Vibration at stop, motor mounts or timing belt?

jkwanusjkwanus New Wagonist
in Engine & Drivetrain
I have vibratoin at stop and I feel it from steering wheel. I was told motor mounts need to be replaced. However, front motor mounts was replaced on oct, 2010 and others were not. Also, I cann't observe any shaking on front and rear mounts and driver side mount. Vibration reduces when I put a gear into N or P. I can notice my battery, driver side head light, and a black hose passing above alternator are vibrating. Actually, timing belt was replaced on 60,000 and it is now 11,4000. Which one causes steering wheel vibratioin at stop? bad timing belt or motor mounts or transmission mount?

Thanks

Comments

  • bam-bambam-bam Council Member
    Neither.

    idle speed too low?
    misfire/ skip?
    any fault codes?
  • jkwanusjkwanus New Wagonist
    bam-bam wrote:
    Neither.

    idle speed too low?
    misfire/ skip?
    any fault codes?

    What is the proper idle speed for RT4WD auto trans?
  • bam-bambam-bam Council Member
    I'm not sure that I know precisely, but 750-800 rpm is about right.
  • jkwanusjkwanus New Wagonist
    It indicates the first white mark under 1 (1000rpm). I am not sure if it is 750rpm becasue of no number on it.
    Is it correct idle speed?
  • jkwanusjkwanus New Wagonist
    For the timing belt, manual recommends 60,000mile service schedule for 88-89 but it recommends 90,000mile for 90-91.
    Why do they suggest different timing belt service intervals although they have same engine?
    Will it be a problem if I follow 90-91 interval? Mine is 89.
    Thanks
  • wagodizzlewagodizzle Council Member and EDM expert
    you can easily go 90,000 on a timing belt.
  • 3rd4ce3rd4ce Council Member
    jkwanus wrote:
    Timing belt was replaced on 60,000mile, 2003. It is now 114000. Is it good time to replace timing belt, water pump and other belts?
    3rd4ce wrote:
    i have 161,000 miles on the timing belt in my 1996 Odyssey .. might get to it maybe spring time ..
    no big rush ....
    nope im still not thinking a timing belt with only 62k on it .. the belts are all made of similar rubber.. i would lean towards a tune up fuel injectors maybe ..
    how bad is the vibration..?? does it vibrate if your in PARK..
  • MOD_MAN_EXTREMEMOD_MAN_EXTREME Wagonist
    My '88 Wago feels the same but I just attributed it to the Wagovan being an old car.

    Whenever I shift out of park or it's at a light the car sorta just vibrates a bit (think like a cellphone in your pocket set vibrate), but I thought this was typical of most older vehicles.
  • jkwanusjkwanus New Wagonist
    3rd4ce wrote:
    jkwanus wrote:
    Timing belt was replaced on 60,000mile, 2003. It is now 114000. Is it good time to replace timing belt, water pump and other belts?
    3rd4ce wrote:
    i have 161,000 miles on the timing belt in my 1996 Odyssey .. might get to it maybe spring time ..
    no big rush ....
    nope im still not thinking a timing belt with only 62k on it .. the belts are all made of similar rubber.. i would lean towards a tune up fuel injectors maybe ..
    how bad is the vibration..?? does it vibrate if your in PARK..

    Thanks, I went out and observed it carefully. Actually, it is shaking in D and R noticeably like a massage machine. It also less shakes in P and N but it still vibrates. it is stronger than my cell phone vibration thou. Also, motor mounts look pretty old. It seems previous owner never changed it. Front head lights are vibrating and driver side is vibrating stronger than right side.
  • CRWagonCRWagon Band Wagon
    jkwanus wrote:
    It indicates the first white mark under 1 (1000rpm). I am not sure if it is 750rpm becasue of no number on it.
    Is it correct idle speed?

    I have the idle speed exactly on that mark, and it works perfectly... I´m almost sure that is 800 rpm
  • jkwanusjkwanus New Wagonist
    I replaced spark plugs today and my wagon vibrates much less. However, it still vibrates.
  • LayspeedLayspeed Wagonist
    I would bet it's your motor mounts. Have a good look at the other mounts that weren't changed.

