagonist
    suspendedHatch wrote:
    The D16A6 distributor will fit the OBD2 D series heads and all the OBD1's excluding the VTEC and VTEC-E heads. Essentially the Z1, Z6, and their OBD1 JDM counterparts ie the ZC and D15B.

    There are a number of SOHC ZC's. There is a D16A6 clone, a D16Z6 clone, and possibly even more beyond that.


    so does it matter which SOHC ZC i get>>> the reason i ask is when i call the motor yard they just asked which year i neeeded vs an engine code (ex. d16z6, etc.)
  • suspendedHatchsuspendedHatch Wagonist
    What country are you in that would have ZC's at the junkyard?

    Yes, the engines are very different. You will want the engine that matches the ECU you want to use. If you're converting to OBD1 and using a P28, you'll want the D16Z6 equivalent ZC. If you're staying OBD0 you'll want the non VTEC D16A6 equivalent SOHC ZC. I've had both and I felt that the OBD0 ZC was faster, though it was in a 90 Si vs my 93 Civic hatch with the OBD1 ZC.
  • ep3royaltyep3royalty Wagonist
    suspendedHatch wrote:
    What country are you in that would have ZC's at the junkyard?

    Yes, the engines are very different. You will want the engine that matches the ECU you want to use. If you're converting to OBD1 and using a P28, you'll want the D16Z6 equivalent ZC. If you're staying OBD0 you'll want the non VTEC D16A6 equivalent SOHC ZC. I've had both and I felt that the OBD0 ZC was faster, though it was in a 90 Si vs my 93 Civic hatch with the OBD1 ZC.

    I'm in USA... I was talkn about the place that I call that import the motors... I was thinkn about just stickn w the OBD0 to keep things simple... But I'm open to suggestions or input on what woul be a better value/ more power ;)
  • evol911evol911 familEE
    ep3royalty wrote:
    suspendedHatch wrote:
    What country are you in that would have ZC's at the junkyard?

    Yes, the engines are very different. You will want the engine that matches the ECU you want to use. If you're converting to OBD1 and using a P28, you'll want the D16Z6 equivalent ZC. If you're staying OBD0 you'll want the non VTEC D16A6 equivalent SOHC ZC. I've had both and I felt that the OBD0 ZC was faster, though it was in a 90 Si vs my 93 Civic hatch with the OBD1 ZC.

    I'm in USA... I was talkn about the place that I call that import the motors... I was thinkn about just stickn w the OBD0 to keep things simple... But I'm open to suggestions or input on what woul be a better value/ more power ;)

    Get an obd0 DOHC ZC!!! End of your problems/worries!!
  • lucskywalkerlucskywalker Wagonist
    Get an obd0 DOHC ZC!!! End of your problems/worries!![/quote]

    thats what im talkin about! great motor and the looks of dohc are so overwelming doesnt matter the series they always look great in there! easyer to tune as well 8)
  • suspendedHatchsuspendedHatch Wagonist
    Nah, get an OBD0 SOHC ZC. Why do you want a D series DOHC that makes D series power? Poor r/s ratio, no aftermarket parts. Takes up more engine room. It's more work to replace the timing belt, head gasket etc. Harder to find replacement parts even. The SOHC ZC is fast can isn't hard to make faster.

    How do the DOHC gear ratios compare to the SOHC?
  • lucskywalkerlucskywalker Wagonist
    all d16's have the same r/s ratio from what i remember? d15' are a little better, but close the 1.6, and the head, well valve cover takes up about an inch on both front and back other wise the same dimentionaly, dohc zc trans to me sucks, 80mph in 5th gear is screaming the motor at like 5000ish rpms. parts are simply- sohc block stuff exept head gasket, head gasket and up is 88-89 integra and the timing belt is 88 prelude 2.0si.
    not that hard if you remember these 3 catagorys.
  • ep3royaltyep3royalty Wagonist
    lucskywalker wrote:
    all d16's have the same r/s ratio from what i remember? d15' are a little better, but close the 1.6, and the head, well valve cover takes up about an inch on both front and back other wise the same dimentionaly, dohc zc trans to me sucks, 80mph in 5th gear is screaming the motor at like 5000ish rpms. parts are simply- sohc block stuff exept head gasket, head gasket and up is 88-89 integra and the timing belt is 88 prelude 2.0si.
    not that hard if you remember these 3 catagorys.


