Fuel Saving Mods?

jameskjamesk Wagonist
in General Civic Wagon Discussion
Heyo!

Gas is getting expensive again. I am convinced it will keep going up. Anyone ever done anything crazy to their cars to save gas? I'm talking in the same vein as this old hatch: http://www.aerocivic.com

I know about the electric wagon... That costs too much!

Any idea how much of a difference covering the rear wheels would make?
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Comments

  • leWolfleWolf Senior Wagonist
    jamesk wrote:
    Heyo!

    Gas is getting expensive again. I am convinced it will keep going up. Anyone ever done anything crazy to their cars to save gas? I'm talking in the same vein as this old hatch: http://www.aerocivic.com

    I know about the electric wagon... That costs too much!

    Any idea how much of a difference covering the rear wheels would make?

    I know somebody that would trade you a crx for your wagon.

    http://www.hondacivicwagon.com/bb/viewtopic.php?f=16&t=8083&hilit=fuel+mods+mpg

    You gotta search though. New engine+trans+ecu would be best
  • efrue57efrue57 New Wagonist
    I tailgate 18 wheelers.
  • CSM ShaunCSM Shaun Band Wagon
    Turbochargers actually add efficiency to an engine when used in an efficient manner. You can certainly see an increase in fuel economy by using a turbo charger but monitoring your manifold pressure. You want to maintain vaccuum at all times.
  • NZ-DB8RNZ-DB8R Moderator
    CSM Shaun wrote:
    Turbochargers actually add efficiency to an engine when used in an efficient manner. You can certainly see an increase in fuel economy by using a turbo charger but monitoring your manifold pressure. You want to maintain vaccuum at all times.

    That is quite possibly one the the most expensive ways of increasing your economy. Not to mention that as soon as its turbo you will want to drive it harder.

    Best way to increase economy:
    -clean your car out of rubbish, no point using your car as storage and carrying useless stuff everywhere you go
    -check your tyre pressures, low tyre pressures will increase friction on the road
    -take notice of your driving, when you start trying you will be amazed just how economically you can drive
  • CSM ShaunCSM Shaun Band Wagon
    Putting a turbocharger on a car does not have to be expensive. And you even stated this:
    NZ-DB8R wrote:
    -take notice of your driving, when you start trying you will be amazed just how economically you can drive

    The same principal applies to having a turbocharger.
  • NZ-DB8RNZ-DB8R Moderator
    CSM Shaun wrote:
    Putting a turbocharger on a car does not have to be expensive. And you even stated this:
    NZ-DB8R wrote:
    -take notice of your driving, when you start trying you will be amazed just how economically you can drive

    The same principal applies to having a turbocharger.[/quote:1oeayd3y]

    Ok so a basic turbo set up:
    -all misc parts (Turbo, manifold, piping etc etc) $2000 if you buy cheap stuff
    -Tuning $1000 (a bad tune will result in a dead engine)

    Pretty cheap you are right.


    So why would you install a turbo only to drive economically when you could have just driven that way to start with? Wouldnt it be a better idea to spend the money getting your current engine running as efficiently as possible?

    Im not saying that a turbo cannot be used to improve economy, I'm saying its not the easiest or most cost efficient way of doing things.
  • CSM ShaunCSM Shaun Band Wagon
    NZ-DB8R wrote:
    Ok so a basic turbo set up:
    -all misc parts (Turbo, manifold, piping etc etc) $2000 if you buy cheap stuff
    -Tuning $1000 (a bad tune will result in a dead engine)

    Pretty cheap you are right.

    Those prices are way off base. What parts would you be buying? Brand new HKS stuff?

    I never said it was the cheapest or the easiest way to improve efficiency. But I did say it would improve fuel efficiency which was what the OP wanted to know.

