taking out the bolts on the oil pan 4wd wagon
949
Senior Wagonist
as many of you who own the RT 4wd wagons know that taking out the oil pan can be a huge ordeal.
for those who do not know why here is why.
the oil pan sits right between the 4wd lower and upper part of the transmission case.
i guess its hard to explain without pics.
well the only thing keeping it from be allowed to slide to one side is the bolts(studs).
has anyone tried to just remove the bolts(studs) and use replacement screw in bolts.
the majority of the them are screw in versions(bolts). only a few are bolts (studs)that are in there with nuts.
i wanted to basically see if those(studs) are threaded on the block so when i remove them i wont need to retread the block.
for those who do not know why here is why.
the oil pan sits right between the 4wd lower and upper part of the transmission case.
i guess its hard to explain without pics.
well the only thing keeping it from be allowed to slide to one side is the bolts(studs).
has anyone tried to just remove the bolts(studs) and use replacement screw in bolts.
the majority of the them are screw in versions(bolts). only a few are bolts (studs)that are in there with nuts.
i wanted to basically see if those(studs) are threaded on the block so when i remove them i wont need to retread the block.
Comments
As for holding things in place, fastners and the way they are assembled or should construct:
basically there is the nut with screw thread, then someone attached a schaft and
called it a bolt then... : )
sorry got carried away...
so, you want (if) to engineer a stud into a pin joint or screw joint ? phew...
I just had the oil changed, otherwise i would have taken the opportunity, whats down there...sorry
: )
Side note: Using some studs on the oil pan from factory was probably to aid in lining up the gasket and oil pan correctly to the motor.
indicates the strenght, carbon or alloy steel
the engine is d16 91 rtwd.
i have taken out the tranny and engine recently. i really hate doing it.
i needed an engine hoist to do it.
is there another faster way to do this, other then taking out the whole engine again just to get the tranny off?
any techniques???
The studs in the bottom of the block are the exact same thread as the bolts that go in right beside them. You can take one of your bolts to the hardware store and match it up. The hole in the block where the stud is screwed in is threaded exactly the same as the bolt holes where the bolts screw in. Once you've bought your bolts, you're good to go. There's no need for threading or tapping the block. And if you have no intention of using the studs ever again, just clamp onto them with your vice grips and unscrew them. Easy cheezy mac'n neasy!
4WD manual tranny can b removed w/o removing the engine.I've done it with basic tools,jack stands & a floor jack.
Put Wgn on jack stands.
Place a block of wood on the floor jack under the oil pan.
Remove all the mounts(3) EXCEPT the timing belt cvr one.
Lower the jack so u can clear the wgn to remove the tranny.
Done
the last time i took it off it was soo hard to align it back up even with the engine on the cherry picker and the tranny on a spare tire.
so not to get you confused. im not trynig to dispute your idea, i just want more clarification before i implement it.
there'r d16 manuals, exploded view only, torque specifications,
(liquid) gaskets , seals, washers..
a sliding tranny is a focal point/ centre of gravity issue...
patience is a virtue and virtue is its own reward ...
: )
yeah, let the engine hang from the driverside motor mount(edit: not exactly hang or you will be pushing your main pulley into the engine bay, let it down enough to remove the tranny like SiWagon said), make sure the clutch is aligned to the flywheel and trial and error until it fits into place. alignment tools are the key too all of this. the first clutch I ever did on a Honda, I layed it on my chest and shimmied it into place. that was 10 years ago so I wasn't as wise(wise like use a damn jack) and it left these weird casting impressions in my chest for a couple of days. usually just use a smaller floor jack now-a-days.
it could be 'that' easier ...
safety first, firmly-fixed ...
personally i would never recommend floor jacks or the like,
surface / level issues ... i'm not there ... where he is ...
: )
what do you guys think?
1. remove the engine splash shield
2. drain engine oil
3. drain tranny oil
4. remove exhaust pipe A (downpipe)
5. disconnect the propeller shaft (drivesaft) at the tranny
6. remove the tranny splash shield
7.remove the transfer left side cover from the transfer case. (where the driveshaft connected to on the transfer case, remove those bolts)
Note: be careful not to damage the thrust shim and mating surface
8. remove the driven gear from the transfer case
9. remove the transfer case from the clutch housing
10.remove the clutch case cover
11. remove the oil pan by removing the bolts and nuts
pan is out!!
the only issue i have is there going to be parts that will come out that i wont know how to put back together or will it all stay in the way they are and i just need to slap it back on with no issues?
also will i need a new gasket for it when i put it back together?
The trick is to make sure the tranny is aligned w/the engine.The prob is you'll get it close,but NO go.I spent 3 hours trying almost gave up.Got pissed & pulled it out .Bang went in in 2o minutes.
