Lowering Springs/Shocks, not Coil-Overs - 1st Hand Exp Here?
B18C5-EH2
Moderator
Okay my Mom wants to lower her newly-acquired 1990 Civic Wagon DX, so unlike my own 1990 Wagon with full coil-overs I want to get her some budget-minded shocks and lowering springs.
I'm set on getting KYB GR-2 shocks, and I'd love to get some Eibach Pro Kit or Tein S-Tech springs but I'm not sure how the ride height would be if I went with sedan/hatch shocks and sedan/hatch lowering springs.
I read the stickied topic through completely, and it has some good info, but it's never 100% clear as to how a wagon sits on sedan/hatch shocks and lowering springs intended for the sedan/hatch.
I'm looking for a light drop, not so harsh rates, and most importantly an even ride height as opposed to dumped or jacked up rear when compared to the front.
So the burning question I have is:
Has anyone here successfully lowered a wagon with lowering springs, not coil-overs/sleeves, and if so what exactly did you use shock/spring wise?
Thanks in advance, and yes my Mom is THE shit.
I'm set on getting KYB GR-2 shocks, and I'd love to get some Eibach Pro Kit or Tein S-Tech springs but I'm not sure how the ride height would be if I went with sedan/hatch shocks and sedan/hatch lowering springs.
I read the stickied topic through completely, and it has some good info, but it's never 100% clear as to how a wagon sits on sedan/hatch shocks and lowering springs intended for the sedan/hatch.
I'm looking for a light drop, not so harsh rates, and most importantly an even ride height as opposed to dumped or jacked up rear when compared to the front.
So the burning question I have is:
Has anyone here successfully lowered a wagon with lowering springs, not coil-overs/sleeves, and if so what exactly did you use shock/spring wise?
Thanks in advance, and yes my Mom is THE shit.
Comments
It rode good on the stockers till they blew, then the oe replacements till they blew, then the springtechs rode nicely but slightly bouncy on the big stuff.. They are now blown due to me being slammed on coilovers.. I'm fixing to go back to the Skunk2 springs and I just bought a set of Skunk2 Sport Struts... I'll let you know how they ride..
It set somewhat level at a 2" drop, but the back was a little higher than the front.. 1/2"-1"..
I was mostly worried about the front-to-back balance issue, but couldn't really get much first-hand info. I thought about getting the springtech struts for EG that have adjustable perch heights (like Koni Yellows) and pairing them with some mild lowering springs. That way, I could raise or lower the fronts or back or whatever I needed to balance it out. But... I couldn't find any info or reviews on those struts and I didn't want to shell out the dough for Konis, so I didn't go that route.
As for lowering springs, I had a set of H&R OE Sports on my old hatch, and they rocked. They definitely lowered more than the advertised 0.75", and the ride was VERY nice paired with the Koni Yellows I had on that car. It had a sway bar too, so it cornered like crazy. Going straight down the road, it was still pretty smooth unless you hit some big dips/bumps.
x2 but i doubt it was designed with friends in mind. :P
most likely they were designed as you said, cargo, just weight in general.
Previously had great experiences with DF210/KYB, so, hoping for something similar with the Skunk/KYB package.
Cheers,
Jeremy
Welcome to the site, man. Can't wait to see pics of your wagon.
Put your MOM on some KYB GR2's w/ EIBACH lowering springs. She'll
I guess I'll just have to be the fucking guinea pig and risk having an uneven ride height just to try some lowering springs on some KYB GR-2s then. It's funny that out of the 30+ wagoners here NOBODY is riding on lowering springs?
I guess I'll just eat the damn springs if they don't sit right.
Save yourself the kalua pig status. Make it easy on yourself and go with the coilovers. Megan has a pretty decent set out there, among others. The rear on my wagovan is uneven like a mofugga! Without the adjustablility of the megan's, my shit would be crazy lopsided.
I have Skunk2 springs, and Skunk2 sport shocks, rear springs have 1 dead coil cut off..
It rides about the same as a pickup truck.. It has a small bit of bounce, but only on big bumps..
I would reccomend this setup, it's great..
One coil is cut on the rear due to it sitting a little higher at the rear.. It basically even the ride out, down to a few millimeters.
So get it and try it! lol
My setup was $245 for struts, and about $140 for springs..
What if I buy shocks for a wagon, even the rears with their super low spring perch, and then buy regular lowering springs.
...then add coil-over sleevs just on the rear shocks to bring the rear up to match the front height? I'll probably have to machine the bottom of the standard lowring spring to make it sit flat on the coil-over perch, but I just might try it!
...now thw issue is finding even regular KYB shocks made for the wagon in the rear!
I don't want coil-over sleeves/shocks, and full coil-overs are too expensive for my mom's wagon. Ideally she'd cough up the dow for the same set-up I have on my own wagon, Eibach Pro Streets, but this is a bidget-minded deal since she still needs wheels, tires, clutch, a/c compressor, etc.
I'll update!
I have illumina shocks with h&r race springs on my hatch that I want to try on my wagon. I would do it this weekend but I'll be out of town, so it might be a couple days/weeks till I get around to doing it.
Because when you use rear shocks intended for a hatch/sedan coupled with hatch/sedan lowering springs the rear usually stis too high anyways, so a .5 spacer won't help that.
Evidently people cut a coil off of rear springs to try and level it out already.
Again I know this sounds like a lot of trouble when obviously coil-over sleeves on shocks would take the guess work out of the ride height, but it's my Mom's car, so it can't ride like coil-over sleeves on shocks! I don't care what anyone says coil-over sleeves on shocks doesn't ride well enough to pass the mom test.
