Good point I have a 71' Bus so I know all about those metal screens. Turbine engine aircraft also utilize a metal screen filter but with a much finer mesh than the VW's. These engines do run much cleaner than our internal combustion engines. Hey, maybe if a metal screen filter is good enough for a million dollar engine - maybe I need to create a reusable metal screen filter for our Hondas!
Typically engines that run at hi temps require shorter oil change intervals(e.g.turbo,SC cars).
As far as the metal screen oil filter.It's been done.NASCAR and a lot of race cars use them.If I remember right they filter down to 3-4 microns.Regular oil filters...15-20 microns if that low.There is a series of oil filters now at the car parts place that filter lower,but not 4 microns.
:arrow: It's called the ,"Orberg Filter".It goes by other names too.It's a jet plane fuel filter.The original one is about 6-7" square by 2" thick.Held together by 4 bolts with a 6" metal disc screen inside .A pressure by-pass in the middle.A newer version is 4-5" square.Look in Circle Track mag for ads.I ran one in a turbo Mustang for years.Filter was always clean,but the oil always dirty.Oil changes takes longer 'cuz...unbolting,inspecting ,cleaning housing & filter ,then reassembling.
When people talk about oil filters, the name "Fram" usually pops up. Why? Because they've been available at every major retailer since the beginning of time. The bright orange can is hard to miss on the shelves and the barrage of marketing behind the product is inescapable. Frams are available in three major grades: the garden variety "Extra Guard", the upgraded "Tough Guard" and the pricey "Extended Guard" or "Synthetic" in Canada.
Here's the bottom-line: Except for the top-of-the-line "Synthetic", Fram's filters are over-priced compared to the available competition. The construction quality of the Extra & Tough Guard line is inferior to filters half their price. In most oil filters, a metallic endcap holds the media and anti-drainback valve in place. On these Frams, it is made of cardboard. Fram defends it's position and the use of cardboard, but why then does it also resort to a metal endcap on its "Synthetic" filter?
That brings us to the last fact: Most of Honda's OEM oil filters are manufactured by Honeywell (Fram's parent company). Now, they're not an exact replica of the Fram Extra Guard, but they are very similar to the Tough Guard and that filter has cardboard endcaps. If you purchase the Honda part number ending in "A02", you're getting a Fram. Look for, or ask for Honda part number ending in "A01" (harder to find) as these are manufactured by Filtech. On to the pics...
Honda "A01" (Filtech) on Left, Fram Tough Guard on Right:
Fram Extra Guard opened up. Notice the cardboard endcaps:
Fram and competitors. Can you spot the Fram manufactured filters?:
Do you really want this filter protecting your engine?: :shock:
--->My two cents: Will your engine blow up using a Fram? Probably not. There are probably millions of cars on the road right now blissfully driving around with Fram oil filters installed. Would Honda risk its reputation on this? Unknown. Car companies usually look for the most cost efficient parts suppliers. I used to use Fram on my CRX because I just didn't know any better. I paid top dollar for what I thought was the best oil filter. Thankfully the internet came around and has informed me otherwise. I don't use OEM unless I can find an "A01" filter. Right now, I have a US-spec Supertech (Walmart) brand filter on my CRX. Made by Champion Labs (not the spark plug company), built like a tank. I pickup a bunch when I'm in the US for $2.50 each. I also have used Hyundai OEM filters on the CRX because they fit perfect and are of incredible quality.
Here are the two available Honda OEM filters:
This is the one you want: "A01" by Filtech:
This is the one you don't want: "A02" by Honeywell / Fram:
Fram "engineers" can argue cardboard vs metal until they're blue-in-the-face. Here's a Fram that was on a Dodge pickup for 3000 miles. Judge for yourself:
Honda 15400-PLM-A01 ("blue can" introduced in 2003)
Labeled "Filtech, Inc." It is made by Dana, which also makes Wix. Frankly, I was extremely impressed when I cracked the can. It has a very different filter media from the rest, which appears to be more of a synthetic weave than a treated paper. It had the most filter area of our sample set - by far - at 151 square inches, the result of deep pleating. Only negative I could find was metal-to-metal contact on the bypass valve, which risks undesired trickle of bypass. I have to mention the minor drawback of a stamped tension spring, but it's a really good one, made out of tempered spring steel and not just bent sheet metal.
