I've blown 3 radiators and running out of options!

fatboyjim2236fatboyjim2236 Band Wagon
in Engine & Drivetrain
It all started last spring. My radiator had begun to leak at the bottom half plastic seam. I chocked it up to being faulty part, as i had replaced the radiator the previous year for the same concern. Unfortunately a couple months later the same thing happened again, leaking from the bottom half of the radiator. Bought a new radiator from a different company and replaced the hoses, and a couple weeks later, same leak, same spot. After some research the only thing that seemed to make sense was a faulty head gasket was letting combustion pressure into the cooling system and causing the seam to burst. So i covered all my bases. I replaced the radiator, new radiator cap, new hoses, new thermostat, new head gasket, had the head milled at a machine shop, and new water pump. Up and running November 17, 2014. Today (January 20, 2015) I go to my car and smell the coolant. Look down and its the same leak in the same spot on the bottom of the new radiator.........

I'm completely stumped at this point. I've worked on cars since i was 15 and today at 25 i'm a Ford Senior Master Tech and a Mazda Senior Certified Tech and have been a full time mechanic for 7 years, but i can't for the life of me understand why after i've replaced EVERYTHING in the cooling system why it's blowing the radiator.

I bought a Honda because in all my years of working on cars i learned that they're simple tough little cars and don't cause too much trouble. I bought a wagon because it was different from the usual crowd and it's 4WD to boot so its perfect on any terrain. I love the car, but it's being quite difficult and i don't see anyone else on this forum having the same problem.

any help would be greatly appreciated! i don't want to give up on it now, but i'm out of ideas :(
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Comments

  • greenteagodgreenteagod Moderator
    I'd hate to say throw an aluminum radiator on there as that would just be masking the problem, but that may be a course of action. Can you get a gauge on there too actually monitor the pressure? Seems like it might be good to see when it's spiking if you can.
  • Ryanthegreat1Ryanthegreat1 Wagonist
    How do the rubber bushings at the top and bottom mount points on the radiator look? Radiators don't take well to bending or flexing. Also a hose yanking on the hose barb will do bad things. Radiators are rather fragile.

    Also look at an all brass radiator. They are about the same price as the aluminum core with plastic end tank units.
  • fatboyjim2236fatboyjim2236 Band Wagon
    I've thought of that as well and i agree its just masking the problem.

    I should be able get a gauge on it tomorrow when i get it to the shop, but the radiators blown at this point so its not going to hold pressure and id hate to buy another stock radiator just to watch it break again :/
  • fatboyjim2236fatboyjim2236 Band Wagon
    The rubbers still intact on the radiator hold downs, but they are kind of a tight squeeze to get bolted down. I wonder if they're contorting the radiator?
  • greenteagodgreenteagod Moderator
    They shouldn't be, mine are snug, but they don't cause any damage. It's a possibility though. I did comment in the chat box on the main page that JHPusa.com is doing a sale on the aluminum blackworks radiators for $80. Not sure what you're getting a stock one for, and I'm not certain on the quality of the blackworks radiators, but might be worth a shot. I can't imagine a stock radiator is too much cheaper.

    http://www.jhpusa.com/store/pc/viewPrd.asp?idproduct=30216&idcategory=99

    I think with that at least if you build pressure you'd likely blow out a hose vs the radiator itself, if you're still running stock hoses. Those would likely be cheaper than replacing the radiator if something does go pop.

    But it would at least be a crutch so you could see what's going on I think.
  • fatboyjim2236fatboyjim2236 Band Wagon
    Wow that's actually a really good deal. If the reviews are good i think i'll get one of those, make sure the mounts arent too tight and go from there. Thank you guys for the feedback!
  • Ryanthegreat1Ryanthegreat1 Wagonist
    Yeah the radiator should be able to "float" in the rubber isolators.
  • fatboyjim2236fatboyjim2236 Band Wagon
    [IMG][/img]IMG_4066.jpg

    checked it this morning, the right side is really pulling down on it hard, i think that might be my issue, gonna order that aluminum one tonight and make sure i fix that mount
  • greenteagodgreenteagod Moderator
    Sweet, take some good pics of the radiator. I've been considering picking one up myself. Jhp does sales on those blackworks ones every now and again.
  • fatboyjim2236fatboyjim2236 Band Wagon
    Ordered, i'll be sure to take plenty of pics. I hope its a good part, there were a lot of mixed reviews on Blackworks Radiators in general but from the few that i saw from the CRX forums they seemed to be fine with no problems :encouragement:
  • greenteagodgreenteagod Moderator
    Yeah the reviews I saw regarding them were comparing against mishimoto and for EVOs and the reviews were a few years old as well. So it will be good to see. Looking forward to it as well =)
  • jpciiijpciii familEE
    That mount looks like it's stressing the radiator too much. That's a tight fit. I've owned a few EF's, and the radiators practically flopped around in their mounts. When you drive around over bumps, in/out of driveways, etc. and the front of the car flexes... You might simply be twisting and tearing the radiator apart. I wonder if your lower mounts are also tight fitting.
  • fatboyjim2236fatboyjim2236 Band Wagon
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    Came in the mail today. Looks really good :encouragement:
  • greenteagodgreenteagod Moderator
    Nice, I'd probably be anal and straighten as many of the fins that are slightly tweaked from shipping, as they always are, but yeah. Looks good. Do you have a framing square or anything like that to put on the end tanks and check em for straightness? I know that was a supposed concern from some reviews I saw from the 2009 time frame. Would be nice to see how straight they got those tanks.