    The rear mount I've seen on many Civics to be torn and one of the bolts are are a bitch to get at to replace.
  • MOD_MAN_EXTREMEMOD_MAN_EXTREME Wagonist
    Just to know since I'm a complete noob, how much do motor mounts typically cost and what's the average price going price to change them out?

    I don't have any of the equipment needed to pull an engine and stuff, so I would need to take the parts to a shop and have them do it.
  • moebiiusmoebiius Wagonist
    Sounds like you need to replace the mounts first and go from there bro
  • LayspeedLayspeed Wagonist
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Motor-Mo ... ccessories

    That's the rear mount...price might be higher locally wherever you're from. The other mounts should be simliarly priced. The labor to replace only one mount is 0.8 hours...ALL 4 of the mounts is around 2-2.5hours. So you can multiply that by the shop's hourly labor rate. Search my friend. Everyone was a noob once, but simple questions can be answered just by doing a tiny bit of research on your part.

    Or call up a few shops and get a quote.
  • MOD_MAN_EXTREMEMOD_MAN_EXTREME Wagonist
    Layspeed wrote:
    http://cgi.ebay.com/ebaymotors/Motor-Mount-1988-1991-Honda-Civic-1-5L-Rear-Automatic-_W0QQcmdZViewItemQQhashZitem2a0b3d10bcQQitemZ180577177788QQptZMotorsQ5fCarQ5fTruckQ5fPartsQ5fAccessories

    That's the rear mount...price might be higher locally wherever you're from. The other mounts should be simliarly priced. The labor to replace only one mount is 0.8 hours...ALL 4 of the mounts is around 2-2.5hours. So you can multiply that by the shop's hourly labor rate. Search my friend. Everyone was a noob once, but simple questions can be answered just by doing a tiny bit of research on your part.

    Or call up a few shops and get a quote.
    Thanks man.

    It's sure true that I've been asking some seriously noobish questions as of late. I guess it's what's left of my new vehicle owner freakouts getting out of my system. :roll:
  • jkwanusjkwanus New Wagonist
    My wagon still more vibrates in D and R than P and N. It less vibrates in cold condition. Also I observed rpm start to fluctuate accordingly when I turned on Hazard light. Is it just becasue weak alternator? Or alternator increases load on engine and pulleies start to vibrate?

    Any thoughts on this?
  • LayspeedLayspeed Wagonist
    Have your idle speed properly checked in gear and adjusted accordingly. The pulley's don't vibrate...if they do, that's not good! You say it vibrates less when cold, so when the engine is warming up? The rpm's are higher when it's cold so that could be why you don't feel it as much. Don't trust the factory tachometer have a shop take a look if you're that concerned.
  • jkwanusjkwanus New Wagonist
    Layspeed wrote:
    Have your idle speed properly checked in gear and adjusted accordingly. The pulley's don't vibrate...if they do, that's not good! You say it vibrates less when cold, so when the engine is warming up? The rpm's are higher when it's cold so that could be why you don't feel it as much. Don't trust the factory tachometer have a shop take a look if you're that concerned.

    Thanks. idle speed is correct. and when the enigne warms up enough, it more vibrates in d and R. Now I suspect a bad alternator, because recently I feel slow to start engine. Egine does not start immediately. Once I turn on all electic switches, the vibration increases. Can bad alternator cause vibration too?