    SO......


    .........................................................timing
    head gasket and up is 88-89 integra.....belt
    .........................................................is
    sohc block stuff exept head gasket.......88
    .........................................................prelude 2.0si
  • lucskywalkerlucskywalker Wagonist
    ep3royalty wrote:
    lucskywalker wrote:
    all d16's have the same r/s ratio from what i remember? d15' are a little better, but close the 1.6, and the head, well valve cover takes up about an inch on both front and back other wise the same dimentionaly, dohc zc trans to me sucks, 80mph in 5th gear is screaming the motor at like 5000ish rpms. parts are simply- sohc block stuff exept head gasket, head gasket and up is 88-89 integra and the timing belt is 88 prelude 2.0si.
    not that hard if you remember these 3 catagorys.


    SO......


    .........................................................timing
    head gasket and up is 88-89 integra.....belt
    .........................................................is
    sohc block stuff exept head gasket.......88
    .........................................................prelude 2.0si

    timing belt 88-89 2.0si prelude
    head gasket and all head parts 88-89 intagra
    block 88-91 d16a6 civic
  • ep3royaltyep3royalty Wagonist
    thanks>>> :D


    this is good info for a rebuild :roll:
  • ep3royaltyep3royalty Wagonist
    So weapon of choice is going to be a OBD0 SOHC ZC non VTEC... And I'm going to try it as is vs tryn to do the whole timing belt, water pump deal... Or should I do all the maintance while I have the motor out???
  • lucskywalkerlucskywalker Wagonist
    ep3royalty wrote:
    So weapon of choice is going to be a OBD0 SOHC ZC non VTEC... And I'm going to try it as is vs tryn to do the whole timing belt, water pump deal... Or should I do all the maintance while I have the motor out???
    its up to you my friend. take a look at the belt see what kind of shape its in, if its still black and soft and no fraying keep it. just remember when you know you put the belt/w-pump in you know when the next service is due. 8)
  • evol911evol911 familEE
    Why wouldn't you do the timing belt and pump?? You are going to be kicking yourself when you snap a timing belt after installing that engine. Those engines just sit in warehouses and in containers. Coming across the ocean isn't too good for them. I mean, they usually clear coat them so they won't rust but it does nothing for the belts or who knows if the inside of the engine isn't rusting. Seals are being dried out and such. Replace as much as you can afford because we all know that as soon as you put that motor in, you are going to be hard on the gas. Thats just human/honda nature!
  • ep3royaltyep3royalty Wagonist
    AWSOME... Those were the kinda responses I was lookn for... I wanted to make sure we all were on the same page ;)
    Aside from the timing belt and water pump what other MAJOR things should I look at replacing...??? Aside from cap rotor plugs etc...
  • evol911evol911 familEE
    ep3royalty wrote:
    AWSOME... Those were the kinda responses I was lookn for... I wanted to make sure we all were on the same page ;)
    Aside from the timing belt and water pump what other MAJOR things should I look at replacing...??? Aside from cap rotor plugs etc...

    I would replace both main seals on the crankshaft so there is no oil leakage, timing belt tensioner, valve cover gaskets. I wouldn't split the head from the block unless its needed. Honda is awesome about their head/gasket to block/deck all that stuff, so I would only worry about doing the head when it is needed. Adjust the valves back to factory specs if needed(when the motor is cold) and check timing when it's back in. I would follow standard engine break-in procedures also for whats recommended on new Honda's. Something like keep it under a certain RPM for the first 500 miles aor so and change the oil and filter a couple of times during that.
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