D16 stroker guestion

rex freymondrex freymond Band Wagon
in Engine & Drivetrain
i was wondering if anyone that has built a d16 with a d17 crank has tried to put a b18 pulley . i know the pulley fits the crank and it has three pulleys but i dont know if the pulleys line up with the alt p/s and a/c . also i was wondering if anyone has taken a d16 and a d17 oil pump apart to see if you can swap the internal parts to fit the d17 crank

Comments

  • JakerJaker familEE
    It's not just the pump internals that are different. The bore for the crankshaft oil seal (part of the oil pump housing) is larger as well. Why not use the D17 crank pulley and oil pump? Better yet, why not just have your D17 crank ground down to fit the D16 oil pump, crank pulley and oil seal?
  • rex freymondrex freymond Band Wagon
    i was mostly wondering about the b18 pulley because it has three pulleys and i know the bore and the keyway matche the d17 crank because i was doing a t belt on a 2002 civic and i put the b18 pulley on and it worked . i think if it works it could solve alot of problems for other people . i will be buying a d17 short block next week and i already have a bunch of d16 and b18 parts . so i will do some research . my goal is to build a d16a6 stroker that looks stock for my 91 4wd wagon and i want everything to work . i am going to use vitara pistons that will be cut down .030 and the block decked as little as possible .
  • danzdanz Wagonist
    low comp vitara stroker that look stock? i would understand if u were boosting it, but then u say u want it to look stock?

    whats the plan?
  • miniwhlminiwhl Band Wagon
    I'm doing a similar project, but with a ZC block. The Vitara pistons are SOOO Tempting because of the cost and durability. I'm using them mostly because I want to Turbo my ZC later, and don't want to have to re-do the lower end. If I end up with 9:1 CR, then a low boost Turbo wouldn't be bad to add on later. I'm going to use all the d-17 parts I can, but my question is about the oil pump. Is the ZC pump the same as the d-17 pump, except for the snout size? Or does the profile of the housing not fit. I don't have all the ZC parts to compare, so I'm going to have to listen to danz for advice. For rex freymond I would suggest the same. He has answered all my questions and was right about each issue. Thanks again danz!
  • rex freymondrex freymond Band Wagon
    i am going to use vitara pistons because i might boost it later . and you can still get 9.5 to 1 with a little work . the real thing i want to find out about is the b18 pulley and the oil pump internals . i was looking at a d17 seal and it looks like the only thing diffrent is the inside diameter bigger . hopefully i can make it to my friends shop this week to pick up a d17 short block . then i can figure all these things out for my self . and why is it that every time i ask a question insted of an answer i get a question about somthing un related .
  • miniwhlminiwhl Band Wagon
    Sorry man, I didn't mean to hijack your post, I just thought I'd bring up some related issues about a similar combination of parts. I'm trying to avoid machine work if I can, and so far plan to use the d-17 pulley, unless the grooves are different.
  • danzdanz Wagonist
    rex freymond wrote:
    why is it that every time i ask a question insted of an answer i get a question about somthing un related .

    why is it that you ask questions instead of finding out answers for yourself?

    :roll:

    sounds like u want someone to do your home work for you.
  • turbo_tegturbo_teg Council Member
    wheres kyle when ya need him
  • kylerwhokylerwho Wagonist
    matt are you refering to me?

    no the b18 pulley will not work. it extends out to far for the alternator pulley.

    the real problem is that the pulley contains more weight to offset the frequency produced from the b18 crank.

    if your trying to keep a stock look than machine the ends of the d17 crank so that it will work inside the a6 oil pump.
    the d17 oil pump has a hole for a dipstick so you will end up running 2 dipsticks.

    also the rt4wd oil pan will not work with the d17 oil pump.

    i have been doing this mad research on mismatched parts for awhile now.
  • danzdanz Wagonist
    kylerwho wrote:
    the d17 oil pump has a hole for a dipstick so you will end up running 2 dipsticks.


    d17 has the dip stick at the rear (intake side) of the block not the oil pump tho. i got a D17A1 pump on my SOHC ZC block right now using the stock dip stick location between exhaust runners 2 and 3.
  • kylerwhokylerwho Wagonist
    oh. i have parts scattered all about and i could have swore the dipstick was coming out of the front.
  • woodiwoodi Wagonist
    miniwhl wrote:
    I'm doing a similar project, but with a ZC block. The Vitara pistons are SOOO Tempting because of the cost and durability. I'm using them mostly because I want to Turbo my ZC later, and don't want to have to re-do the lower end. If I end up with 9:1 CR, then a low boost Turbo wouldn't be bad to add on later. I'm going to use all the d-17 parts I can, but my question is about the oil pump. Is the ZC pump the same as the d-17 pump, except for the snout size? Or does the profile of the housing not fit. I don't have all the ZC parts to compare, so I'm going to have to listen to danz for advice. For rex freymond I would suggest the same. He has answered all my questions and was right about each issue. Thanks again danz!

    I'll be interested to hear how this build turns out. If you post a build thread somewhere make sure to link it here. I was thinking about trying that same thing. As to the the Vitara's in the stroker ZC a quick run on the compression calculator gives me 7.87:1 CR with the pistons sticking 0.020 out the hole. Are you planning on skimming the head down a lot to boost that CR? What I was thinking for the build was the PMS-A00 GX pistons which would yield around a 9.78:1 CR or the stock D17A2 plus skimming the block .03 to bring them up to deck height you are looking at 8.68:1 which still seems a bit low but not bad if you plan to boost...maybe take a little off the head too...though I dunno what you'd be running into with valve interferences doing that kinda work.