    Thanks
  • SuperDookinWagonSuperDookinWagon Band Wagon
    I'm assuming you have an automatic transmission since you're mentioning Drive, Reverse, and Park gears. If this is case what you can do is perform a engine mount test. What you'll need to do it start the car, set your parking brake, hold the brake pedal with your left foot, put the transmission into Drive or Reverse gear, and rev and release, rev and release the throttle with your right foot (while still holding the brake pedal with your left foot!) while you get a friend to inspect all of the engine mounts. When your transmission is in Drive the engine will lift and rotate toward the front of the vehicle and when in Reverse it'll do the opposite. At the time of lift and rotation get your friend to inspect all of the engine mounts with a flashlight for cracks in the rubber and for them being completely broken. To replace the engine mounts you'll need a couple of hand tools, a floor jack, jack stands, and a wheel chock. Not only are you going to use the floor jack to lift and set the vehicle down onto the jack stands, you'll also use it to support the underside of the engine/transmission. You can actually support the weight of the engine on the engine oil pan though if you only have one floor jack you should only replace one engine mount at a time so the remaining attached mounts are holding up some of the load. Before using the floor jack to support the engine you should place a piece of wood on the floor jack pad as to distribute the weight a little more evenly. If you have manual transmission you can still perform this test though it's a little more tricky since you probably don't have three feet. If you trust your parking brake you can use just that, but I would recommend rigging up a piece of wood and wedge it between your brake pedal and seat so the front brakes are engaged since the rears don't really do much. Just make sure your friend is not directly in front of the vehicle and nothing is behind you. Oh yeah use a wheel chock!

    In regards to your alternator concern the best thing you could do without removing the alternator and bench testing it is perform a voltage output test. Use a voltmeter to perform this. Place the negative lead to the negative battery post and the positive lead to the nut on the alternator that attaches the cable from the alternator to the battery. I'm not sure what the exact specification is right off hand though you should see anywhere from 13 to 14.7 volts if your alternator is healthy. In terms of the vibration becoming worse when accessories are turned on, this is most likely due to bad grounds or possibly just the old wiring throughout the vehicle. Bad grounds and old wiring draw more current which in turn will put more load on the alternator. It will also likely drop the idle speed a little which will make the vibration more noticeable, especially if you have bad engine mounts. The issue of your vehicle having a hard time starting probably isn't your alternator since the alternator doesn't do much, if anything while starting the vehicle. You can actually start and run most vehicles for a short period of time without an alternator even installed, just as long as the battery is in good condition and fully charged. For your starting issue may want begin with getting your battery tested and then your starter motor too.

    I found a pretty good YouTube video of someone testing their engine mounts using the way I mentioned. As you can see the front engine mount is completely broken on the vehicle.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVwZHn6ISr4
  • jkwanusjkwanus New Wagonist
    SuperDookinWagon wrote:
    I'm assuming you have an automatic transmission since you're mentioning Drive, Reverse, and Park gears. If this is case what you can do is perform a engine mount test. What you'll need to do it start the car, set your parking brake, hold the brake pedal with your left foot, put the transmission into Drive or Reverse gear, and rev and release, rev and release the throttle with your right foot (while still holding the brake pedal with your left foot!) while you get a friend to inspect all of the engine mounts. When your transmission is in Drive the engine will lift and rotate toward the front of the vehicle and when in Reverse it'll do the opposite. At the time of lift and rotation get your friend to inspect all of the engine mounts with a flashlight for cracks in the rubber and for them being completely broken. To replace the engine mounts you'll need a couple of hand tools, a floor jack, jack stands, and a wheel chock. Not only are you going to use the floor jack to lift and set the vehicle down onto the jack stands, you'll also use it to support the underside of the engine/transmission. You can actually support the weight of the engine on the engine oil pan though if you only have one floor jack you should only replace one engine mount at a time so the remaining attached mounts are holding up some of the load. Before using the floor jack to support the engine you should place a piece of wood on the floor jack pad as to distribute the weight a little more evenly. If you have manual transmission you can still perform this test though it's a little more tricky since you probably don't have three feet. If you trust your parking brake you can use just that, but I would recommend rigging up a piece of wood and wedge it between your brake pedal and seat so the front brakes are engaged since the rears don't really do much. Just make sure your friend is not directly in front of the vehicle and nothing is behind you. Oh yeah use a wheel chock!

