y8/a6 to z6/a6 mini me questions
skittlenips
Wagonist
So, my daily driver took a crap on me last week. Had a y8/a6 mini me swap in it, pretty sure something in the head failed, accompanied by some overheating...or it just overheated. Either way, the block seemed to be in good condition still, so I decided to swap out the head, which was on its way out either way. I went with a z6 head this time around.
Did the head swap...new gaskets, new head (resurfaced, pressure checked, etc.), new (z6) distributor. Anyway, got it all put together, and I can't get the car to fire. It turns over fine, fuel pump is priming and I'm pretty sure fuel is getting to the cylinders (can smell gas). Just doesn't seem to want to fire. Here's my troubleshooting so far:
-Have double and triple checked the mechanical timing (using a long screwdriver in cylinder #1, rather than just relying on the timing marks for TDC). Seems to be good.
-Checked distributor wiring - all the wire colors match up perfectly on the two grey distributor plugs/connectors, leading me to believe that I was in fact running an obd1 distributor on the y8 head (rather than an obd2 y8 distributor, been a while since I did the swap so I can't remember 100%). Rywire conversion harness was used for all the obd0 to obd1 wiring.
-Ignition cables for cylinders #1, 2 and 3 are sparking (using ghetto method of holding cable next to a ground to check)...couldn't get #4 to spark to ground??
-Spark plugs are good, worked in another motor
I'm at a bit of a loss...my guesses as to what could be wrong are:
-Timing is still way off...although I don't know how. Was told that the distributor will only mount into the head/cam 1 way, so there's no way the ignition timing could be off 180 deg.
-I'm not getting any compression (possibly from block?) - planning on compression checking ASAP
-Something is wrong with the wiring. Possibly i was actually using a y8 obd2 distributor to begin with? Figured it would have not plugged right up if this was the case. The electrical stuff is a bit out of my comfort zone...I know rywire asks you to specify what kind of distributor you're getting when you order the harness, but I don't know how to verify which one I got, or how to verify what kind of distributor I had on the y8 head. Also not sure what would cause 3 ignition cables to fire but not 1 of them. Maybe I just picked up a bad z6 distributor?? Could I possibly swap the internals over from the old dizzy into this one?
Anyway, some help getting this figured out would be much appreciated. I know there's a lot of you guys out there with a lot of experience with all these funky d-series swaps. Hope I did a decent job explaining the problem...I'll update when I manage to check the compression.
Thanks!
Did the head swap...new gaskets, new head (resurfaced, pressure checked, etc.), new (z6) distributor. Anyway, got it all put together, and I can't get the car to fire. It turns over fine, fuel pump is priming and I'm pretty sure fuel is getting to the cylinders (can smell gas). Just doesn't seem to want to fire. Here's my troubleshooting so far:
-Have double and triple checked the mechanical timing (using a long screwdriver in cylinder #1, rather than just relying on the timing marks for TDC). Seems to be good.
-Checked distributor wiring - all the wire colors match up perfectly on the two grey distributor plugs/connectors, leading me to believe that I was in fact running an obd1 distributor on the y8 head (rather than an obd2 y8 distributor, been a while since I did the swap so I can't remember 100%). Rywire conversion harness was used for all the obd0 to obd1 wiring.
-Ignition cables for cylinders #1, 2 and 3 are sparking (using ghetto method of holding cable next to a ground to check)...couldn't get #4 to spark to ground??
-Spark plugs are good, worked in another motor
I'm at a bit of a loss...my guesses as to what could be wrong are:
-Timing is still way off...although I don't know how. Was told that the distributor will only mount into the head/cam 1 way, so there's no way the ignition timing could be off 180 deg.
-I'm not getting any compression (possibly from block?) - planning on compression checking ASAP
-Something is wrong with the wiring. Possibly i was actually using a y8 obd2 distributor to begin with? Figured it would have not plugged right up if this was the case. The electrical stuff is a bit out of my comfort zone...I know rywire asks you to specify what kind of distributor you're getting when you order the harness, but I don't know how to verify which one I got, or how to verify what kind of distributor I had on the y8 head. Also not sure what would cause 3 ignition cables to fire but not 1 of them. Maybe I just picked up a bad z6 distributor?? Could I possibly swap the internals over from the old dizzy into this one?
Anyway, some help getting this figured out would be much appreciated. I know there's a lot of you guys out there with a lot of experience with all these funky d-series swaps. Hope I did a decent job explaining the problem...I'll update when I manage to check the compression.