    I'm pretty new to engine building so if I'm way off with any of my ideas there feel free to tell me. Just going off all the stuff I've read on the subject recently.
  • miniwhlminiwhl Band Wagon
    Since I haven't been able to determine the actual size of the dish in the Vitara piston, I'm guessing what the CR will be. Have had no time to dummy up the rotating assembly to see how much the tops of the pistons need to be cut, but the rough dimensions I've found indicate the piston will be 29mm from pin to crown. Haven't found the same number for the d-17, but I think it's about 27mm. They say the d-17 piston sets down in the hole some, so I don't know all the numbers yet. I plan to cut the pistons so they are flush with the top of the deck and use the head gasket height for the deck clearance. Yes, I will be cutting the head. I have 2 heads, so the first one will be cut a lot for NA use, probably .040 to .070. This will have no ill effects on valve clearance, since I plan to use stock ZC cams and the Vitara pistons have large cutouts for valve clearance. I've cut Honda heads as much as .100 in the past and had no warping issues, so I'm not concerned about that. I'm looking for about 9:1 or 9.5 maybe, so if and when I go Turbo, I'll have to use my second head, which I ported for a race car last year, but it never got used. I've already got the block and Vitara pistons and am sending the block off for boring and honing soon. The pistons are 76mm, so the total displacement will be 1715cc with the d-17 crank. I'm looking for torque for my Wagovan (or RT4WD for the nit-pickers) to pull my CRX home from the track if I break something. I'll probably drive to the track, but sometimes you can drive there, but not home. That's a good time to have a tow vehicle, just a note from personal experience.
  • woodiwoodi Wagonist
    That sounds like a good plan. I will be definitely interested to see what you put down for low end torque in the end. I have an RT4WD as well and really feel like that's what these cars need especially for folks like us that intend to tow with them and load them up not use them as track cars.

    I ran your numbers through the D-series calculator here for my own interest. Looks like you are definitely right on track. It looked to me like you should only need to shave about 0.5mm off those vitara pistons to drop them to deck level (according to the calculator). Then with the 76mm bore and .07in shaved off the head (and my rough calculation to compensate for some of the dish lost by the 0.5mm piston shave) with a .037 thick head gasket your at 9.08:1. So you seem to be right on with what you are thinking. Sounds like it should be a great build for the RT.
  • kylerwhokylerwho Wagonist
    should search for a supercharger to add for more low end power.

    the y8 is the oil pump with the dipstick in the front.
  • miniwhlminiwhl Band Wagon
    woodi, Thanks for the encouragement. Where did you get the d-series calculator you talk about? Is it a program from someone? I am having to estimate from rough figures found at random on the Interweb. As this car will be my daily driver for an average of 80 miles a day, I can't get too crazy with supercharger, boost, etc., or I can't afford to drive to work.

    So far, the advice I (and others) have gotten from danz has been right on, but I haven't found his original thread for the build. I may give up on the "No Machine Work" concept and grind down the snout of the d-17 crank to use the ZC timing gears, oil pump and pan. I believe he says that the ZC oil pan is the same as the RT4WD pan. If so, this would make the project easier, as I have no pan from the ZC (got it as a bare block and complete head)

    Jaker says to use the stock d-16 pump, pulley and seal. I am hoping the d16 pulley will work with the ZC oil pump and d-16 pan. This seems to be the combination that causes the least amount of question marks.

    miniwhl (Jesse)
  • JakerJaker familEE
    miniwhl wrote:
    Jaker says to use the stock d-16 pump, pulley and seal. I am hoping the d16 pulley will work with the ZC oil pump and d-16 pan. This seems to be the combination that causes the least amount of question marks.

    miniwhl (Jesse)


    However you can't do this without some modifications to the crank. Mine's getting ground by a crank guy in CT so it matches the D16A6 stuff perfectly.
  • kylerwhokylerwho Wagonist
    here is the d series compression calculator
    http://www.zealautowerks.com/dseries.html

    here is a step by step build for using the d17 crank but this guy used the d16y8 and also bored it out.
    http://www.d-series.org/forums/engine-b ... build.html

    here is the d17 N/A thread danz was refering to.
    http://www.d-series.org/forums/showcase ... build.html

    if you are serious about doing this swap then log onto d-series.org and start reading. there is a ton of information.
  • Honda HPHonda HP Wagonist
    what about block posting, resleeve w/ darton dry kit and bore to 81mm p30 piston with z6 head? 15:1 cr! haha just a idea...the cylinder walls would be like 3.5mm though eek! seen it done and they make like 180whp and 150 ft-lbs!
  • danzdanz Wagonist
    you've seen an 81mm bore D series make 180whp in person?
  • miniwhlminiwhl Band Wagon
    kylerwho, thanks for the links. I tried to find some linked info before, but it led me down the wrong path, computer-wise. My fault, no doubt.

    Jesse
  • Honda HPHonda HP Wagonist
    danz- i saw a dynopack? print out and the guy was driving a d16. sounded beastly, but you never know...i personally doubted it but on the d forums it is a topic...lot of head work required
  • kylerwhokylerwho Wagonist
    any pictures of this d16 bored out to 81mm? the biggest i have seen is 79mm and the guy was running darton mid sleeves.
  • Honda HPHonda HP Wagonist
    wish i had those pics. but no sorry...he said it's strictly for track/race and doesn't last long, so obviously not a good build for longevity
  • kylerwhokylerwho Wagonist
    i assume it would be possible to run that for a drag setup if you fill the block as well. darton recommends a bore of 79mm max for running N/A. 78mm is the max for boost.
  • danzdanz Wagonist
    the space between the sleeves at 81mm would leave much to be desired in terms of head gasket sealing.
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