    In regards to your alternator concern the best thing you could do without removing the alternator and bench testing it is perform a voltage output test. Use a voltmeter to perform this. Place the negative lead to the negative battery post and the positive lead to the nut on the alternator that attaches the cable from the alternator to the battery. I'm not sure what the exact specification is right off hand though you should see anywhere from 13 to 14.7 volts if your alternator is healthy. In terms of the vibration becoming worse when accessories are turned on, this is most likely due to bad grounds or possibly just the old wiring throughout the vehicle. Bad grounds and old wiring draw more current which in turn will put more load on the alternator. It will also likely drop the idle speed a little which will make the vibration more noticeable, especially if you have bad engine mounts. The issue of your vehicle having a hard time starting probably isn't your alternator since the alternator doesn't do much, if anything while starting the vehicle. You can actually start and run most vehicles for a short period of time without an alternator even installed, just as long as the battery is in good condition and fully charged. For your starting issue may want begin with getting your battery tested and then your starter motor too.

    I found a pretty good YouTube video of someone testing their engine mounts using the way I mentioned. As you can see the front engine mount is completely broken on the vehicle.

    http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RVwZHn6ISr4
    Thanks, I tested it as you described. I noticed the engine wiggled and moved up a little bit. However, I am not sure which mount is defective. As I observed, the front side of engine moved up a little bit more in reverse gear. Does it mean that front mount is culprit?
    I also found clips that are very similar my engine movement. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=av2fK6K0QYI and http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=491qLEFZ ... re=related
  • SuperDookinWagonSuperDookinWagon Band Wagon
    If that's the case, there's a good possibility the front engine mount is the culprit. Though at the same time it could also be that both side engine mounts are worn therefore allowing too much play. You'll want to do a visual inspection of all of the engine mounts to confirm the condition of them. Look for cracks in the rubber or possibly even chunks missing from them. If it were my vehicle I would personally just replace every engine mount at the same time since they all have about the same life spans. Might as well have fresh mounts all around. Are you planning on keeping the car for a good amount longer? Because if you aren't I wouldn't worry about the engine mounts too much. If you were to do the mounts at a repair shop you're probably looking at spending at least $500 parts and labor if you're getting genuine Honda or OEM parts. Replacing the engine mounts yourself wouldn't be all that hard if you have a little automotive hands on experience or if you know a friend that does. It'll probably take you anywhere from 2-5 hours to do all of them depending on what kind of tools and experience you have.
  • jkwanusjkwanus New Wagonist
    Today, I replaced a front motor mount. After replacing it, I didn't feel vibration in gear R any more but my wagon still vibrates in gear D. Also, I could observe the engine was vibrating at idle. It was more than normal because I could feel it on fender. Is it still motor mount problem or anything else? Do I need to replace other mounts too? or only rear mount?

    Thanks
  • SuperDookinWagonSuperDookinWagon Band Wagon
    I would personally replace all of the motor mounts at the same time. A rough idle could be a ton of different things though. If your idle isn't steady you may want to take a look at your idle air control motor (IAC) because they do get clogged with carbon deposits and end up not operating as they should. When IAC's wear out or become clogged with carbon the idle usually surges up and down erratically and will stall the engine at stops or low idle if it's bad enough. Also look for any vacuum leaks (broken, cracked, or deteriorating hoses, gaskets, etc. throughout the engine). You may also want to look at your exhaust gas recirculation valve (EGR). If this valve is stuck partially open it will definitely make your car run rough and if it's stuck open wide enough it will just stall the engine. Essentially a vacuum leak too. You can run a test on the EGR valve easily if you have access to a hand vacuum pump. Just removed the vacuum hose connected to the EGR valve and connect your vacuum pump to the port on the EGR valve. Start your engine and apply some vacuum with your pump. As the vacuum increases the idle should become more and more rough and eventually stall out the engine completely. Since replacing your front engine mount made a difference in reverse. I think the best thing you could do to eliminate the vibration is first replace the rest of the engine mounts and transmission mount, then go from there into the mechanical aspects of the car if the vibration still persists.
  • jkwanusjkwanus New Wagonist
    SuperDookinWagon wrote:
    I would personally replace all of the motor mounts at the same time. A rough idle could be a ton of different things though. If your idle isn't steady you may want to take a look at your idle air control motor (IAC) because they do get clogged with carbon deposits and end up not operating as they should. When IAC's wear out or become clogged with carbon the idle usually surges up and down erratically and will stall the engine at stops or low idle if it's bad enough. Also look for any vacuum leaks (broken, cracked, or deteriorating hoses, gaskets, etc. throughout the engine). You may also want to look at your exhaust gas recirculation valve (EGR). If this valve is stuck partially open it will definitely make your car run rough and if it's stuck open wide enough it will just stall the engine. Essentially a vacuum leak too. You can run a test on the EGR valve easily if you have access to a hand vacuum pump. Just removed the vacuum hose connected to the EGR valve and connect your vacuum pump to the port on the EGR valve. Start your engine and apply some vacuum with your pump. As the vacuum increases the idle should become more and more rough and eventually stall out the engine completely. Since replacing your front engine mount made a difference in reverse. I think the best thing you could do to eliminate the vibration is first replace the rest of the engine mounts and transmission mount, then go from there into the mechanical aspects of the car if the vibration still persists.

