First timers rt4wd boost quest. Help me out?

wagofresh2deathwagofresh2death Band Wagon
in Engine & Drivetrain
Alright so here it is, I want to boost my a6. I've done my research but you can really only read so much. This will be my first dive into major engine internals and boost. :oops: Noob. I'm aware. Can't learn until you try though. Anyhow, I have a z6 head on hand, so I'd like to utilize that and I would like to do my first set up with stock internals just to keep it as simple as possible to start. My goal is mild, I'd like to see 200whp and keep it reliable and have a broad powerband not just topend. This is a wagon, will be my daily, and I want it to feel mildish. So)
Goal)
200whp w/ stock internals, stockish mpgs and reliability and a turbo that builds boost early.

Parts on hand)
healthy d16a6 in car
complete z6 head
p28

I've decided to go for a cast log manifold, will be running an intercooler, but I've hit a wall when it comes to turbo selection.
I'm on a bit of a budget, not going dirt cheap but baller build this is not. I'd like to run a stock turbo, I was looking at a 14b off of a manual trans. 1st gen. eclipse, or a t25 off of a second gen eclipse(I think thats right?) My thinking being that i'm not looking for huge power, from what I can tell those are on the smaller side, designed for a somewhat similar engine size and layout and with a rebuild will be superior quality wise to an ebay turbo. I can't find good info on the guts of the situation though. Using the zeal compression calc. I came up with a 9.72:1 CR using the z6 head and a6 headgasket. Is this a safe CR for what I'm after? I know leaving the z6 head off and just keeping the motor all stock will leave me at 9.1:1 so I could save the z6 head for later if need be. I'm considering just leaving it that way to save myself the headache of getting it all assembled then if I run into problems not knowing if its internal, turbo related or what else as this is my first time with this. Also what kind of PSI would I be looking at running with this set up to hit nearish to 200whp? Suggestions on what turbo to run would be helpful as well. That 200hp mark is just a number, not a requirement. If leaving the motor stock for now means i'll have to go lower hp wise to keep it reliable and safe, then i'm all for it.

Comments

  • wagofresh2deathwagofresh2death Band Wagon
    mostly looking for advice on the set up, both motorwise and turbo wise to meet this goal
  • superhatchsuperhatch Moderator
    1. www.homemadeturbo.com
    2. Use the Z6 head, that's 20% more hp than your A6 basically for free since you already have the head.
    3. Use a thicker head gasket to get a lower CR on your mini-me back down to 9.1:1ish. 9.72 would probably be ok, but 9.1 is just gonna be safer. http://www.cometic.com/
    4. Decide on your tuning. There are probably a TON of Chrome maps out there for a setup like yours. Probably your best and cheapest option.
  • wagofresh2deathwagofresh2death Band Wagon
    I went to cometic and the thickest I could get without going custom made would be .051, to get an even 9.1:1 I'd need a head gasket thickness of .079 is that too thick? Or should I even be worried about getting comp that low?
  • kylerwhokylerwho Wagonist
    there is nothing wrong with running a compression of around 9.72:1. the window for error will be a tad bit smaller though.
    i would run the t25 and you will probably run about 8-9psi to see that horsepower number but your reliablity is going down hill since its documented that the rods will bend around the 220hp mark.
  • wagofresh2deathwagofresh2death Band Wagon
    So would 6-7psi be a little more appropriate? I don't want to mess with rods pistons and all that at this point just to keep it simple and be able to confine any post assembly problems to externals. For the manifold does the t25 have its own flange? Internal wastegate?
  • kylerwhokylerwho Wagonist
    most t25 run a stock internal wastegate set to right around 7psi so its really a bolt on process. the t25 flange is rather common to find.
  • dukevonDANKdukevonDANK Wagonist
    Are you keeping your A/C?

    I've got the parts, just like you, but I have a y8 head...and I'm trying my damnedest to figure out how to keep AC without doing lots of welding and funkyness...
  • leWolfleWolf Senior Wagonist
    dukevonDANK wrote:
    Are you keeping your A/C?

    I've got the parts, just like you, but I have a y8 head...and I'm trying my damnedest to figure out how to keep AC without doing lots of welding and funkyness...