    I have another suggestion for improving fuel efficiency that costs about $3 and can be done in ten minutes. It is even tested and proven many times over. Tape off all the sharp edges and gaps on the front of your car and most of the opening in your bumper. You can't tape off the radiator opening entirely obviously but you can have a 6" opening and not overheat.
  • thaddeusssthaddeusss Band Wagon
    hmm... yeah the turbo cost estimate is way off. maybe for a ridiculous performance setup... just the other day I was looking at buying a manifold and small turbo (used) for $150. access to the right tools and similar bargain-hunting would probably finish the project under $500.

    still might not be worth the fuel economy improvements, but it'd be a lot closer. and more fun.
  • CSM ShaunCSM Shaun Band Wagon
    A 13g DSM turbo on a D15B in an EG hatch with two adults, one child and stuff for the weekend realized over 55mpg while driving on the highway and monitoring manifold vacuum. I would consider that worthwhile gains. And the setup cost $500.
  • NZ-DB8RNZ-DB8R Moderator
    CSM Shaun wrote:
    NZ-DB8R wrote:
    Ok so a basic turbo set up:
    -all misc parts (Turbo, manifold, piping etc etc) $2000 if you buy cheap stuff
    -Tuning $1000 (a bad tune will result in a dead engine)

    Pretty cheap you are right.

    Those prices are way off base. What parts would you be buying? Brand new HKS stuff?

    I never said it was the cheapest or the easiest way to improve efficiency. But I did say it would improve fuel efficiency which was what the OP wanted to know.

    I have another suggestion for improving fuel efficiency that costs about $3 and can be done in ten minutes. It is even tested and proven many times over. Tape off all the sharp edges and gaps on the front of your car and most of the opening in your bumper. You can't tape off the radiator opening entirely obviously but you can have a 6" opening and not overheat.[/quote:1hy7ohz7]

    Well seeing as I live in NZ I was naturally using NZ dollars wasnt I? HKS stuff would be about $7000 + tune

    -Cheap manifold $400
    -Cheap second hand turbo $300
    -Intercooler and piping $600
    -Downpipe to exhaust $100
    -BOV $100
    -Misc other parts couple hundred

    Then a few hours on the dyno @ $60/hour (plus $60/hour for the tuner) and some road tuning at the same rate + the price of whatever you are using for tuning.
    All adds up

    Then your motor decides it doesnt like boost an implodes 1 year down the track.
    But thats a half assed attempt, and I believe that if you are gunna do something you do it right, so why turbo a car on the cheap and go to all that effort when you could go to the same effort and do it right and get a far better result.
  • CSM ShaunCSM Shaun Band Wagon
    You are talking about turbocharging for a totally different reason. There is nothing wrong or half-assed about a $500 turbo kit that produces 200 horsepower to the crank and increase fuel efficiency with conservative driving. Your scenario involves turbocharging from a purely performance standpoint.
  • SLC_SHUTTLESLC_SHUTTLE New Wagonist
    I have never have spent more than $600 for a complete turbo kit. Matter of fact im purchasing a Jackson Racing supercharger for $200 today complete.

    LMK if anyone needs turbo stuff, Utah has dirt cheap used turbo kits lol
  • bluecruiserbluecruiser Wagonist
    im getting a turbo kit for 700. but i drive my car everyday, goin to 1st job, then other job is delivering food back and fourth. i dont rush my self and just coast the car. and i can make a quarter tank last for a week.
  • danzdanz Wagonist
    the best mileage ive ever had is from a high performance engine i build with economy in mind last

    11:1 CR, D17 stroker, 4.437 final drive, Zex 59300 cam, Y8 intake manifold, Megan exhaust header, etc

    39.4mpg cruising at 3700rpm. not bad at all.






    anyone who wants better mileage that has a roof rack needs to take that shit off!
  • bluecruiserbluecruiser Wagonist
    danz wrote:
    the best mileage ive ever had is from a high performance engine i build with economy in mind last

    11:1 CR, D17 stroker, 4.437 final drive, Zex 59300 cam, Y8 intake manifold, Megan exhaust header, etc

    39.4mpg cruising at 3700rpm. not bad at all.






    anyone who wants better mileage that has a roof rack needs to take that shit off!


    i need a roof rack and it will stay there if i ever find one. lol.
  • byrne_06byrne_06 New Wagonist
    Do a complete tune up
    Tire pressure (like mentioned)
    possibly a cold air intake setup
    turbo charging it if you can get a good deal on a kit

    i had a buddy put a msd coil and cap on his sedan and was getting about 45-46 mpg when he took it off and drove it and did a comparision he got about 39-40 mpg.
    Something to think about ? maybe
  • SECURITYSECURITY Band Wagon
    Driving style is the best mod
  • TheGmanTheGman Wagonist
    danz wrote:
    the best mileage ive ever had is from a high performance engine i build with economy in mind last

    11:1 CR, D17 stroker, 4.437 final drive, Zex 59300 cam, Y8 intake manifold, Megan exhaust header, etc

    39.4mpg cruising at 3700rpm. not bad at all.