IMO one of the best riding set-ups I've owned (besides my current wagon Eibachs, or my wife's Neuspeed/Bilsteins on her 92 hatch) was regular KYB GR-2 shocks paired with Tein S Techs on my EF hatch prior to my wagon. Man it rode like stock, sat about 1.5 inches lower, and firmd up when pushed hard because he rats were progressive. Cheap as hell too.
It's crazy how scary stock wagons ride/handle to me after owning lowered Hondas for 13 years. It's really funny to drive my wagon and then my mom's, or vice versa.
So anyway, they are spacers that fit on the spring perch and give your lowering springs a little lift. They come as a pair. I found this European site selling them for 39 Euros.
http://www.suspensionsupplies.us/
Summit Racing also carries the ST branded ones, but I can't find any details about what cars/models they carry. I would probably call/email ST directly and bug them.
http://www.stsuspensions.com/
good luck
Trust me, just get Skunk2 Sport struts and Skunk2 springs, cut one dead coil off the rear and it will ride great and be even..
1)light drop
2)Even ride height
3)Not too expensive
4)descent shx
Just get what ever shx u like ,but for a HB,CRX or Sdn(not Wgn).The shx is NOT the prob.That takes care of #4.
We're lookin in the wrong direction.We keep thinking on how to lower the rears.Why not raise the fronts.There's 2 ways to do this:
A)Take 2 shx top mounting plates & weld them together.Think of it as stacking 2 tuna cans on top of each other.This way get u about 3/4''(19mm) raise or less.You may need to cut out the center rubber mount to get it to fit(this brings me to the 2nd idea,which I'll get to in a moment)..
B)Go find a steel pipe(tube,sleeve) in the length that u want the raise or longer(1''(25mm) for a 1''(25mm) raise).Weld it to the bottom of the shx top mounting plate.Drop in a spacer (made of aluminum, rubber or polyurethane) equal to the raise u want.The top plate I.D. =4'' or 4 3/8'' I.D. if you weld to the outside. 4 1/2''I.D. might work talk to ur welder.
This takes care of light drop(#1) & even height(#2).The not too expensive will depend on you.Cheap if u do most of the work.Doesn't have look pretty.No 1 see it.Get the pieces from a junkyard.You get the idea.This solves #3.
Anyway, Install went really well for the most part, the car handles better, has better road feel, moderately more firm ride, a little harsh over rough roads. Overall I'd say it's a great setup and I'm highly pleased. The back end sits a little higher than the front, but when my kids ride with me or my friends, or if it's loaded with stuff, it works out great. I spent about $130 ish total. I'll try to attach a pic, email me for more if you need it. Hope that helps.
Sweet wagon. Love the wheels.
Could you measure the top of the fender to the center of the hub? I'd like to get a comparison of how low they actually dropped from stock.
I'll post my specs/impressions when I get all my oem bushings this week...I hope.
i like that height in the rear, just a tad lower then stock, it looks good.
Thanks for the compliment. I'll measure today and post or pm.
That's not a bad idea. The same theory with a bit less work could be simply adding a coil-over sleeve and grinding bottom of the lowering spring. I'm not handy with the welder or Id try your idea.
The other issue is that in order for that to work you'd have to get some springs that lower the car much more than mild lowering springs, which means spring rates shoot up, and ride becomes more harsh, stiffer shocks are needed, etc.
Exactly. It's the larger wheel arches that are throwing you guys off. I thought the rear was going to end up a little lower than a hatch being as a wagon is heavier and (lets face it) it probably gained more weight out the rear than in the front, but apparently that is not how it looks. Also, do you guys never haul shit in your wagon? I would honestly welcome that ride height in the rear because when there's a couple people or a 1974 honda ct70 :twisted: :shock: :P in the rear it tends to sag and the extra clearance would be nice.
Honda CT70s are frikkin awesome!! I love those little things..
Yes ur coilover would work ,but not w/Tokico's.It VOIDS the warranty.Plan ''B'' could work if you use lots of screws to bolt the sleeve to ur top.Check clearances on the outside.
A set of Eibach Sportlines should do it.Look through the ''Member's Rides'' for Wgns lowered on Aftermrkt springs to see the differences.
I am not down with cutting a coil off of a brand new spring. People call them "dead" coils yet I disagree. Why even have the extra coils at all if they serve no purpose? A progressive rate lowering spring has no dead coils because the entire spring works together to tighten up when compressed. A linear spring could be argued to have a "dead" coil, but not a progressively wound lowering spring.
I'm "listening" to you, and I appreciate the input, but I also disagree with the method. It's possible to appreciate one's effort without whole heartedly agreeing with it.
Again thanks for the suggestion.
Going with jp's idea, you could do the same using the rubber spring insulators from honda. I ordered some extra (on accident) and will try them out. I should get them today.
I hear B18's concern about cutting...I'm not big on doing things that are irreversible (why I don't have any tattoos....and well, because I am a big cowward...) As long as the front spring is able to stay secure with a modified rubber insulator stacked on a regular one, it would raise it about 1/4"-1/2". This may be a cheap solution.
Kinda off topic: With all the excitement of "extended top hats," has anyone noticed that the rear DC5/EP3 (i think those #'s are right) are already extended like 3/4" from the factory? I'd love to get some measurements to see if they would work on EFs (or EEs, rather.)
Anyone have access to either of these cars to take some measurements? OD of the tube and distance between centerpoint of the bolts?
Jeremy