(turbo vtec)Thoughts(good or bad)

RTiAWDRTiAWD Band Wagon
in Engine & Drivetrain
I'm looking into picking up a d16a6 short block this weekend. And i know danz has done it but his is n/a. I wanna make a turbo d16 stroker using the rotating assembly out of a d17. and ill be running a d16z6 vtec head.

Any thoughts or concerns that would make this hard at all.

Comments

  • CharbCharb Administrator
    Have you ever built or tuned a car/motor before?

    You're just asking for a headache if you're an amateur
  • SiWagonSiWagon Council Member
    Check around first.I remember reading something about turbo or supercharger not working as well as you think with the D16z6 head.Something about Vtec cam timing that doesn't quite match with being blown. :x
  • danzdanz Wagonist
    in my opinion, from my experiences, the VTEC heads are the way to go.

    there is no down side except more parts to break and more things to go wrong. but its a honda, its reliable to begin with. so no worries.


    dont forget to remove the oil jet before you bolt the head up. and dont forget to use a metal layer steel gasket. the composite ones are the devil!!

    heres a dyno from my old drag motor setup. A6 bottom end, Z6 head, Colt cam

    danzdyno%20skewed.jpg
  • turbo_tegturbo_teg Council Member
    ive always kinda been curious about the d17 crank and rods in a z6 myself. or even the head from a d17 on a d16 and kpro..... might not be worth it....
  • FernpatchFernpatch Band Wagon
    It should work. Running the numbers shows 1668 cc total displacement and 9.8:1 static compression using an a6 block, complete d17a2 rotating assembly and head gasket, and a z6 head. I think those are good numbers to play with for a turbo setup. High enough compression to get good power but not so high that it is a pita to tune.
  • DarinDarin Wagonist
    and also d blocks dont like more than around 575 hp.even with sleeves.do it i wanna see a stroker turb build.
  • RTiAWDRTiAWD Band Wagon
    well ive build a couple na d series engines just never tuned them. i got a friend in nashville that is the shit at tuning anything. i can pick up most of the parts i need to do the build for little of nothing. and the only thing thats gonna be built is the head. ive seen 400+ hp on a stock d series bottom end. the tune just has to be good.
  • DarinDarin Wagonist
    playing with fire.i like it.
  • danzdanz Wagonist
    RTiAWD wrote:
    well ive build a couple na d series engines just never tuned them. i got a friend in nashville that is the shit at tuning anything. i can pick up most of the parts i need to do the build for little of nothing. and the only thing thats gonna be built is the head. ive seen 400+ hp on a stock d series bottom end. the tune just has to be good.


    for the price of some weisco pistons and some forged rods, id really recommend going that route.

    snap a rod, and u can easily take out the head, contaminate the turbos bearings, crack the bell housing on the tranny, etc.

    i wouldnt want to push these little D17 rods past 250whp, but thats just me id play it safe.


    heres a dyno from my NA D16 stroker i put together. D17A1 pistons, rods, crank... shaved my ZC block .030 to bring the pistons up to deck height. .027 Y8 head gasket. Y8 head with stock ports and stock cam. puts it about 11:1 CR.

    not bad for a stock cam. 143hp/130ftlb to the crank

    d17-dyno.jpg
  • RTiAWDRTiAWD Band Wagon
    if i build it it will def. be built right. as i dont have the money to just throw away like some ppl i know. and if i decide to go this route it will be a long build process.
  • kylerwhokylerwho Wagonist
    the d17 crank will need the snout machined to match the d16z6.

    the journals on the crank are smaller on the d17 so you cant bolt on d16 rods.

    should check out the d18 thread on d-series.org to see the stroker motor.
  • danzdanz Wagonist
    kylerwho wrote:
    the d17 crank will need the snout machined to match the d16z6.

    the journals on the crank are smaller on the d17 so you cant bolt on d16 rods.

    should check out the d18 thread on d-series.org to see the stroker motor.


    you dont need to machine the snout at all, if you use a D17 crank pulley and oil pump....

    you should check out my thread on d-series. :)
  • CharbCharb Administrator
    Oh the secrets hiding in this thread lol
  • turbo_tegturbo_teg Council Member
    but can a d17 head fit onto z6 or an a6? would there even be an advantage? and are they i-vtec or just vtec?
  • DarinDarin Wagonist
    http://www.d-series.org/forums/showcase ... build.html
  • danzdanz Wagonist
    turbo_teg wrote:
    but can a d17 head fit onto z6 or an a6? would there even be an advantage? and are they i-vtec or just vtec?


    i am only using the d17 rods/crank/pistons to "stroke" the motor out for more displacement. i am still using a D16 head and D16 block!

    its a VERY easy build with the right components. no machine work required. but if u want a little boost in CR the deck of the block can be shaved .030 to bring the pistons up to deck height
  • kylerwhokylerwho Wagonist
    yes i stand corrected.

    danz is right on using a d17 internals and oil pump and seal. i was thinking about the process to convert the d17 crank snout to work with the d16z6 pulley and oil pump.

    no a d17 head will not work on a d16 block. 2 oiling ports are in different places on the d17 block compared with the d16 head.
  • rex freymondrex freymond Band Wagon
    you should try a b18 pulley i put one on a 02 civic just to see if the hole was the same and it was . i just dont know if the pulleys will line up with all the belts but it does have three pulley groves . i would love to see someone try it and let me know
  • miniwhlminiwhl Band Wagon
    danz,

