White Smoke, Leaking Drain Bolt, Cooling fans not turning on

Hey guys & gals,

Original post is just jumbled...

My problems are:
1.)Leaking around oil drain bolt
2.)White smoke from tail pipe
3.)Losing Radiator fluid
4.)Both Radiator fans never turn on even after blasting the heater for 15-20 min.
5.)No money to buy oil now till Friday. =/

What I'm planning to do:::Questions Regarding
1.)Replace oil pan w/bolt:::Would any D15/16 Pan/bolt work?
2.)Have no idea what to do about the white smoke.
3.)Buy aluminum 1/2 size Raddy w/ hoses:::My car is Automatic. Not worrying about mounting position but can I use a manual one on my wag?
4.)Buy aftermarket Fan:::Is there a way to always have it on?

What I did to confirm these symptoms
1.)After idling for 20min w/heater on 4 I saw oil buildup right around the drain bolt.
2.)After idling for 20min w/heater on 4 then revving to 2k rpms white smoke was clearly visible It's warm out.
3.)I filled yesterday and today is empty before I started the warming session
4.)After idling for 20min w/heater on 4 then revving to 2k rpms fans never turned on

Please help? Am I on track??

Comments

  • wagonef8wagonef8 Wagonist
    Sounds like you got a blown head gasket
  • psud3itypsud3ity New Wagonist
    I hate to agree with wagonef8, but mystery loss of coolant with no apparent coolant leak is generally a sign of a blown headgasket.

    As to why your fans aren't turning on, I'm sure there is a fan switch somewhere on these cars. Generally it's near or on the thermostat housing. When you disconnect that key on engine off, if you jump the two pins on the fan switch connector on the wiring harness, it should send your fans spinning. Easy way to test and make sure your fans do in fact work. If the car hits half temp and the fan switch doesn't turn the fans on, well, it's time to replace that.

    Also a good idea to make sure your thermostat is opening and working properly. A thermostat that's stuck closed can be bad news.

    I'd suggest also checking your radiator, the coolant should appear like coolant, not milky brown indicating it's mixing with oil. Headgaskets can blow in other places besides between a coolant/oil passage however, and if you're experiencing a loss of power, a leak down/compression test would be advised. If while doing the leakdown test you have bubbles in your radiator, yeah, there's you're coolant loss right there.
  • JeebuzJeebuz New Wagonist
    Deff. could be, Funny thing is the white smoke recently started and I constantly watch my temp gauge and I havent over heated in a good 2 weeks or more. OF course I dont give it a chance to hit Red..

    There is no loss in power, its still the mild 92hp it is, but my radiator has Anti-Freeze mixed with water and instead of just 50/50 anti-Freeze.(yeah fml I know please dont flame me, I wanted to start fresh with new raddy to have only Anti-Freeze on it.)

    But I have heard boiling bubbles in my reservoir tank after driving almost constantly. I was starting to blame the fans for not kicking in. I changed my Radiator cap and it kind of helped. I never thought about the thermostat because it did not constantly overheat and fans werent running so I blindly blamed it on that.
  • sofastsofast New Wagonist
    Before you drop money into these other things you should address your problem first. pull your dipstick. If it looks like yoo-hoo you have a bad headgasket. Also pull the plugs and give them a visual. peek down the cylinder holes to check if there is antifreeze in there
  • pdcpdc Band Wagon
    Your symptoms are almost definitely a blown head gasket. Does your top radiator hose feel "tight" as in overly pressurized?

    Bubbles in the overflow also almost definitely means blown head gasket.
  • JeebuzJeebuz New Wagonist
    it surges with pressure like a heart beat after riding for 30 min+. But it does not feel like its bulging about to pop.
  • pdcpdc Band Wagon
    Get a head gasket and get the head surfaced and adjust the valves when it's off. The whole job can be done (not including machine shop time) in a half day. Also a perfect time to do the timing belt/water pump if it's been a while.
  • JeebuzJeebuz New Wagonist
    I'd love to but I've never done such thing. The most I've done is install suspension, I'd have to take this to a shop but if it costs about the same I rather ride the bus wait about two weeks and get a d16z6 with auto ecu. =S
  • pdcpdc Band Wagon
    If your handy, get a manual and follow the steps. Get help here or on youtube. It's not that hard really. Just take a step at a time. You'll gain great confidence after successfully doing it. It might cost $200 including machine shop.
  • JeebuzJeebuz New Wagonist
    really? $200 is not bad at all! I have the haynes manual, But i honestly dont know where to start? What do I do. It's all going down on sunday. So I have time to get mentally ready. Do I still need oil pan? new raddy and hoses. I prefer to do the timing belt and water pump like you said..