    Thanks for your explanation,
    unfortunately, all vibration came back. The very wierd thing is that vibration disapper when I turn on AC.
    Actually, after oberving my wagon several days, I could summarize symptoms.

    Engine vibration, a little bit low idle, gas smell, fuel leaking from two injectors (not sure if from o rings or seal ring), poor gas mileage, soft brake pedal only when cold start after driving it turns to normal,

    I suspect bad injectors, vacuum leak (as you mentioned), or bad pcv.

    what do you think? please help

    Thanks
  • SuperDookinWagonSuperDookinWagon Band Wagon
    It could definitely be any one of those items you mentioned though it's most likely a combination of a few things. When the A/C is turned on there is signal sent to the computer that raises the idle so the engine doesn't get bogged down too much since the A/C is quite a big load; so it makes perfect sense that the vibration would lessen with your symptoms. Since you say you smell gas and see a gas leak (most likely contributing to your bad gas economy), regardless of if this is related to the vibration issue you're having I would highly recommend replacing the injector seals so you don't start a fire in your engine bay. It sounds like you're sort of having a low idle vibration issue more so than anything else too. Mainly because when the A/C is turned on the vibration seems to lessen. I would first check and adjust your timing before going any further into diagnosing your vehicle. It's pretty hard to figure out issues with vehicles without of course being able to see the car and more so if the vehicle isn't in tune. You can most likely rent a timing gun from your local parts store or just borrow one if you know someone that has one. It's very easy to adjust the timing on these engines. All you need is a 12mm box end wrench, 12mm socket with a short extension, a ratchet, and a timing gun. Check the timing first, if it's not within specifications loosen all three bolts on the distributor just enough so you can rotate the distributor and adjust accordingly. Tighten the three bolts and you're done.

    Does the state you live in require a smog test for registration? If so, does your car pass smog and would you be able to provide some numbers off that smog test paper? (CO2, O2, HC, CO, NOX)


    As for your mushy brake pedal upon cold start up this could be due to numerous things also. I would recommend performing a brake fluid flush to begin with and then go from there. As brake fluid ages it becomes contaminated with water since it's hygroscopic along dirt and rust. A brake fluid flush will also get rid of any air in the system and will eliminate one the variables with your concern. If a brake fluid flush does not fix the mushy brake pedal you may be looking at a new brake master cylinder (MC). There are rare occasions where the MC won't have any signs of a fluid leak, though the MC internally will be leaking. If fluid from the primary piston side of the MC is able to leak into the secondary side of the MC it will produce a mushy pedal. This may be the reason why when your vehicle is warmer the pedal becomes firm since when rubber seals become warmer they expand. Before looking too much into the variable of an internally leaking MC I would first perform the brake fluid flush.


    Linked below is a website that could help you better understand how a brake master cylinder works if you're curious.

    http://auto.howstuffworks.com/auto-parts/brakes/brake-types/master-brake1.htm
  • jkwanusjkwanus New Wagonist
    Finally, I almost fixed vibration on my wagon. Last week, my new pcv valve and reman injectors were arrived. today I pulled out all injectors and replace them. I also pulled out old pcv valve and I noticed it was clogged. After replacing all injectors and pcv valve, vibration almost gone.

    Thanks for all information and help!!
Sign In or Register to comment.

© Vanilla Keystone Theme 2025