    I am building a stroker ZC with the d-17 crank for my towcar. I have to use the d-17 rods, oil pump and pulley, right? This will save me a great deal of grief and time. Thanks for the info. I am using Vitara pistons at 76mm bore to get 1715cc. Do you set the piston crown flush with the block deck? I plan to machine the crowns down to zero deck height, but haven't measured the difference yet. Have been given a ZC block, 2 heads and bought a d-17 shortblock for $50. New Vitara pistons were $125, so DOHC stroker motor = $175! Cheaper than Crower, by Gum!
  • danzdanz Wagonist
    if the piston crown sits above deck, it would be wise to open up the combustion chamber to 76mm to accept the piston or to mill down the head of the piston to be flush with deck.

    its up to you which way you want to go! i guess it also depends on what head you use...

    edit; if ur going DOHC i think it would be wise to open the combustion chamber a little, to accept the piston. that way you will increase your quench. those DOHC heads have HUUUUGE combustion chambers and shit quench!
  • miniwhlminiwhl Band Wagon
    danz,

    Read somewhere that you have to use a ZC lower cam gear to make this work, but it needs to be bored to fit the larger snout of the d-17 crank. Also something about the d-17 crank position sensor portion of the gear or pulley, wasn't clear to me which one. Is there an alternative to this, or do I need to use the ZC lower cam gear to get the right tooth count?

    Planning to mill the head .05-.06 and use stock cams from JDM ZC engine I have located here in Dallas. This should help the compression, but I can still swap back to the stock (spare) head if I decide to go Turbo after getting the NA version going.

    Thanks, Jesse
  • danzdanz Wagonist
    i can tell by your question you didnt even look at my build thread. read it. you will learn a lot.
  • woodiwoodi Wagonist
    Danz I have a question or two about the stroker build I was gonna piggy back on this thread if you don't mind. I am considering doing a d16a6 stroker for my RT4WD wagon. I'm looking for a D with a bit more low end torque and stroking definitely seems like a good way to do that.

    What I am currently trying to work out is if I can pull it off and keep the d16a6 oil pan. Since I have the RT4WD I suspect there would be clearance issues between the "transfer case" and the d17 oil pan.

    I've been doing lots of research, on your build you used the d17 components and d17 pan. Doing some more digging I found this in the D18 thread over at d-series. Comparing the oil pumps and rear main seal between the d17a1 and d16y8 and the only differences being the D17A1 oil pump is lacking the dipstick hole and the oil seal opening is bigger all other things seem the same. Sql Civic also says

    "The dipstick problem can be avoided altogether when using a D16Z6 block since it’s located on the exhaust side of the block. Another option is to machine a dipstick hole in the D17 oil pump and use that pump (the D16Y8 oil pan bolts up to it fine). "

    Going further I found this thread on HCW where sonic has done a D16Y8 swap using from what I can gather a D16A6 oil pan and D16Y8 pump with the A6 pickup. So if the D16Y8 and D17A1 parts are essentially the same it should seem reasonable to assume I could use the A6 pickup on the D17A1 pump and make it work.

    It seemed like in your build thread you didn't think that would work so I'm just trying to figure out why.
  • danzdanz Wagonist
    many combos will work. its up to you to put the time into making it work


    how is an RT oil pan different from a regular A6 oil pan?

    the stamped steel D17A1 pan is VERY similar to the FWD A6 pan...
  • woodiwoodi Wagonist
    Hmmm sounds like there is a good chance it might work. I know the RT oil pan is the same as the DOHC ZC but from what I've read is different than the standard A6. I think the mating surfaces are all the same the RT is just shallower in some way to allow for clearance on the transfer case.

    Seems like as long as there is no difference in the shape of the oil pan mating surface on the D17 and if the RT pickup will attach to the D17 oil pump it should work.

    I'm just trying to see if there are any major forseeable issues before I commit to the build.
  • woodiwoodi Wagonist
    Re-reading your D-series build thread I think I was mostly worried by this comment
    my SOHC ZC VTEC did not run a crank sensor. the oil pickup is very different on the D17 which is why i am using the D17 oil pan as well. the shape of the oil pump is different where the pump seals to the pan, which is why the D17 rear main was used as well.
  • rex freymondrex freymond Band Wagon
    the rt4wd oil pan has a indent for the drive shaft housing . i also know that you can put a stamped steel pan where a cast pan was without any problem i have done it because the steel pan is alot cheeper
  • danzdanz Wagonist
    woodi wrote:
    Re-reading your D-series build thread I think I was mostly worried by this comment
    my SOHC ZC VTEC did not run a crank sensor. the oil pickup is very different on the D17 which is why i am using the D17 oil pan as well. the shape of the oil pump is different where the pump seals to the pan, which is why the D17 rear main was used as well.


    so basically what im saying there is the shape of the sealing flange on the D17 pan differs from the D16 pan. but it only differs where the rear main and oil pump are.

    otherwise they are very similar.

    rex freymond wrote:
    the rt4wd oil pan has a indent for the drive shaft housing . i also know that you can put a stamped steel pan where a cast pan was without any problem i have done it because the steel pan is alot cheeper


    thats good news. sounds like it could be as easy as busting out a rubber or dead blow hammer and notching a steel D17 pan. done and done.
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