    ***Edit***
    Could I make it as simple as taking the head off and replacing the gasket then putting the head back on? Then just changing my oil pan for another d15 oil pan at a junkyard. figuring out a way to always have the fans on? and changing timing belt and water pump without having to take out engine? If i could do it that simple I'd down. I just dont want to completely jump into the unknown when i really need this car to get to work =/
  • black_89gtblack_89gt Wagonist
    It really isn't that hard. I had to do it recently and hadn't done any engine work before. The main thing you will need to know is the timing, do not mess that up. Take your time and it is a simple process. As far as changing the timing belt you do not have to remove the engine. Just remove the driver side wheel and the fender liners and you can see the crankshaft pulley. That is the part that will take the most work to get off as it is torqued on and has a special nut on there to keep it from spinning loose.

    If you are going to take the head off, it is best to take it to a machine shop and get them to make sure it is level and not warped so that it mates up to the block correctly.

    Simple breakdown of how to do it:
    1. Remove valve cover and upper timing belt cover
    2. loosen timing belt by using the adjustment screw (just above and to the right of the crank pulley)
    3. loosen header (i found it easier to just remove it)
    4. loosen intake manifold (there is a bracket going from block to this, I loosened the bracket at the block)
    5. remove dizzy
    6. loosen head bolts (do in correct order and not loosen the bolt completely, do in steps)
    7. remove head from engine and take to shop
    8. clean off mating surface and remove gasket residue on block/head
    9. add new gaskets and install in reverse order
    *these steps may be out of order, and I am no mechanic, so I could have missed a few steps.

    Do your research before attempting it to make sure you are ready to complete this if you are hesitant to complete the job. Makes it go alot smoother.

    Oh, and good luck!
  • JeebuzJeebuz New Wagonist
    awesome man thanks! In fear of a machine shop is it highly likely It got warped? This "for nubs" list is exactly what I need. May I possibly tomorrow open up my valve cover and visually inspect the valve train? Despite the smoke It's just hard to believe its a blown HG. I'll check for sludge and stuff like that inside. But thanks everyone for your help and input! I'll do my studying at work tomorrow.
  • psud3itypsud3ity New Wagonist
    Machine shop can fix warped head. It's not that bad...

    If you're feeling especially ballsy:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1992-1995-Honda ... 6e&vxp=mtr

    Pick yourself up a Z6 head and vtec solenoid and make yourself a mini-me. Because VTEC yo.

    You'd want to do a bunch of research and know what's involved in the swap, but... VTEC yo.
  • psud3ity wrote:
    Machine shop can fix warped head. It's not that bad...

    If you're feeling especially ballsy:

    http://www.ebay.com/itm/1992-1995-Honda ... 6e&vxp=mtr

    Pick yourself up a Z6 head and vtec solenoid and make yourself a mini-me. Because VTEC yo.

    You'd want to do a bunch of research and know what's involved in the swap, but... VTEC yo.
    That head is missing several parts, hence the 6hrs left and only $34 bid on it..... The seller lists a bunch that it's missing, but from the pic you can tell several more important pieces are missing, like one of the Lost Motion Assemblies, and the entire bracket that holds the LMA's in place....
  • JeebuzJeebuz New Wagonist
    I wouldnt put a z6 head on my d15. I plan to full on swap for a z6 hopefully in the next month.

    Today my gf lent me some money and helped me drain all my oil and it looked nice. no sludge at all whatsoever.

    I wrapped the drain bolt with teflon tape twice and tightened it nice and firm but not ultra strength.

    The I put JBWeld all around the bolt =]

    I filled my engine with "Quacker State" as the guy at autozone called it. and Used a "Ticker" 10w40.

    also swapped the filter.

    Filled up the raddy with h20 for NOW until i get replacment parts. I started my wag with the raddy cap off and no bubbles. and revved a little and no bubbles.... Still there is a sweet smoky smoke coming outthe tailpipe. Fans still dont turn on I check fuse box in engine bay and under driver dash and theyre both good.
    No power loss still. I'm starting to doubt its a full on headgasket failure but its not out of the question because of the smoke. IF no oil leaks that problem is fixed and I'll just wait and see what happens to my h20 in raddy. maybe its a hose or something. I'd totally fix this engine to 100% health but I'm not planning on keeping it and very soon go z6. This will do for now. im keeping her under 3k though.

    For now Thank you all very much for your help. You've definitely convinced me I should try and learn my stuff =]

    I looked up how to adjust valves. looks like fun!!!