This filter doesn't have traditional end caps. What it does have is a felt-like polyester material which seals the ends of the pleating enough to prevent bypass. The base gasket is special to Honda. It is a half-round design, with a flat surface against the baseplate but a curved surface against the block. Another unique feature is a semi-labyrinth seal between the anti-drainback valve and the filter core - best seal of the bunch.
This filter may be made by Filtech/Dana/Wix, but nothing about it resembles the off-the-shelf Wix. Consider it a completely custom design.
This is clearly the best filter of the lot by an immense margin. I sincerely hope that Honda is not planning on discontinuing this excellent design given the introduction of the next filter.
(Some of you might recall the "old old" Honda filter. It had a larger can and was made by Fram. It's been out of production since mid-2003 and I was unable to get a sample.)
Honda 15400-PLM-A02 (newest "blue can")
Labeled "Honeywell", which is the new owner of Fram. This filter embodies nearly everything that is bad about a Fram filter - cardboard end caps, a stamped "outie" nipple receptor (harder to "aim" and easier to crossthread), filter material that looks cheap, and spacer instead of a tension spring. It just appears cheap in nearly every construction detail. Only positive was a silicone anti-drainback valve.
This filter has 106 sq. in. of filter area, which is about 15 more than its Fram sibling. Bypass valve is hard plastic. This filter also has the custom Honda baseplate gasket, half-round instead of a standard rectangular cross-section.
Not recommended. To limit your exposure, do not exceed 5K oil change intervals if your dealer gives you no choice but to install this filter.
Advance Auto "totalgrip" AA7317
Made by Purolator, or the same OEM who makes Purolator. This is the same filter as the Purolator PureOne, except with a nitrile rubber anti-drainback valve, and adds a can coating of rubbery grip material. Best feature of this filter was the price: $2.50, half of the next least expensive. See PureOne comments for other details.
Conditionally recommended (see Purolator PureOne).
Purolator PureOne PL14610
This represents "the middle of the road" of the sample group. Filter cartridge construction is good quality, with metal end caps. Filter area is 108 sq. in. Stamped tension spring.
Bypass valve is an area of major concern. It uses a stamped, fingered spring design that doesn't appear to open very far. My perception is that this filter could be a very risky bet with extended oil change intervals. Clogged filter media would exercise the bypass valve, but I perceive the valve to be too restrictive, and would starve the engine of lubrication at high RPM.
Conditionally recommended, and then only because it's tied for #2 in the survey for total filter area. Do not use this filter if you are following the 10,000 mile oil change schedule.
Fram Extra Guard PH7317
The orange can.
Oh, where do I begin? Cardboard end caps, nitrile rubber anti-drainback valve, "outie" nipple receptor, 39 pleats (20% less than nearly every other filter), hard plastic bypass valve with little contact area (leak-prone), rubber-to-cardboard "seals", tensioner that's not a spring, just a spacer. In other words - and in my opinion - in every possible engineering decision between "a little better" and "cheap", the choice was "cheap". 91 square inches of filter surface.
I know that Fram has great marketing and that people still swear by the product. However, it did my heart good to cut this one apart, knowing that it will never live a single day of its life putting someone's engine at risk due to either internal collapse or constantly leaking dirty oil past the filter element.
Not recommended. Ever.
(PS - Keep an eye on this space. Fram's lawyers have harrassed previous reviewers attempting to get the word out; it seems that unless you hold a PhD in oil filter engineering and parse your words very carefully you are not permitted to comment on their product)
Bosch Premium 3323
This is a well-made filter using quality materials. Bypass valve is of excellent construction, with a rubber seal and coil-spring action with wide opening. Filter cartridge is of good construction, with metal end caps. Downsides of the Bosch are nitrile rubber anti-drainback valve and small filter area, 3rd from the bottom at 90 square inches. Tension spring is stamped metal; seems to be nicely "springy", but it could be better.
One area that got my attention was the extra-thick baseplate - roughly double the thickness of the others. Not quite sure what this accomplishes.
Recommended as a third choice, mindful of change intervals.
Mobil1 M1-110
This is the same filter as the Bosch, but with 20% less filter area, at a miniscule 72 square inches - the worst on our list. Only other difference is a silicone anti-drainback valve. This filter is of quality construction, but at less than half the filtering capacity of the Honda -A01, there is simply no reason to bother with it.
Hah, i was right, fram does suck. I realized this when i held a mobile 1 and a fram next to eachother, the mobile one weighed 2x as much, how can a fram be decent if it uses half the media?