    Pretty sure thats super legit.

    I think my friends mini-me gets about 39mpg and its pretty quick too. Totally a good option if you're down for the wiring/getting a whole new motor haha
  • absolutetintingabsolutetinting Wagonist
    basic mods, intake & header. practice hypermilling.

    the problem with most fuel saving mods gives you extra power, this make you want to use it and you'll use more fuel.

    i've seen many turbo upgrades convert to e85 out here in ks., they say it works and plus gas is cheaper.
  • SiWagonSiWagon Council Member
    :cry: I'd be careful about going to E85.Vehicles NOT designed for alcohol can ONLY take about 10% alcohol.Beyond that point it starts to eat anything rubber.Look what happen in Brazil when they went alcohol.Within I think 4 years all their vehicles died due to rubber disintegration even NEW cars.Our days maybe numbered anyway.New Federal mandates states we goto more alcohol mixed fuels over the coming years.I believe upto 20% alcohol.We should be doing off shore drilling or converting to natural gas.
    The other problem is water.Just a few drops( :twisted: Yes a few drops ) can cause the gas & alcohol to seperate.If you store your vehicle for a extended time even the current gas will eat your fuel pump.I stored my Fiero for less than a year.The current gas ate my new fuel pump. :cry: If you want to learn more read one of the recent Popular Mechanics or Popular Science on this subject.Sorry can't remember which month .It was in the Auto section.Maybe it's a EPA ,Corn lobbyist ,Car manufactures plot to get all of us to buy NEW cars.
    The other reason E85 is cheaper is it gets less gas mileage.

    Political statement:We CAN NOT use corn as a fuel.It competes with food production.The Corn they grow for fuel is different from the corn we eat.It taste bad.They grow less eating corn and other crops 'cuz the gov subsidies pay more.Remember the Mexican Mom's tortilla revolt.Even our food prices went up for this reason.Itwas covered up by the bad economy .

    As far as this current gas spike.The answer is easy.All Obama has to do is sign in a Executive Order that all New federal vehicles purchases from this point on must be CNG.THe USA has more natural gas than we know what to do with.Did you know that when oil is pump out of the ground that that escaping natural gas is pumped back into the ground.
  • quartersquarters Council Member
    - alignment. make sure your tires are pointed dead straight. if the toe is in or out, you will have unwanted drag.
    - tire pressure, if you don't care about ride quality, fill them to the max psi posted on the sidewall.
    - air filter, fuel filter, plugs, wires, cap & rotor
    - don't turbo
    - lighten the load, spare tire & stuff... ( i keep mine in, you never know)
    - mpfi swap (if you haven't already)
    - stay under 65mph


    2 weeks ago I did a 4,500km road trip and kept very close eye on mpg.
    - with wind @ 110kmh - 35mpg
    - with wind @ 120kmh - 29mpg
    -against wind @ 110kmh - 29mpg
    -against wind @ 120kmh - 24mpg

    -tire pressures were set to a low 26psi, winter driving conditions, studded winter tires. i would rather have good traction than have died trying to achieve mpg.
    -had about 150lbs (or a passenger) worth of cargo.
    -fresh alignment done at Winnipeg Honda. thanks dave.

    there were enormous differences in mpg between 110 & 120. the wagon does not like battling wind and highway speeds.
  • bretrutanbretrutan Band Wagon
    FWIW

    After reading this thread, I decided to change my driving style for a tank of gas.

    I used to shift around 3k-3.5k which netted me 30.2mpg

    I changed to shift sub 2.5k, and cruised on the interstate less than 70mph. I netted 33.3mpg.

