The Difference Between the Stock D15B and a B18B...lol
B18C5-EH2
Moderator
Okay so I know all I'm probably doing is pointing out the obvious here, but it was such a profound experience I just had to post.
Some of you may know I've got a B18B LS swap in my wagon.
Some of you may or may not also know that my mom has a wagon too, a DX model.
I drove her car yesterday at great length only to realize the night and day difference between the stocker and the 1.8L swap. I know it sounds retarded/obvious but I've not owned a 1.5L stock Honda since literally 1996.
The difference in daily driving/tooling around is insane. I found myself wanting to leave the car in 3rd or 4th gear when cruising down a two lane road because when approaching hills the car just doesn't want to accelerate much if left in 5th gear.
Driving "spiritedly" in the stocker was more stressful as I literally felt like after 4500rpm or so I was just hurting the engine.
I am not posting this to offend anyone still driving your stocker 1.5L engine - I am however posting so that if you ever were debating on doing a simple LS swap and wonder "just how much difference is there?" that the difference is completely night and day, and not just if all-out drag racing.
My mom is going out of town this week so I'll be taking the opportunity to do some work on her wagon like new brakes, etc. I've already tuned it up, new belts/waterpump, lowered it, etc. so it runs as it should.
While I have the car I'm going to see if I can commission someone to film some different "races" between the stock 1.5L and the B18B swap. This won't be your typical drag racing footage as I'd like to do 5th gear pulls at 45mph, 3rd gear passing at 35mph, etc. etc.
I think it's obvious that a 1.8L engine that requires mount kits, axles, tranny swap, etc. to mount into our wagons should be hands down faster in a drag race, but the daily drivability the 1.8L swap adds is IMO so much more satisfying - I'd like to be able to illustrate that for the wagon community.
You guys have any ideas on what other tests I could do?
Some of you may know I've got a B18B LS swap in my wagon.
Some of you may or may not also know that my mom has a wagon too, a DX model.
I drove her car yesterday at great length only to realize the night and day difference between the stocker and the 1.8L swap. I know it sounds retarded/obvious but I've not owned a 1.5L stock Honda since literally 1996.
The difference in daily driving/tooling around is insane. I found myself wanting to leave the car in 3rd or 4th gear when cruising down a two lane road because when approaching hills the car just doesn't want to accelerate much if left in 5th gear.
Driving "spiritedly" in the stocker was more stressful as I literally felt like after 4500rpm or so I was just hurting the engine.
I am not posting this to offend anyone still driving your stocker 1.5L engine - I am however posting so that if you ever were debating on doing a simple LS swap and wonder "just how much difference is there?" that the difference is completely night and day, and not just if all-out drag racing.
My mom is going out of town this week so I'll be taking the opportunity to do some work on her wagon like new brakes, etc. I've already tuned it up, new belts/waterpump, lowered it, etc. so it runs as it should.
While I have the car I'm going to see if I can commission someone to film some different "races" between the stock 1.5L and the B18B swap. This won't be your typical drag racing footage as I'd like to do 5th gear pulls at 45mph, 3rd gear passing at 35mph, etc. etc.
I think it's obvious that a 1.8L engine that requires mount kits, axles, tranny swap, etc. to mount into our wagons should be hands down faster in a drag race, but the daily drivability the 1.8L swap adds is IMO so much more satisfying - I'd like to be able to illustrate that for the wagon community.
You guys have any ideas on what other tests I could do?
Comments
two cars i can compare are my dads '05 Mazda3 S 5-door, 2.3 I-4 160 hp. when compared to my D15, the real difference is mainly noticeable when i down shift to pass, then the torque of the 2.3 is really felt. but in daily driving i cant feel too much of a difference, so i really cant complain about my D15s power. its first take off is quite good and satisfying, though it does lack a bit of power between the mid rpms. and i can get up the Talmadge bridge here in savannah with no need to downshift at all while still accelerating. of course its not a fast motor, but hardly something that has to be ditched (plus the 38 + mpg is nice).
im curious whether simply boosting a D15 with a JRSC would outrun a B18? this way a swap can be avoided with getting mounts, shift linkage etc. i drove my friends DA integra a while back and wasnt too terribly impressed, but thats also because he had a slipping clutch and of course the teg is about 400 lbs heavier then a wagon haha.
good post though. brings on some discussion. 8)
Do I think a JRSC'd D15 would outrun the LS swap?
Honestly no, but it would certianly make the D much more livable around town IMO. 2lbs. of boost off idle is great, and when driven easily the mpg doesn't drop much/at all.