    Thank you very much!!!
  • black_89gtblack_89gt Wagonist
    fml...first double post
  • black_89gtblack_89gt Wagonist
    I was in the same boat you are when my head bent a valve, I definitely enjoyed pulling everything apart and putting it back together (other than not having all the tools I needed). I would become a mechanic, but I don't like being dirty all the time and in 6 months I'll have my degree in engineering lol, so I'll just do it on the side
  • mtbikerTimtbikerTi Band Wagon
    If your drain bolt is leaking change the gasket. The nylon gaskets are only good for a few oil changes. I prefer a copper gasket because they last longer (~60,000 miles on mine so far).
  • JeebuzJeebuz New Wagonist
    mtbikerTi wrote:
    If your drain bolt is leaking change the gasket. The nylon gaskets are only good for a few oil changes. I prefer a copper gasket because they last longer (~60,000 miles on mine so far).

    Nice heads up! I'll keep that in mind when swap the oil pan. I JBwelded my oil drain bolt and it stopped the leaking completely, Still loosing coolant but my car does not smoke anymore? Fan finally turns on????? Geez whats going on?!

    One thing I did notice is that I might of put too much oil FML!
    I checked my dipstick today in the morning and it was about 1/2 inch above the top circle.
    I know! If its not one thing its another, and my drain bolt is JB welded. I could break free but I just finished it and finally no leaks. =/ Oil is still golden clear and no sludge inside VC
  • pdcpdc Band Wagon
    Your coolant may be in your oil and that's why it's high. If your loosing coolant and it's not dripping on the ground, it's going through the exhaust or into your oil. Bad head gasket.
  • JeebuzJeebuz New Wagonist
    Since I'm starting with the DPFI to MPFI. I think I'll break my jb weld drain oil, replace pan, take off head when I take off my IM and Exhaust Mani, and just do the damn HG! I'll take pictures! well my gf will. Planning to do this on my next next day off i dont get paid till monday. =/ Not enough time to be a noob. I'll read up on DIY's.
  • psud3itypsud3ity New Wagonist
    Jeebuz wrote:
    Since I'm starting with the DPFI to MPFI. I think I'll break my jb weld drain oil, replace pan, take off head when I take off my IM and Exhaust Mani, and just do the damn HG! I'll take pictures! well my gf will. Planning to do this on my next next day off i dont get paid till monday. =/ Not enough time to be a noob. I'll read up on DIY's.

    It's not that hard considering how simple these motors are. Remember to allow time for the machine shop to check the head and do any work necessary.

    Make sure you buy new head bolts, as your old ones should go directly into the garbage can. You may also want to switch to ARP head studs, as they can be reused in case you ever have this issue again.

    While the head is off, timing belt and water pump need replacing as well.
  • bikewrenchbikewrench Wagonist
    I would do a compression test before you go ripping the head off. You should be able to get a loaner from autozone (with deposit). And there are instructions in your Haynes manual. It's easy to do and if you have good compression numbers, you probably don't have a bad head gasket.
  • bikewrench wrote:
    I would do a compression test before you go ripping the head off. You should be able to get a loaner from autozone (with deposit). And there are instructions in your Haynes manual. It's easy to do and if you have good compression numbers, you probably don't have a bad head gasket.

    On more than one occasion, I've seen bad head gaskets with "good" compression numbers. By "good," I mean within the guidelines. It is possible to have a blown head gasket that isn't SEVERELY blown, and will give you decent compression numbers, but still will cause a slow loss of coolant.

    If you are REALLY planning on putting a Z6 swap in within the next MONTH, then my suggestion would be, "Fuck it." just keep topping off the radiator every day for a month until you get your full swap in.

    However, I too have a habit of saying "in a month" and it really turns out to be "in a year." In that case, I suggest you go ahead and get this motor sorted out, so you have something reliable to drive. In the end, even if you don't need to drive it that long, it could be worth it to you to spend a little money on this motor, and fix it yourself, and learn as you go. Sometimes the best way to learn about how something works is to take it apart and fix it. Kind of like when I was a kid, I would take stuff apart to figure out how it works. Only now, I actually try to put it back together!

    That said, if you are going to do a head gasket job, there are a few things you don't want to leave out. Just like others have said, take the head to a machine shop and have it checked/resurfaced. If it ever overheated AT ALL, there is a chance the surface is warped. 99% of the time, a blown head gasket is caused by overheating, so chances are, it's warped. IF you don't get it resurfaced, and it is warped, it will blow out again. Maybe a week, maybe 6 months. Who knows.

    Same thing with head bolts. They stretch, they twist, they won't maintain the correct torque specs. If you want it to last, get a set of new ones.

