Shake, rattle and roll (Now with pics)

Hi again.

Whenever I drive 40 MPH, I get a shaking and rattling in my wagon's rear end. It gets progressively worse as I get closer to 60 MPH and intolerable once I hit 80 MPH. At that speed it seems like I'm going to be ejected from my seat and the wagon will disintegrate into a million pieces.

Is this a worn down bushing issue? Or is it an alignment issue? I know it isn't the front end shaking as the steering wheel stays straight when I let it go. Or is it some whole other issue altogether?

All I know is if I were a woman, I would love to be driving my car at 70 MPH!

Comments

  • wagodizzlewagodizzle Council Member and EDM expert
    progress wrote:

    All I know is if I were a woman, I would love to be driving my car at 70 MPH!

    :lol:

    it could be your wheels need to be balanced. my friend once hit a curb and put a hell of a dent in the steelie and when ever we hit higher speeds it would literally bounce up and down... thats prolly not your issue but its worth checking.

    does your steering wheel shake at all? it could be an alignment issue, if it was the rear though the steering wheels wouldnt shake. maybe you have screwed up toe in the rear...

    and if it was a worn bushing in the rear it would prolly shake a lot as well since the moving parts would have extra travel and sliding space.

    out of all these its prolly the bushing. anyways. good luck.
  • The first thing is if you have a broken cord in your tire causing a high spot in the tread.

    Second thing to check is if the wheel is bent... especially the back part. It doesn't take much to bend/dent the back lip on a honda steely. I drove really slow for two blocks on a flat tire, and my wheel got bent back there.

    Third thing would be tire/wheel balance.
  • If you have a rt4wd (which I think you do) then it may be a combo of all the above plus a bad ujoint in your driveshaft and differential mounts that are wore out.
  • I think this car hates me! Not less than 4-5 hours after starting this thread and something happens. Luckily I was less than 10 miles from home. I had just exited the highway and was waiting for the light to turn green at the bottom of the ramp and as soon as I started to go, I hear this God awful clanking and metal on metal sound from the rear. I limp into a parking lot and get underneath the car. The propeller shaft/driveshaft thing was hanging down and touching my exhaust. I was also able to move the rear diff. This shouldn't move right? I'm guessing I broke a diff mount? A quick call to my dad and we had the car back on the road using a short piece of 2x4 and a bungie cord to keep the driveshaft up and off the exhaust. I'll try to take a pic tomorrow. I'm tired and hungry and going to bed after I eat.

    And having not looked under the car yet, other than in the parking lot, how would I go about fixing the diff mount(s)?

    Looks like I might not be able to make the HCW Philly meet this Sat. BOOO!!!!
  • Order the parts from honda. Just an fyi, I ordered them from hondaautomotiveparts.com and they only sent the upper two and cancelled the rear lower mount. I don't know why because I confirmed that the part they cancelled is still available. So you might want to order it from a local dealer or a different online dealer to make sure you get everything.

    You should be able to put it in 2wd and remove the driveshaft, diff, and rear axles and drive it. It might prematurely destroy your rear wheel bearings, but otherwise shouldn't cause any problems.
  • Order the parts from honda. Just an fyi, I ordered them from hondaautomotiveparts.com and they only sent the upper two and cancelled the rear lower mount. I don't know why because I confirmed that the part they cancelled is still available. So you might want to order it from a local dealer or a different online dealer to make sure you get everything.

    You should be able to put it in 2wd and remove the driveshaft, diff, and rear axles and drive it. It might prematurely destroy your rear wheel bearings, but otherwise shouldn't cause any problems.

    Thanks! Do you have part numbers or a link to the page on hondaautomotiveparts.com where I can find the mounts? For the life of me I couldn't find it anywhere. I must be blind!
  • All right. I was finally able to get under the wagon this morning and snapped these photos of the broken mounts.

    Passenger's side:
    1.jpg

    Driver's side:
    2.jpg

    Ghetto fix to get the car home:
    3.jpg

    Now, once I get the mounts for the diff., how easy/hard will it be to install them? Take into consideration I have no access to a lift, just some ramps, jacks and jackstands. What other tools will be needed aside from sockets and stuff?

    If anyone has done this before, would it be possible to get a write up?

    Thanks!
  • wagodizzlewagodizzle Council Member and EDM expert
    you should be fine with a socket wrench set and any old jacks. i removed an entire engine with my 40 pc. set, and simple car jacks. your biggest enemy is most likely going to be RUST. rusted bolts are worlds greatest PITA..


    good luck dude. :wink:
  • wagodizzle wrote:
    you should be fine with a socket wrench set and any old jacks. i removed an entire engine with my 40 pc. set, and simple car jacks. your biggest enemy is most likely going to be RUST. rusted bolts are worlds greatest PITA..


    good luck dude. :wink:

    Thanks wagodizzle. Should I have a plan of attack? How are they bolted up anyways? Threaded bolts to the bod/frame or bolts and nuts? Or both?
  • wagodizzlewagodizzle Council Member and EDM expert
    i have no idea about that, i only have a 2WD...

    my first plan of attack would be to clean out the area as best as you can with WD-40. then locate the bolts and/or nuts.

    most anything on our cars is pretty straight forward.
  • Ok, using the image below taken from hondaautomotiveparts.com, what exactly do I need? I'm thinking I will need parts 8, 5, 7, 14, 11, 12, 19, 10, 22, 23. Sound about right? And again, if anyone has changed out their mounts please post here how you went about doing it. Thanks!

    13SH50_B1903.gif
  • progressprogress Wagonist
    Ok, so after putting the car on ramps today, I was able to get a better look at what I thought were broken rear diff. mounts. Turns out it isn't a broken mount after all. Looks like the part of the frame where the diff. mount bolts to has rusted out or ripped out, leaving a rather large hole in it's place. See the rather large hole at top center of the image below.