    I was shocked needless to say.
  • gunsup0331gunsup0331 New Wagonist
    my STD hatch gets 35mpg driving fairly aggressively 70/30 (hwy/city). dpfi, 220k miles bone stock from intake box to tailpipe except 5spd tranny. Lowered 2inches
  • wagonef8wagonef8 Wagonist
    dangerous but works when my wagon had a 1.5 in it I got 45mpg drafting behind semi's. right now getting 30mpg with my gsr swap ... I am doing some small mods to my CRX Si now including Hf crx tranny swap low rolling resistance tires with 89 crx bumper swap with grill block off, rear wiper delete and 2.5 inch drop and no more interior , trying to get it as light as posible. but at the end it all comes down to driving style my wive averages 23mpg on my 08 Scion Xb while I avarage 30mpg
  • efrue57efrue57 New Wagonist
    I thought it seemed crazy but I just swapped in an Si cam with a Y8 cam gear in my d15 and so far at the halfway mark I have traveled about 40 miles further than with the stock d15 cam. My driving style has actually been a little more agressive than normal because I wanted to see the difference the cam made. So,

    more agressive driving + more agressive cam = better fuel economy??? lol
  • bam-bambam-bam Council Member
    quarters wrote:
    - alignment. make sure your tires are pointed dead straight. if the toe is in or out, you will have unwanted drag.
    - tire pressure, if you don't care about ride quality, fill them to the max psi posted on the sidewall.
    - air filter, fuel filter, plugs, wires, cap & rotor
    - don't turbo
    - lighten the load, spare tire & stuff... ( i keep mine in, you never know)
    - mpfi swap (if you haven't already)
    - stay under 65mph


    2 weeks ago I did a 4,500km road trip and kept very close eye on mpg.
    - with wind @ 110kmh - 35mpg
    - with wind @ 120kmh - 29mpg
    -against wind @ 110kmh - 29mpg
    -against wind @ 120kmh - 24mpg

    -tire pressures were set to a low 26psi, winter driving conditions, studded winter tires. i would rather have good traction than have died trying to achieve mpg.
    -had about 150lbs (or a passenger) worth of cargo.
    -fresh alignment done at Winnipeg Honda. thanks dave.

    there were enormous differences in mpg between 110 & 120. the wagon does not like battling wind and highway speeds.


    ^^ He's right. On our recent Florida trip I got 20 mpg pulling the trailer on the interstate at 80. When I slowed down and cruised back north on A1A averaging about 50 mph, mileage went up to 24-5 mpg.

    Of course, if every hour at 80 brings me 30 miles closer to home...screw the fuel economy!
  • bam-bambam-bam Council Member
    speaking of mileage: pebbles new DelSol netted 36.7 mpg last tank. Not a fluke, I've not seen less than 34.

    Bone stock '94 S model, 144k miles, I haven't touched it. Gotta love it!

    I'm thinking on building a mileagecentric wagon. Problem is my commute is 10 miles with 20 lights. Hard to achieve much. Maybe I'll just ride the moto- 55 mpg.
  • rbwdrivenrbwdriven Senior Wagonist
    I actually did a tune up on my crx.

    I decided to get the e3 plugs as well. Just to give them a try.

    I also keep my tires at 36 psi.

    I figured while I was at it I would change my driving style since I was now going from a 10 mile commute to a 26 mile commute.

    My crx is basically stock. 88 crx si with 351k on the original motor. The only thing I've done is regular maintenance and put a true cold air kit on it and a free flowing monza "pacesetter" exhaust.

    With that in mind. I changed my style from shifting at around 4k to 2.5k.

    I keep my average speed to around 50mph in the city. Now I'm not on the highways. This is going through the city on city roads, so I'm usually 5 mph over.

    I took my mileage up from around 32 mpg to 39.75 mpg just by doing those simple things.

    Now with my EP3 I do the same stuff, have not changed plugs over. Just keep the revs down and I'm averaging 32mpg.

    MY issue with all of this is I'm an engineer. Kind of stressful some days. Also granddad was Irish. I have a very short fuse.

    MY stress reliever tends to be my right foot and 6k shifts so on those days I accept that gas mileage goes to hell.
  • jameskjamesk Wagonist
    bump for expensive gas
  • FlyntFlynt Band Wagon
    Bumping this back up because I've been paying attention to mileage.
    '91 5 speed lowered on Skunk2 pro-S coilovers and low-offset 13x6 Ardun slot mags. Cheap tires @ 36psi. Volvo front lip. Stock otherwise including DPFI.

    I noticed with the low suspension and a Volvo front lip my mileage went up ~4mpg. I drive pretty conservatively (usually shift around 3.5k), but not like a hypermiler.
    I'm going to make a belly pan. Trying to hit 40mpg. I got 36 on my last tank. It's like a game now.. pretty interesting to see the little changes add up. I couldn't beat 32 when the car was stock, and that was driving like a retiree. Now I get better than 32 driving aggressively.
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