    Usually, when you take off the head, you end up removing the crank pulley / timing belt. It is possible to do it without removing them, since the crank pulley can be a pain in the ass. But if you DO remove them, ya might as well replace the timing belt and water pump. It will save you another headache in the event that you drive on this motor for a while longer. It would really suck to get it all back together and have the water pump fail on you in 2 months....

    One more bit of advice, a lot of people prefer to use the Head gasket from the D16Z6 (from 92-95 Civic EX / Si, 93-95 del Sol Si) because it is a multi-layered steel head gasket (which in theory is stronger) instead of the older D15B2 gasket which is some kind of cardboard-like material.

    Also, make sure you have a torque wrench and know how to use it. Find the torque specs fot eh head bolts and torque them down in the correct pattern and in steps, for example, torque them to 25 ft-lbs, then 35, then 43, or whatever the service manual says to do.

    Here's a general breakdown of the cost of parts...

    Z6 Head gasket: ~$40
    Head resurfaced at machine shop: ~$50 - $75
    OEM Head bolts from dealership: ~$50 - $65
    Timing belt: ~$30
    Water pump: ~$30
    Coolant, oil, gasket sealer for valve cover and water pump, misc supplies: ~$50 - $60

    So figure on about $250 - $300 for a full on, solid head gasket job, with new water pump and timing belt.
  • JeebuzJeebuz New Wagonist
    Aintgotnosol your right man, I need to learn. Today I'm supposes to finally get paid so I was going to rip off all the AC stuff (It dont work and compressor is blocking my dying radiator) and Rip out my Radiator and order a manual half wide aluminum raddy with a new fan. and automatic transmission cooler which is not that expensive at autozone. I want to take care of that part first to rule it out, It might be the same radiator from 1988 the fins are all damaged and super dirty, the ac compressor is worse. I'll also change the thermostat because I'm still hearing boiling water in the my reservoir tank and I'm so sure its because its not staying cool. unless somehow Blown head gasket causes boiling water. I will surely change the headgasket soon instead of going around the problem, and I am considering putting arp headstuds if they even make them for the d15b2. I have a torque wrench that is 3/8 drive and it measures in inches instead of pounds but its as simple as dividing the required ft lbs tq into inches.

    I dont have access to a air compressor, so my best bet was this electric impact wrench on ebay from "kawasaki" brand but I read some reviews and it dont look good. plus its a great tool im willing to invest on. Could I pull apart that crank pulley with 1/2 drive electric impact wrench in the $100-140 range?
    ****EDIT***

    Forget that part about the impact wrench, I'm just going to save my pennies and get a compressor first. and a impact wrench gun =] did my research
  • 1. What's this about a half-size radiator from a manual wagon? I have an 89 RT Manual and mine has a full-size radiator. Perhaps mine is an oddball, but I've never noticed half-sized radiators in any 88-91 civic.

    2. About the impact gun / compressor idea. This may or may not work for the crank pulley. I have gotten a few of them off with a really nice impact gun that my dad has. And then there were a few I just could NOT get off with it. Sometimes (especially if it's never been removed before) It can be a real bitch. The last two I did, i had to take them to a shop. The biggest gun they had wouldn't do it. They usually have to get the acetylene torch and heat up the bolt til its red hot and then hit it with the impact gun. I usually do my best to get it done at home, and if I can't, I'll drive it up to a shop, have them break it loose and just snug it back up so it won't fall off on the way back home.

    3. the Boiling water sound you hear could be from a few things. It could literally just be air bubbles blowing past the head gasket into the cooling system and then out through the overflow, or it could be that the system won't hold enough pressure in general, due to a leak / loss of coolant. When the system is under pressure, it raises the boiling point of water. Drop the pressure, the boiling point comes back down. I suppose it could be the thermostat, but I would imagine if your thermostat won't open, then you would overheat. Go ahead and change the thermostat, since it's not expensive and not hard to do, see if that helps any.

    Props to you for having the will to jump in and learn with your hands!
  • JeebuzJeebuz New Wagonist
    The half size radiator thing is something I personally want to clean up the engine bay and to hopefully get better cooling. But ill get a universal aluminum half size raddy and then ill get a auto Tranny cooler. New fan. I hate to say but I'm forced to try this myself because I don't have funds to.throw around for other people. But its all good, if i do it with my own hands ill never forget how to
  • JeebuzJeebuz New Wagonist
    The half size radiator thing is something I personally want to clean up the engine bay and to hopefully get better cooling. But ill get a universal aluminum half size raddy and then ill get a auto Tranny cooler. New fan. I hate to say but I'm forced to try this myself because I don't have funds to.throw around for other people. But its all good, if i do it with my own hands ill never forget how to
Sign In or Register to comment.