    Greddy has a kit that is ac freindly. Something t14/t15 ish
  • wagofresh2deathwagofresh2death Band Wagon
    just picked up a t25 turbo today off a Saab 9000 for pretty cheap, as far as clearing A/C.. I'm keeping AC no if ands or buts about it, as far as the manifold I planned on using an AC compatible cast iron log manifold. I've seen some stainless AC manifolds out there but....pricey. This one does have a 7psi internal waste gate I looked it up, so I'll just let it run that I suppose and just make a block off for the wastegate part of the manifold.
  • dukevonDANKdukevonDANK Wagonist
    I'd like to see pictures of your end result
  • wagofresh2deathwagofresh2death Band Wagon
    I'll update as I progress, look for a thread in the members ride section in a few weeks or so. It will be done by end of june at the absolute latest. I know its a ways away but I'm a little more focused on my crx right now which i'm getting all the rust out of... I just keep finding more and more. I'll be rebuilding the turbo soon as it has some endplay, not alot though. Just don't want to pull it out again if I can prevent it. What are your plans for tuning? I figured I'd give it a shot on my own, i'm going to use the honda package off of moates.net, free log and crome, probably find a similar set up basemap and adjust it from there with a wideband and egt gauge.. going to get comfortable with crome using a lightly modified gsr first though.
  • silentdork818silentdork818 Band Wagon
    Look at the Edelbrock 15031 turbo manifold for D-series engines. It's cast, has a T25 flange and costs about $200 brand new.

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-15031

    http://www.edelbrock.com/sportcompact_n ... perf.shtml
  • gunsup0331gunsup0331 New Wagonist
    ^^cant tell from the links whether or not it will work with AC?
  • silentdork818silentdork818 Band Wagon
    If your T25/28 has a 5-bolt turbine outlet, Edelbrock sells a downpipe elbow that clears the A/C compressor.

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-15033/
  • gunsup0331gunsup0331 New Wagonist
    Cool thanks!
  • almostnickleealmostnicklee Wagonist
    will the 4wd setup handle that power easily?
  • kylerwhokylerwho Wagonist
    yes. the stock clutch would fail first.
  • efgarageefgarage Band Wagon
    thats some really good info! great to have those links! thank you,you just made my future plans easier!
  • byrne_06byrne_06 New Wagonist
    if you want it to be reliable get it tuned it will be worth it in the long run. The tuner is a huge part of the whole thing, we made 300whp on a stock z6 and ran it for almost a year beating the piss out of it. Make sure you got a nice open exhaust 2.5 or 3inch. Dont run big intercooler piping like 2.5 to 3 inch i have seen it done on stock motors and they wonder why there was so much lag. I have played with alot of turbo cars and had bad experiences. Like when i got my first turbo charged ef hatch we were doing a 150mph in 5th gear wide open for a good 5 miles and melted it completly lol You live and learn
  • wagofresh2deathwagofresh2death Band Wagon
    yeah theres some really helpful info on this thread, especially those links to the manifold and downpipe, just what I was looking for! I got really lucky because I happened to get a 5bolt housing turbo without even meaning to, guess I got lucky on that one. I'm leaving the z6 head off for now and using it on another project. I figure it will make it easier to build and more reliable with the lower CR of 9.1:1. Transmission/ front end of the 4wd will be out by the end of this weekend(i'm making a step by step how to remove transmission/motor on RT4WD models) I'll post a new thread once completed. OEM Honda service manual, money well spent!

    Question: where do you guys buy turbo rebuild kits? I don't want to spend $130 and up on a rebuild kit..........sounds ridiculous to me. t25 is the one I have. And DSM injectors? are they plug and play on obd0 cars?

    What size intercooler piping do you recommend? any links to something up my alley?
  • leWolfleWolf Senior Wagonist
    silentdork818 wrote:
    Look at the Edelbrock 15031 turbo manifold for D-series engines. It's cast, has a T25 flange and costs about $200 brand new.

    http://www.summitracing.com/parts/EDL-15031

    http://www.edelbrock.com/sportcompact_n ... perf.shtml

    BAHH! I need you to help me figure out who sells the rest of the downpipe. I kept thinking it was just a stocker but I don't know. I really like the Civic EX with TD04H-15G 92-95 [GR-11550021A] Kit with the whole being ac friendly and looking fairly factory, but the price tag is a terror to even think about. :shock:
  • efgarageefgarage Band Wagon
    dsm injectors only need a very very small mod to be plug and play.
  • wagofresh2deathwagofresh2death Band Wagon
    Alexander: theres a link in this thread to the down pipe, or did you mean after the down pipe? After the downpipe I'd imagine we have to custom something up, I doubt anything aftermarket dseries would clear, same situation as aftermarket dseries headers... I should be welding my post down pipe-down-pipe lol here in a week or two. It will be made to bolt up to the aforementioned edelbrock 15033 down pipe. Let me know if you want me to make an extra, I'd be A-okay with doing it for cost, same diameter as the 15033 pipe and made of 304 stainless probably.I'd be hesitant to do anything but an exact copy because of fitment issues if you used a different turbo, or manifold.... although a flex pipe would probably sort out any small issues. Just let me know within a few days if you're interested. Who knows, the stock post header pipe may work just fine, if so I'm leaving it. That complete kit does look nice, but as it looks so far I'll have a pretty high quality turbo set up, mostly oem components and engine management for well under a grand...

    .......and what is this small modification to use DSM injectors? I have blue top 450s on hand...
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