    2.jpg

    So, what are my options? Seems to me I will need to have new metal welded to a: fix the hole and b: have something for the mount to bolt onto. Or can I have someone fab up a bar that the rear diff can bolt up to directly? Kind of like the way epictuning.com mounted their rear diff on their civic hatch with 4WD as shown below.

    awd12.jpg

    Either way, I think to get this wagon back on the road I will ned to have some welding done. Damn. Wish I could weld.

    Thanks for helping out!
  • wagodizzlewagodizzle Council Member and EDM expert
    i think its time you learned to weld. but with that mess you might need to have something new made to mount the mount to. such as that bar. welding new metal to rusted metal will just make more probems down the road.
  • I was going to ask what exactly broke, because I figured either the bolt rusted off or it tore it out.

    I would say that you should replace that section of the floorpan area or take out the rwd part and drive it in 2wd all the time.
  • progressprogress Wagonist
    My dad has this idea of redrilling the holes for the upper rear diff. mounts clean through to the interior of the car, then putting putting a long and strong metal plate that would connect both holes and then get some long ass bolts to bolt the mounts with. Does this sound crazy? How much do you think it would cost to weld up the rusted/ripped out mount hole?

    We were also thinking of temporarily using threaded battery hold down bolts and a metal strap and strapping up the broken rear diff. mount so it sits in it's original spot. It would be similar to the way the gas tank is strapped up. In fact one of the holes we would be using is the same rear hole that the gas tank strap uses.
  • progressprogress Wagonist
    176 views and only three people responded? I'm just looking for opinions and thoughts or any other ideas. I posted this on H-T and the 2 people who responded there suggested my dad's idea of drilling straight through up into the interior of the car and use long bolts to secure the rear diff. Anyone else? I guess I'm the only one who has had this happen to their wagon?

    Maybe if I took pictures of my hot coworkers, more people would respond... :wink:

    Oh well, we'll hopefully figure out what we're going to do this weekend.

    Thanks to those who responded.
  • jpciiijpciii familEE
    Sure, ghetto-fab it up. What do you have to lose? I'm sure it will work just fine if you do it right. Rusty Hondas are a bitch.
  • progressprogress Wagonist
    jpciii wrote:
    Sure, ghetto-fab it up. What do you have to lose? I'm sure it will work just fine if you do it right. Rusty Hondas are a bitch.

    I prefer to call it "Macguyverism". I'm guessing that's why it was sold to me at such a great deal! But hey, I got what I paid for. Even with all the problems I've had since buying it, it isn't the garbage car my wife and sister say it is.
  • SiWagonSiWagon Council Member
    progress wrote:
    We were also thinking of temporarily using threaded battery hold down bolts and a metal strap and strapping up the broken rear diff. mount so it sits in it's original spot.

    :evil: BAD idea.Too much torque.A better idea is to switch it out of the 4WD mode from in the engine compartment.There's a posting about this on here somewhere.This way you don't need to remove any of the 4WD drive parts.
    progress wrote:
    My dad has this idea of redrilling the holes for the upper rear diff. mounts clean through to the interior of the car, then putting a long and strong metal plate that would connect both holes and then get some long ass bolts to bolt the mounts with. Does this sound crazy?

    8) I like your Dad's idea.
  • progressprogress Wagonist
    SiWagon wrote:
    progress wrote:
    8) I like your Dad's idea.

    Ya, the more I think about it, the more better it seems. I guess I was worried about sullying up my interior but it will most likely be covered up anyways.

    I've read that thread before about putting it into 2 wheel drive. If I do that for now or until we can drill the body, won't it ruin my rear diff and the axles since the diff is basically hanging by 2 of the 3 mounts? What if I were to do my idea with the battery hold down bolts AND turn off the 4WD? That way the driveshaft isn't resting on the exhaust and the diff isn't just hanging there.
  • ThatDoodleThatDoodle Council Member
    I dont remember what that top mount bolts down to. is it the body of the car or a subframe? If its a subframe i can get you another.
  • SiWagonSiWagon Council Member
    "Damage"...I can't say for sure :? Here's my reasoning.Your rear diff thinks it's on a slanted road. & since there's NO power going through it.There shouldn't be a prob w/damage.You may still have noises.

    With the 4WD is disconnected.You could try your battery holddown idea since the Torque probs gone..
  • progressprogress Wagonist
    Well, we done gone and bolted the sucker up. In the damn cold too! We ended up just drilling through up into the trunk area, just behind the rear seat.

    Here are the bolts and backing plate protruding from the trunk area:
    119.jpg

    Here's a shot underneath where the bolts and another metal plate are holding the mount to the body.
    120.jpg

    Now, I turned off the 4WD as I was a bit scared as to how the repair would handle any torque from 4WD. It seems pretty solid after dring 92 miles to work this morning. Do you think tuning the 4WD back on will have a negative effect on the repair? Thanks for looking!
  • wagodizzlewagodizzle Council Member and EDM expert
    i like the fab work :)

    i guess the only way to know if the 4WD can handle it is to take it for a test drive.... be easy at first
  • How much metal is left in that area that you are using to brace? I would be worried about that metal flexing under stress and breaking. I am not there to see so you would have a better idea about this. Just my .02.
  • progressprogress Wagonist
    ragenasian wrote:
    How much metal is left in that area that you are using to brace? I would be worried about that metal flexing under stress and breaking. I am not there to see so you would have a better idea about this. Just my .02.

    If you're referring to the metal that rusted out there was still a lot left. I'm not worried about the metal flexing. The hole was about as large as the hole when you touch your pointer finger and thumb together, maybe a fraction larger.
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