Kind of like at 2:30 here: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SGB36DCkq6g
yeah that was me I'm steeltoe!
like I said I've done it before on an awd dsm and it's the same principle on every awd car. also says to per oem honda manual.
we can chat here or the other forum..either way is good
in the diagram i didnt see it.
http://www.hondapartsdeals.com/hpa_part ... oupID=6591
part 23 on this link...another o-ring:
http://www.hondapartsdeals.com/hpa_part ... oupID=6600
not pictured on either link is the gasket between the xfer case and the tranny...call dealer and ask about it..I assure you there is one and must be replaced. must also add liquid gasket to the tranny side of the xfer case when it bolts back against it.
there are torques and tolerances that must strictly be followed when reinstalling. that manual would be very helpful during that time.
anyone with the tq spec on the bolts , please let me know what the tq spec should be.
any specific liquid gasket i should look for.
if not i guess i can go to my local autozone store and see what they have.
D12B, D13B, D14B, D15B, D16A and DOHC
chapter engine lubrication
that's not a bad pic..can you post up the pic of an oil pan removal/installation on the 4wd wagon? everything from a-z would be perfect.
in the mean time:
the manual recommeds liquid gasket part # 08718-550000 OE but could be just to get you to buy theirs...you can find a quality liquid gasket from most auto part stores...call dealer find out what's so special about it.
before applying any gasket seal I always clean all surfaces with gasoline and a cotton terry cloth towel..it cleans oil off of any surface leaving very little residue if any..works great!
1. apply liquid gasket (LG) to the oil pan gasket on both surfaces
2. apply it evenly , in a narrow bead centered on the mating surface.
3. apply LG to the inner threads of the bolt holes and to the spots on the oil pan where the crankshaft cutouts are especially the edges of the cutout see # 16 18 17 15 below
4. if you wait longer than 20 mins to reassemble any parts after applying LG you need to redue it because it would be to dry now and won't stick...needs to be tacky
5. torque the oil pan bolts to 9 lb-ft in a criss-cross pattern:
14....8....6....2....4....10....12
16..................................17
18..................................15
11....9....3....1....5....7....13
NOTE: you're going to tighten the bolt in two steps in criss cross patern...meaning first tighten them in order at 4 1/2 lb-ft and then again in another 4 1/2 lb-ft making it a total of 9 lb-ft that are required. I highly recommend to buy a quality inch pound or torque rench that just goes up to like 20 ft-lbs...I screwed up a bolt on my water pump and actually snapped it off while I was doing my timing belt change, luckily I got the rest of the bolt off. I used a torque wrench (craftsman) that went up to like 150 ft-lbs..it just wasn't sensitive enough in the 9 ft-lbs setting and didn't click when it was supposed to..I trusted it too much..don't do that mistake either ...use your instincts /judgements on how tight it's getting.
6. add the new gasket to the trasnfer case and apply LG to the mating surface on the tranny side...don't let it dry out!
7. install and torque the 4 bolts to 33 lb-ft (don't forget the dowel pins on the transfer case before you bolt it up!!)
8. install the parts that were taken out of the left side cover (using new o-rings) and lubricate the drive gear with oil before installing.
9. apply LG to the bolts for the left side cover then torque down to 33 lb-ft
10. now clean and apply liquid gasket to the other surface of the xfer case where the driveshaft goes in
11. use new o-rings and install those guts
12. no need to apply LG to those 6 bolts
13. bolt those 6 bolts down to 19 lb-ft
14. install driveshaft
if necessary, perform the following inspections (see chapter 13)
* tooth contact between the transfer driven and drive gears
* the backlash at the companion flange
* the transfer driven gear preload
* the total preload
this means that if you messed up anything, especially torque wise, we'll have to do the above which myself has to look into it also.
key words = IF NECESSARY
15. the lock nut (big nut or yoke nut) gets torqued to 87 lb-ft ( you made need special tool companion flange holder while you try to torque it down , or you can get creative)
16. driveshaft bolts are toqued to 24 lb-ft
17. try to align everything perfectly and lightly tighten it and double check everything before you torque it down.
there's a clearance checklist also if anything is off
hopefully it won't be 8)
i got the wagon back together and its running again. i defintly want a tune now.
i not test driven it yet so i dont know if there are any other issues yet.
i did take out the #4 piston and it looks still very good.
i just hope my engine isnt warped cause of the overheating.
i dont know how it will look if it is out of tolerance. but i did start it up and no smoke or anything yet.
Honestly,with all that crap and especially the bit about the big IF, still think it best to seperate them.
And I'm about to have to pull the engine and tranny out to swap the oil pan as it's got the wrong one fitted :evil:
I like the idea about shifting the pan to one side. I'll see if that is going to be possible, but from memory suspect at least one of the bolts is needing to be undone directly into the transfer housing.