    Nice that it came with their higher pressure cap as well, that's good. Have you done any radiator hose upgrades yet? If not, I've been rocking the mishimoto kit, and it's very very nice. I picked up some german band clamps as well, the ones that aren't cut, all the way through but just have the ridge formed in them, keeps things from biting in to the hose. I prefer them over just the stock squeeze clamps.

    Mishimoto MMHOSE-CIV-88BK is the kit, there's also a heater hose that you need as well that's sold separate if you're hooking that up.

    MMHOSE-CIV-88HH Black Heater Hose

    And the clamps I got were these: http://smile.amazon.com/gp/product/B0036R4UDC/ref=oh_aui_search_detailpage?ie=UTF8&psc=1

    For those I ordered three sizes so I'd have enough to cover everything. I think you need 4 of the big ones, 8 of the mediums and 8 of the smalls.

    Sorry for the rant, looking forward to seeing the radiator in place as I'm definitely eyeballing these myself.
  • fatboyjim2236fatboyjim2236 Band Wagon
    so after a few hours in the freezing cold it seems clear to me that this does not quite exactly fit, but that is to be expected i guess. it seems the mounting points for the fans are hitting on the frame so the radiator isn't going down far enough to seat in the mounts.

    so after a good long cry in the shower i think i may have a solution...

    i think i can simply shave the fan mounts off the bottom half of the radiator giving it enough clearance to go down and seat properly. Due to the size of the radiator i don't think the stock fans are going to fit regardless so i believe there are some slim fans i can get aftermarket that simply mount through the fins? (i'll need to shop around)

    tell me what you guys think!
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  • Ryanthegreat1Ryanthegreat1 Wagonist
    That fits like poo. Looks like the radiator cap is going to have a fight with your hood as well.
  • greenteagodgreenteagod Moderator
    Yeah I got some slim fans that zip to the radiator myself. The header I got, the stock fans wouldn't clear without smashing against it, which was irritating. So the slim ones solved that problem.

    Are those fan mounts on the front side? Mine were mounted to the back. Yeah I'd shave off that widget there at the bottom, the first pic is exactly how my radiator was sitting when I wasn't getting clearance due to the thicker fans.

    Yeah based on those pictures, there's not even supposed to be that little mounting bung there. Rat bastards, I'd knock that off for sure, that's likely the majority of the fitment problem right there.
  • fatboyjim2236fatboyjim2236 Band Wagon
    Yeah the fans mount to the backside, i think thats what im gonna do. Just shave off the nubs and get some slim fans, that should do the trick.
  • greenteagodgreenteagod Moderator
    Maybe that's why they were $80, I'd write blackworks and ask WTF.
  • jongsrjongsr Wagonist
    I have a CX racing radiator which fits exactly like this. I had to grind off that little mounting tab and even the boxed ones along the bottom of the radiator. The squared off tabs were hitting the subframe and not allowing my radiator to sit low enough also. I also grinded down the tops of the round area where the radius rod connects to avoid it rubbing the radiator at all. I haven't had problems since. I should've taken pictures but was more concerned about getting it to fit properly.
  • fatboyjim2236fatboyjim2236 Band Wagon
    jongsr Good to know! thanks for the input :encouragement:

    Do you guys have any good recommendations on slim fans?
  • greenteagodgreenteagod Moderator
    I went with Mishimoto but only because i had bought their fan shroud with fans and the thing was warped like a damn pringle. So I just took the fans out and zipped them to the radiator.

    I'd probably just nab a pair of blox from JHP though. Blox have a 1 year warranty, Mishimoto have a lifetime warranty, though they are about $20 more per.
  • jpciiijpciii familEE
    Since the OEM radiator didn't fit properly, I'm not surprised that a bulkier one would have trouble. I suspect the bottom of the front bulkhead has been pushed rearward and wasn't repaired quite right. I would remove the bumper and inspect (bumper removal is easy). A cheap way to pull it back forward again would be to use chains and/or a ratchet-strap come along winch wrapped around a tree or something.

    In other words, fix the actual root cause instead of using an elaborate band-aid approach.
  • jpciiijpciii familEE
    I just read a thread on another forum in which the same radiator had fitment issues with the fan mounting tabs... a lower radiator fan mount was misplaced, and on the AC fan side, the tabs stuck out too far. My assumption about your bulkhead being pushed back might be wrong.
  • fatboyjim2236fatboyjim2236 Band Wagon
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    grinded off the bottom tabs, installed slim fans, and she slipped in perfect. Had to improvise on the top rad hold downs but everything went on smooth. Very happy to have my wagon running again especially in this snow storm! :D
  • greenteagodgreenteagod Moderator
    Nice nice, looks like the hold downs are bolted and zip tied? Definitely something going on with the lower mounting points there, like was mentioned before. Either way, would be good to see what's going on with it once it warms up a bit and you can pull things back out.

    I hate snow.
  • fatboyjim2236fatboyjim2236 Band Wagon
    yes the zip ties are temporary for now, looks like i'll need to fab some upper mounts, but they're nice and snug for now and no leaks so far :D
  • jpciiijpciii familEE
    meh, one bolt per upper mount works just fine. You don't even need cable ties.

    You may want to shorten your upper radiator hose tho. About 2 inches off the engine end should eliminate the kink.
  • greenteagodgreenteagod Moderator
    How's the radiator holding up? Just seeing if there's any status update. Hopefully all is well.
  • fatboyjim2236fatboyjim2236 Band Wagon
    Radiators held up great!
    Unfortunately i lost compression on cylinder 3 about 2 weeks ago. Sold it last night. It was fun while it lasted 😕
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