Thanks!
Comments
I double and triple checked the timing. Everything was looking good. Double checked all the wiring, everything was good (I believe I was running a d15 distributor on the old y8 head - makes the whole y8 mini-me swap easier because you don't have to use an obd2 distributor, and definitely makes going from a z6/a6 to y8/a6 or vice versa a little less of a headache...everything plugs right in).
Annnyyway, after dealing with the headache of using a rental compression tester from Oreilleys, which was reading pretty much zero in all pistons and not sealing in the head, I just broke down and bought one. Side rant: I would recommend NEVER using one of their rentals. They charge you 40 bucks for the rental, and the gauge does not come with any adapters or the extension piece that makes our OHC motors so much easier to test. They're huge pieces of shit. They sell a full kit with extension for 50 bucks - this is what you want.
Compression tested all cylinder #1: ~90psi. Added a tid bit of oil, compression tested again, ~160-180psi. At this point I'm thinking "damn my piston rings are screwed." Compression test the other cylinders: 90psi, 90psi, and 100psi, for cylinders #2, 3 and 4, respectively. Thought it was a bit odd that my compression would be off by such a similar amount on all cylinders.
At this point I'm thinking "hey what the hell" and decide to just add a bit of oil to each cylinder and try to fire it up. SUCCESS! The motor fires up, runs a bit rough at first and is burning all of that oil out of the cylinders, smoking like a chimney. But pretty soon it evens out and seems to be running normal, even after all the oil is burnt out of the cylinders I still don't feel like I lost any compression.
So, today I'm going to try and fire her up again after I get back from work, without adding any oil to the cylinders. Hopefully I don't have any issues....if I don't I'm going to compression check the cylinders again at operating temp to see if its a bit more normal. If she won't start, I'm thinking the piston rings are definitely bad, but not so bad they can't hold compression when oiled.
I don't think I'd really be able to explain what was going on if I have no issues today...thinking maybe there's a chance the rings just needed to "re-set" or something. Will update soon...
One was terminusvox' wagon, and the other my wife's DelSol. Both had been cranked and moved a few feet, then shutdown. Neither of them would fire the next day, no compression! The nearest explanation I could come up with is that the rings were "washed" with gas..basically flooded by the ecu when enriching the mixture for cold-start. Clean plugs and a squirt of oil in each hole fixed both. (After much headscratching)
also, a coworkers EK gas-fouled the plugs every day until I repaired the wiring at the coolant temp sensor. Similar problem. ECU thought it was cold all the time and overfueled to compensate.
I definitely did my fair share of headscratching, cursing, and cigarette smoking trying to figure this all out. Crossing my fingers for a strong start this afternoon when I get off work! Hearing your experience with this makes me a bit more confident...
1. Timing belt is a bit too long. Can't get it tensioned properly since the block and head have both been decked at this point. Going to pick up a d15z1 timing belt, which is 1 tooth shorter than the z6/y8 timing belt, should fix my problem. Pretty sure this is typically used on a "true" mini me setup (d15 block and d16 head).
2. Need a new vtec solenoid gasket, leaking some oil from there.
Woop woop
So frustrated with this motor and having to borrow my friends car to get to work. Going to make sure it wasn't just the timing belt slipping or something simple like that...if it was, may have to trade this guy my wagon for his pretty clean, but super slow EF sedan. Can't deal with not having a daily driver anymore and I've already got too many damn projects!
:miserable:
Also forgot to mention that the car kept stalling out when I depressed the clutch during the test drive. Thought it might be the TPS sensor but I'm not getting any CELs.
If anyone has any advice for troubleshooting this problem it would be much appreciated!
Did some troubleshooting, but I don't think I'm any less confused...
Compression check: cyls 1-4 are 0, 40, 120, 120, respectively. Tried adding some oil, no better. Bad head gasket? Radiator doesn't spew fluid when cranking, nor does my oil look contaminated (it's dirty, but normal dirty color).
Checked for spark by putting ignition cables next to ground...can't seem to get any spark. Inspected rotor, it's intact and in place. I'm not too good with the electrical side of things would definitely appreciate some help troubleshooting the sparking.
I'm beginning to think this motor is cursed with some unrelated issues now.
EDIT: I'm now getting a TDC sensor CEL. That might explain the lack of spark?
Bad news: Car still won't start. Found out that I can't hand crank the engine over. It seizes up at a certain point...however it will crank over with the starter. WTF?? Bent rod maybe? Damn!
Anyway, now I'm back to square one, hahaha.