If you like buying expensive name brand filters thats fine. But for some of you to come on here and dog all other filters is just retarded. A filter is a filter. And someone posted earlier that " Fram is well known as garbage around most car communities" LOLOLOLOLOL. "The car communities"???, what about the the other 99% of the population who dont care what filter is on there cars and still run fine for years and years and years??
I still won't run fram though. But I don't really care what kind of filter I use or the kind of oil either. I just get what is on sale mainly. I even ran supertech oil for years when I lived close enough to a Wal-Mart. I think the most important thing is changing both oil and filter regularly.
Comments
As far as the metal screen oil filter.It's been done.NASCAR and a lot of race cars use them.If I remember right they filter down to 3-4 microns.Regular oil filters...15-20 microns if that low.There is a series of oil filters now at the car parts place that filter lower,but not 4 microns.
:arrow:
Here's the bottom-line: Except for the top-of-the-line "Synthetic", Fram's filters are over-priced compared to the available competition. The construction quality of the Extra & Tough Guard line is inferior to filters half their price. In most oil filters, a metallic endcap holds the media and anti-drainback valve in place. On these Frams, it is made of cardboard. Fram defends it's position and the use of cardboard, but why then does it also resort to a metal endcap on its "Synthetic" filter?
That brings us to the last fact: Most of Honda's OEM oil filters are manufactured by Honeywell (Fram's parent company). Now, they're not an exact replica of the Fram Extra Guard, but they are very similar to the Tough Guard and that filter has cardboard endcaps. If you purchase the Honda part number ending in "A02", you're getting a Fram. Look for, or ask for Honda part number ending in "A01" (harder to find) as these are manufactured by Filtech. On to the pics...
Honda "A01" (Filtech) on Left, Fram Tough Guard on Right:
Fram Extra Guard opened up. Notice the cardboard endcaps:
Fram and competitors. Can you spot the Fram manufactured filters?:
Do you really want this filter protecting your engine?: :shock:
--->My two cents: Will your engine blow up using a Fram? Probably not. There are probably millions of cars on the road right now blissfully driving around with Fram oil filters installed. Would Honda risk its reputation on this? Unknown. Car companies usually look for the most cost efficient parts suppliers. I used to use Fram on my CRX because I just didn't know any better. I paid top dollar for what I thought was the best oil filter. Thankfully the internet came around and has informed me otherwise. I don't use OEM unless I can find an "A01" filter. Right now, I have a US-spec Supertech (Walmart) brand filter on my CRX. Made by Champion Labs (not the spark plug company), built like a tank. I pickup a bunch when I'm in the US for $2.50 each. I also have used Hyundai OEM filters on the CRX because they fit perfect and are of incredible quality.
Here are the two available Honda OEM filters:
This is the one you want: "A01" by Filtech:
This is the one you don't want: "A02" by Honeywell / Fram:
Fram "engineers" can argue cardboard vs metal until they're blue-in-the-face. Here's a Fram that was on a Dodge pickup for 3000 miles. Judge for yourself:
Now, check out this Bosch with metal endcaps:
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gSKj-SbR ... r_embedded
Lolol ''oirls''. The language isn't safe for work btw.
Thanks for doing this. Great info.
Labeled "Filtech, Inc." It is made by Dana, which also makes Wix. Frankly, I was extremely impressed when I cracked the can. It has a very different filter media from the rest, which appears to be more of a synthetic weave than a treated paper. It had the most filter area of our sample set - by far - at 151 square inches, the result of deep pleating. Only negative I could find was metal-to-metal contact on the bypass valve, which risks undesired trickle of bypass. I have to mention the minor drawback of a stamped tension spring, but it's a really good one, made out of tempered spring steel and not just bent sheet metal.
This filter doesn't have traditional end caps. What it does have is a felt-like polyester material which seals the ends of the pleating enough to prevent bypass. The base gasket is special to Honda. It is a half-round design, with a flat surface against the baseplate but a curved surface against the block. Another unique feature is a semi-labyrinth seal between the anti-drainback valve and the filter core - best seal of the bunch.
This filter may be made by Filtech/Dana/Wix, but nothing about it resembles the off-the-shelf Wix. Consider it a completely custom design.
This is clearly the best filter of the lot by an immense margin. I sincerely hope that Honda is not planning on discontinuing this excellent design given the introduction of the next filter.