As far as mpg goes I cannot say as I rarely fill my wagon up, AND I have the hardest time staying out of the throttle for the two weeks it'd take me to go through a full tank of gas. There's always someone who stops by my shop wanting a ride, or some jackleg bastard trying to box me out on a divided highway on my way to work, etc.
haha i know how that goes
Bam you're welcome to come down and drive the shit out of my wagon. I'd duggest even taking it an extended test drive to just tool around to see what I mean about the partial throttle cruising differences.
Let me say this about B swaps:
Mount kits are never as smooth and nice as stock mounts.
The one single thing I dislike about my car is the extra buzz I get from the AZ Race machine engine mounts. I'd like to try some of the softest durometer poly mounts that HASport has to offer, but honestly it's still a gamble and between the money the mounts cost and the PITA factor it'll be to swap them out if the difference isn't big enough it'd be a collosal failure of epic proportions.
My car has a pronounced buzz at 2100rpm. At idle and most every other rpm it's not bad, but at 2100rpm it's annoying enough for me to make a conscious effort to stay out of the 2100rpm range, which just so happens to be 45mph in 5th gear...lol
Bam also as far as staying D series I have to say that my old set-up with the semi-built D16A6 non-VTEC with 89 Integra P29 pistons and my custom ratio tranny ran every bit as good as an LS swap - seriously. It was in a hatch which is lighter than my wagon, but when I racd a few local ATL buddies of mine (Dcmullis's LS-swapped EK hatch and a friend of mine Eric Soto with a 1992 CX HB w/LS swap) my little 1.6er beat them both.
The issue is more time and finding a DOHC ZC tranny to rob its 1-4 gears to stuff in an Si case with the 4.25FD and Si 5th gear so that 1-4 are really tight, but you still get stock Si 5th gear cruising rpm.
Also I know you're not above putting in the engine building work too. The formula is very simple:
88-91 Civic/CR-X Si or RT4WD wagon D16A6 engine
88-89 Integra P29 pistons
96-00 Civic EX metal head gasket (same as 92-95 but half the cost from Honda!)
Whatever else new bearings, seals, etc. you can toss in
That bitch still rips, and it now resides in DCmullis's auto RT4WD wagon where it still runs amazingly well. I really wish he had a manual to really compare it to my LS swap chassis-for-chassis.
I like the A6 becuse you don't have to swap to OBD1, plus they are cheap/free because of them pretty much being "disposable" in many people's opinions. I used a 1989 model which had cast iron main caps. I believe the 88 and early 89 D16A6 had the iron caps, while 90-91 had the regular steel caps like most others.
lucky you dont turn me on
: )
Hehe...
Well I just realized all my pics from my high comp D16A6 build that were uplaoded on an old server are not available because the server crashed, so I'll rehost some on Photobucket and show you how bad-ass the build looked.
Basically yes the P29 slugs have a +7.2cc dome on them, while all SOHC D series pistons are dished.
With thw 11:1CR yes you have to run premium, but it was a clattering shitbox of an engine by any means - it runs like a champ still after 4 years.
In the hottest parts of summer I'd retard the timing just to be on the safe side, but with premium fuel spark knock was never an issue.
For someone like you who seems to be very mechanically inclined, and has plenty of time to do a build (obviously you do with two complete wago resprays) I'd seriously consider the A6 build idea. Hell a D16A6 rebuilt stock running a JRSC on 6psi would be awesome too if you just have a dislike for the B series swap idea.
Before anyone chimes in with DOHC ZC I must say I am not a big fan of them. I've never driven one that ran nearly as well as this rebuild D16A6, and with parts for them being much more rare I just can't get into them.
I'm leaving my wago at the shop tonight, and I'll be driving my mom's wago in tomorrow so maybe I can get some footage. Depends on if I have an extra hand. See this way I won't be outright embarrassing anyone else since it's my mom's car.
Call me at the shop if you want - (770)603-9197.
I just realized tomorrow is a double-edged sword:
My boss won't be there so you are welcome to stop by and hang out, but because of that I'm also stuck at the shop all day with no lunch break or chance to have one of my co-workers drive either wagon for these fun runs.
Rev you're welcome to take the wagon out for a spin and report your findings yourself if you'd like.
I took a few quick vids of me running my B18C5 hard today...holy geez the footage looks pretty rad. I'll see if my lame ass PC can actually load the program to read the vids so I can post them up.
What model Integra parts car would be a good donor?
Even with the drawback of mount kits I still believe in having the most power from a bone stock factory engine to begin with. Not that my B18B LS has the "most" stock power, but it has enough power/torque that I don't feel the need at all to upgrade.
As far as donor cars go the 90-91 Integra (B18A 130hp)is the first obvious choice as it has the same OBD0 electronics, cable tranny, etc. Add the mount kit and shift linkages from HASport and some wiring and it's a fairly simple process.
I've got a B18B from the 94/95 Integra RS/LS/GS/SE and it's got 140hp, but it required the change to OBD1 to keep its distributor, injectors, etc.