(Some of you might recall the "old old" Honda filter. It had a larger can and was made by Fram. It's been out of production since mid-2003 and I was unable to get a sample.)
Honda 15400-PLM-A02 (newest "blue can")
Labeled "Honeywell", which is the new owner of Fram. This filter embodies nearly everything that is bad about a Fram filter - cardboard end caps, a stamped "outie" nipple receptor (harder to "aim" and easier to crossthread), filter material that looks cheap, and spacer instead of a tension spring. It just appears cheap in nearly every construction detail. Only positive was a silicone anti-drainback valve.
This filter has 106 sq. in. of filter area, which is about 15 more than its Fram sibling. Bypass valve is hard plastic. This filter also has the custom Honda baseplate gasket, half-round instead of a standard rectangular cross-section.
Not recommended. To limit your exposure, do not exceed 5K oil change intervals if your dealer gives you no choice but to install this filter.
Advance Auto "totalgrip" AA7317
Made by Purolator, or the same OEM who makes Purolator. This is the same filter as the Purolator PureOne, except with a nitrile rubber anti-drainback valve, and adds a can coating of rubbery grip material. Best feature of this filter was the price: $2.50, half of the next least expensive. See PureOne comments for other details.
Conditionally recommended (see Purolator PureOne).
Purolator PureOne PL14610
This represents "the middle of the road" of the sample group. Filter cartridge construction is good quality, with metal end caps. Filter area is 108 sq. in. Stamped tension spring.
Bypass valve is an area of major concern. It uses a stamped, fingered spring design that doesn't appear to open very far. My perception is that this filter could be a very risky bet with extended oil change intervals. Clogged filter media would exercise the bypass valve, but I perceive the valve to be too restrictive, and would starve the engine of lubrication at high RPM.
Conditionally recommended, and then only because it's tied for #2 in the survey for total filter area. Do not use this filter if you are following the 10,000 mile oil change schedule.
Fram Extra Guard PH7317
The orange can.
Oh, where do I begin? Cardboard end caps, nitrile rubber anti-drainback valve, "outie" nipple receptor, 39 pleats (20% less than nearly every other filter), hard plastic bypass valve with little contact area (leak-prone), rubber-to-cardboard "seals", tensioner that's not a spring, just a spacer. In other words - and in my opinion - in every possible engineering decision between "a little better" and "cheap", the choice was "cheap". 91 square inches of filter surface.
I know that Fram has great marketing and that people still swear by the product. However, it did my heart good to cut this one apart, knowing that it will never live a single day of its life putting someone's engine at risk due to either internal collapse or constantly leaking dirty oil past the filter element.
Not recommended. Ever.
(PS - Keep an eye on this space. Fram's lawyers have harrassed previous reviewers attempting to get the word out; it seems that unless you hold a PhD in oil filter engineering and parse your words very carefully you are not permitted to comment on their product)
Bosch Premium 3323
This is a well-made filter using quality materials. Bypass valve is of excellent construction, with a rubber seal and coil-spring action with wide opening. Filter cartridge is of good construction, with metal end caps. Downsides of the Bosch are nitrile rubber anti-drainback valve and small filter area, 3rd from the bottom at 90 square inches. Tension spring is stamped metal; seems to be nicely "springy", but it could be better.
One area that got my attention was the extra-thick baseplate - roughly double the thickness of the others. Not quite sure what this accomplishes.
Recommended as a third choice, mindful of change intervals.
Mobil1 M1-110
This is the same filter as the Bosch, but with 20% less filter area, at a miniscule 72 square inches - the worst on our list. Only other difference is a silicone anti-drainback valve. This filter is of quality construction, but at less than half the filtering capacity of the Honda -A01, there is simply no reason to bother with it.
Not recommended, especially for $11!
viewtopic.php?f=7&t=11197&hilit=oil+filters
CRAP !
SWEETNESS !
Amsoil is my next oil filter I'm gonna stock up on !
thanks.
OIL FILTERS REVEALED
http://minimopar.knizefamily.net/oilfil ... rence.html
I still won't run fram though. But I don't really care what kind of filter I use or the kind of oil either. I just get what is on sale mainly. I even ran supertech oil for years when I lived close enough to a Wal-Mart. I think the most important thing is changing both oil and filter regularly.
http://forums.nicoclub.com/a-bad-day-in ... 27348.html
thanks for the info